posted December 28, 2007 12:41 AM              

And A.G. is it absolutely necessary for every Virgo Sun or Moon I ever worked with or talked with to revert to that inane, trite. over worked and under effective Socratic discussion style?

For gawd sake stop using comments as crib notes and have a discussion like a man. It is a cohesive, complete package. Do you know what we're talking about or don't you? If you need to refer back to my comments one by one, then you probably don't and should ask yourself why you are even having this conversation.
(And no, I don't care how your buddies and you or the debate team does it. It's stupid, and you were just taught to think it was cool by Western schooling. Discussion by sound bite. Whose stupid idea was that and how did I ever fall for it?)

What you might want to do is take a step back, take in the whooole thing and stop looking for errors in my logic like an early Richard Pryor digging through the carpet for crack..

It's simple. Do you want to continue to have this intellectual locker room "muscle-off" on a thread about dead little kids or do you think it would be more appropriate to move it somewhere else?

Or perhaps you'd like to forget about it altogether, since I don't see any heapin' helpings of Global Unity coming from this dumb back and forth. Do you?

I'm up for whatever you'd like, even if it's choice A..but I'd rather not.

Let the little kids rest in peace.

By the way, a Belated Happy Birthday. Glad you stuck around.

daf

P.S. Not to bag too hard on physcial immortality..but I think alot of us could use a fresh start.

Could you imagine doing THIS forever with the same players and the same attitudes stuck in the same gear?

A bunch of old immortals bickering over threads filled with the dead like some kind of Shakespearean witches.

(Lets out a bloodcurdling scream.)

A.G. : I put my response here to avoid bumping the thread. For the record, I do not now nor have I ever needed an EXCUSE to get out of any conversation that I choose to disengage from.

I'm not sure if YOU need a reason to walk away..but I walk away when I choose to. There are PLENTY of witnesses to that.

There's no need to convince anyone of anything, nor do I expect to.

Your tedious analysis of my words is for YOUR benefit only, and perhaps also for the benefit of displaying your mighty intellect in order that your ego might get its rocks off. I don't know..that's the common scenario, perhaps your story is different. I'll let this speak for itself though:

"I don't want to let you get away with too much"

Yea? Who are you? And what is it that you've assigned yourself the "guardian" of? The truth according to an Acoustic GOD?

posted December 28, 2007 02:17 AM            

Part of why I do this as well is because I don't want to let you get away with too much, and that's exactly what it would be if I let some of what you say slip. It's great that you have a high opinion of your judgment, but I want to see if it's really justifiable. If you're going to preach something that in some way doesn't make sense, then I'm going to make you defend it. I want to see if you actually have the logic to back it up, or if it's just a passionate fantasy.

Using the little kids to get out of the discussion is a bit much I think, and I point it out because I think you need to be aware that you try to use stuff like that as an escape from the conversation. This thread is not simply about dead girls in India. It's about attitudes of some Indians towards women. It is a serious issue, and that government minister is right in describing it as a "national crisis." To turn a blind eye to it is essentially to live the American way, and never give a thought to what happens outside of our borders. What happens in other parts of the world can affect us here. Reciprocally, Americans are free to pressure our officials to do the right thing where human rights are concerned on the global level. The awareness of what happens in that culture is not a liability. It's not useless. It's not pointless. Information is always a good thing. Discussion is generally a good thing.

So, yes, I will challenge people when I don't believe they're right. You've got to prove your own opinion's worth in my book. I don't want a song and dance. I don't want glossing over or cutting corners. I don't want diversions. I want you to know the reasons for your actions, and articulate them to me. I do realize that not all people can do this. Some people (and I'm not referring to you) are gifted with insight and good instincts, but don't really know how they came to the right answer.

Thanks for the Happy Birthday.

A fresh start would be refreshing with some people, but futile for others. Change seems to be a strictly personal thing in these parts. People have to choose to act in alternate ways. It's often a battle for me to hold my tongue, and hardly anything I say is superficially tossed out. I scrap bits all the time, and labor over being fair.

I can imagine it, though. I've seen glimpses of your scenario amongst fighting fixed signs. Relentless.

So, yes, we can stop this conversation if you like. We can also keep going if you'd like to further clarify your point. I think it's fairly obvious to everyone that we're not all out there saving the world every day regardless of whether it's our own neighborhood or not. Yes, more should be done. But there is no evil in being informed about what's going on in the world. Also...everything has it's purpose, so even if it seems we're using tragedy for entertainment, it could very well be for a reason.

posted April 10, 2008 12:43 AM              

Before we go to bed tonight..let's all pray..
and send waves of LOve and Light to ALL. ...

posted April 10, 2008 05:26 AM            

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You came here to pass the time. You frittered away a few minutes indulging yourself with the rest of us, in the luxury of using these girls' deaths as a "conversation piece."

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I find that quite offensive Daf. I could spend my time in other forums discussing how to get my laundry whiter. Instead I choose to come here to aquaint myself with issues other than those in my own backyard. I fail to see what the problem is. It doesn't mean that I don't defend issues in my own patch.

quote:

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I can't imagine an intellectual sign like Libra rejecting knowledge or being informed.

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Can't agree more AG.

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For gawd sake stop using comments as crib notes and have a discussion like a man.

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I say the world needs more women, India or anyplace, and I'm glad to have read this. Because the levels of testosterone being given off by Daf in here are truly frightening. I say read the thread title before you start making like a baboon and showing yer manly arse around.

Jeez.

Although the Richard Pryor thing was quite funny...

posted April 10, 2008 05:27 AM              

Ag, Daf isnt Cappy, cut him some slack
BTW, that is how everyone raects to things like these , in my country or maybe in many other countries.THAT is probably WHY these things go on in the first place.

heres my thoughts on this thread, when JW made this thread he had an Axe to grind

hence he only spoke of the existence of this .the social, economic, demographic background of the problem are conspicous by their absence.also missing is an attempt at presenting the problem in a manner non- Indian members could relate to the issue or even identify with it.
a million teens get pregnant every year in America. a majority of them terminate the pregnancy . reasons?
lack of financial resources, unwillingness to be burdened iwth a child at that age, social stigma of being an unwed mother....
the social pressures of being an unwed mother are identical to that of not having a son in India.
should a thread on the issue read " America kills more than half a million kids every year " ?
the thread gives gory details of how parents of new born baby girls kill them at birth.what was missing was the insight that these culprits are victims themselves. of abject poverty.most of these parents who kill newborn girls live in straw huts, unsure of when or if they will eat their next meal.having a child means skipping a meal or extra change of clothing.thats when they think, hell if i have to starve for having a kid, might as well do it for a boy, who will be my support when i m old. unlike a girl , who will leave me when she starts her own family.not to mention the dowry i shall have to pay.
while JW's thread spoke of dowry as a leading cause , it didnt give any details. Dowry is a hindu girls share of her fathers estate given to her at her marriage, so she and her husband can use it whenevr they need it, or to buy a home, or start a business etc.to the father it means having to shell of half of what u have before u r dead to a sinking fund investment that wont pay-off.

THAT is what Poverty does to a human being , it destroys sensitivity and bares u down to your survival instincts.

and makes it easy to drown a baby or strangle her when the other option is to starve.as for the middle class , the govt policy of single child families leads them to want a single male child, so they have more money to spend on themselves and their child, one who will be a financial cushion when they get old.
the Govt. measures have made the sex determination tests a crime punishable by law, and all doctors guilty of facilitating such abortions lose their licenses in addition to a prison term. in the impoverished areas the Govt is now paying for the upbringing of girls, irresepective of number to families who cant afford them.all these have led to a plunge in infanticide statistics by more than 75 %.

posted April 10, 2008 12:52 PM              

You ain't exactly right here .
Female foeticide is highest in Haryana followed by Punjab (both cash rich states and even Delhi has a big figure and i am very sure it doesn't have to do anything with money -atleast not in the way , you project it, i am sure bcos i understnd the prevalent mentality here ) and lowest female foeticide cases are reported from Bihar ( surprising but thats a fact )

Female foeticide has more to do with social reasons , less to do with economic ones .
i am not denying the role of economic reasons but they are not as significant as social one .

posted April 10, 2008 01:35 PM              

I do not think Jwhop
has an axe to grind...

I agree with alot of what Jwhop has to say. ...

posted April 10, 2008 01:55 PM            

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Ag, Daf isnt Cappy, cut him some slack

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