posted August 22, 2007 12:58 PM            

Physics and chemistry and a wide range of physicists, chemists, metallergists and demolition experts have debunked the bunko artists.

No one has come forward to present a unified theory as to what happened, how it was done or more importantly...why. Somewhere in all this bullshiit there must be a motive, a damned good motive which will stand up to examination. It's not enough to speculate without an ounce of proof.

Other questions conspiracy boneheads ignore is where the hell are those civilian airplanes...if it was a conspiracy and look alikes were used to bring down the towers and the Pentagon...where the hell are the airplanes which were identified as being the ones assigned to those flight numbers?

And, where the hell are all those passengers? Surely at least one of them would have surfaced in 6 years. I mean, even if they were detained, secured at some base, it's reasonable someone would have gotten away or gotten word out they are still alive.

And then, there must of necessity be at least 50,000 people who would have been involved either in the planting of explosives or the cover-up. Some of those people are Canadian citizens and Canadian military personnel...with NORAD. That doesn't include the air traffic controllers, their families, the US military personnel and their families who were alleged to have stood by and not reacted to the first strike on the WTC. Such a conspiracy involving such a large number of people is impossible to contain.

In all those people there appears to not be even 1, (one) patrotic American or Canadian who would speak up.

The entire conspiracy thoery is so much bullshiiit piled on top of other bullshiit...and it's being done for political purposes. So up theirs.

This is a previous thread on the subject. In this thread you will find the chemistry and physics involved in refuting the nonsense...facts... not to mention the facts about the structural decay of strength of steel as it's heated to various temperatures.

The WTC was held up by steel girders around the perimeter of the structures and also in the core of the buildings. It's the job of these structural elements in a building to hold the building up and to which the poured concrete floors are attached as well as the outside facing of the buildings.

posted August 22, 2007 01:30 PM            

There's a lot to read...and it's factual, scientific information and scientific conclusions...not conjecture, rumor and bullshiit from people who couldn't find their own ass if their lives depended on it.

posted August 22, 2007 04:58 PM              

Aza,
I have been thinking about those very same lines today! Coincidence?

posted August 23, 2007 12:41 PM            

So, it's a short step for some to be in a place where evidence running counter to cherished political beliefs doesn't need to be examined.

posted August 23, 2007 05:38 PM              

And maybe it never will be!

posted August 23, 2007 08:05 PM            

quote:

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No one has come forward to present a unified theory as to what happened, how it was done or more importantly...why. Somewhere in all this bullshiit there must be a motive, a damned good motive which will stand up to examination. It's not enough to speculate without an ounce of proof.

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Have you even looked at this? People have put forward many unified theories of what happened, some admittedly ridiculous, others not so much. The official unified theory of what happened, that 19 arabs, directed from a cave in Afghanistan, somehow defeated the intelligence and defense networks of the mightiest country on earth, seems to me to be toward the questionable side, but forget that.

Motive? Why did Hitler burn the Reichstag? Why did the US Military destroy its own ship in the Gulf of Tonkin? Motive? Look at history, for Christ's sake! For the sake of the argument, say that everything was square and there was no allegation of prior knowledge on the part of the government; cui bono?? Certainly not Afghanistan or Al Quaeda or Saddam or any of the other supposed evil Arabs who hate our freedoms!

That you'd even say that no one has suggested a motive makes me think this point isn't even worth arguing with you. Go back to sleep, America. The fact that the Patriot Act was written prior to 9/11 is only the tip of the iceberg, if you actually do some research instead of just blustering.

quote:

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In all those people there appears to not be even 1, (one) patrotic American or Canadian who would speak up.

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...who's not on CNN, you mean? Ever hear the interesting story of John O'Neill?

quote:

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Just two weeks, TWO WEEKS, prior to the attack, O'Neill had left his job with the FBI. O'Neill had quit because he believed that the Bush administration had stymied the intelligence agency's investigations on terrorism. O'Neill charged that it had done so even as it bargained with the Taliban on handing over of Osama bin Laden in exchange for political recognition and economic aid. In the ultimate irony, O'Neill had gone public with these charges at the same time that he was leaving the FBI to become the head of security at the World Trade Center.

"The main obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were US oil corporate interests, and the role played by Saudi Arabia in it," O'Neill reportedly told the authors of an explosive new book, Hidden Truth (Forbidden Truth in the US), by intelligence analysts Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie. Brisard met O'Neill several times last summer and reports that O'Neill complained bitterly that the US State Department - and behind it the oil lobby who make up President Bush's entourage - blocked attempts to prove bin Laden's guilt.

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So he leaves the FBI to work at the WTC. How ironic that 9/11/01 was his first day on the job!

Then take the put options and insider trading on targeted airlines, the no-fly warnings received by top government and corporate officials, the blocking of independent investigations, W199I, and the list goes on... This stuff has been in the major news networks; it's there if you want to see it.

Anyone who forms 'beliefs' about the world around them is an idiot - you have to be prepared to go where the facts take you, and to look at every fact as objectively as possible. While I think that there are some claims made by 9/11 'conspiracy theorists' that are plain stupid, there are simply too many questions to just write the whole thing off as for the tinfoil hat crowd.

How about the Pentagon, where the pieces of the crashed plane were small enough to pick up by hand, or the WTC, where the rubble formed a veritable mountain, but they still managed to find the hijacker's personal identification? Tell me, is the 'bonehead' really the person who says "Wait a second" when confronted with this information, or the person who swallows it without a second thought?

To just say that no intelligent person is questioning the official report is blatantly false. Look into it. There are government officials, academics, intelligence experts, plenty of credible people demanding an independent investigation of this.

posted August 24, 2007 01:13 PM            

How about this, how about you post even one coherent "unified theory" about the 9/11 conspiracy.

That "unified theory" would of necessity include Who, How and Why. It would also account for the missing aircraft and the missing passengers knotheads insist were not used or killed in the various attacks.

posted August 24, 2007 02:52 PM            

quote:

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How about this, how about you post even one coherent "unified theory" about the 9/11 conspiracy.

That "unified theory" would of necessity include Who, How and Why. It would also account for the missing aircraft and the missing passengers knotheads insist were not used or killed in the various attacks.

---

I don't subscribe to the "the planes were remote-controlled/there were no planes" hypothesis. Don't build a straw-man by focusing on the weakest, most bizarre, conjecture and then declaring it the extent of what the 9/11 truth movement offers. It's transparent.

But here is a great unified theory of who, how, and why.
http://911truth.tribe.net/thread/e5f79600-1eca-4ef4-a455-eeba39e28518

I highly recommend this read, regardless.

posted August 24, 2007 05:22 PM            

"An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child in this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland."

- George Bush?

No.

Adolf Hitler.

As he announced the f*cking Gestapo to the German people.

posted August 25, 2007 11:05 AM            

The CIA created radical Islam...hahaha, so the Soviet Union would attack Afghanistan and get mired in a Vietnam like outcome?

Hello, hello, hello

Jimmy Carter the boneheaded incompetent boob brought radical Islam to power in IRAN..not Afghanistan. Radical Islam spread from IRAN not from Afghanistan. Further, no one could have foreseen the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union...except those who were focused on the incompetent boob, Jimmy Carter but not as part of a long range plan. The Soviet Union thought they could get away with invading Afghanistan and Carter would do nothing...they were right.

None of that has a damned thing to do with 9/11 or O'Neill.

9/11 didn't happen just so John O'Neill could be killed. God, that's just the most moronic conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

posted August 25, 2007 01:52 PM            

quote:

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Jimmy Carter the boneheaded incompetent boob brought radical Islam to power in IRAN..not Afghanistan.

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Wait, what? So we never supported the Mujahideen when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan? It must be that goshdarn liberal news media that keeps saying this, then. Gosh, it's a good thing we have you to give us all the answers, Jwhop!

Oh, wait a second!

(On Al Quaeda) The origins of the group can be traced to the Soviet war in Afghanistan. The United States viewed the conflict in Afghanistan as an integral part of the Cold War struggle, and the American funds channeled through the Pakistani intelligence services supported native Afghan mujahedeen against Soviet occupation in a CIA program called Operation Cyclone...

Bin Laden has been called "one of the CIA's best weapons customers,"[41] and the U.S. support for the Afghan Mujihadeen "the model for state-sponsored terrorism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

quote:

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The Soviet Union thought they could get away with invading Afghanistan and Carter would do nothing...they were right.

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The mujahideen were significantly financed, armed, and trained by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) during the Carter and Reagan administrations, Saudi Arabia, the People's Republic of China, several European countries, Iran, and Pakistan (during the Zia-ul-Haq military regime). The Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was the interagent used in the majority of these activities to disguise the sources of support for the resistance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen

But I guess Wikipedia is overrun with commies, too.

quote:

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None of that has a damned thing to do with 9/11...

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Absurd statement. The ties that the U.S. Gov has to Islamic militant groups have nothing to do with the issue of Islamic terrorist activity on US soil?

quote:

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9/11 didn't happen just so John O'Neill could be killed. God, that's just the most moronic conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

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Well you have yourself to blame for it, then, as the article suggests nothing of the sort. You might realize that if you actually read it.

Here's what the article suggested for a 'Why.'

9/11 didn't just hide the opium trade. It gave the United States a free pass to invade Afghanistan and build the oil pipeline they'd been planning for years. It set up a race war. It set up a religious war. It opened the door for the United States to invade anybody it deemed was "harboring terrorists," internationally or domestically.

But O'Neill leaves the FBI due to his disgust at having his investigation of bin Ladin thwarted from on high, then, on his first day on the job, he's killed, supposedly by the man he was stopped from investigating?

You don't find that suspicious, huh?

quote:

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Hello, hello, hello...this is a movie... it's intended to make money.

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Um, no... You can watch it for free on the link at the top of the page. This isn't some gigantic profiteering scandal, Jwhop. That sounds like a conspiracy theory, in fact.

Do you agree with Tucker Carlson, Jwhop, who called the suggestion that rogue elements of the US Government might have been involved in 9/11 "blasphemous?"

I couldn't believe it when I heard him say that. Blasphemous? We don't worship our government... do we? I hope that's not the mindset of most Americans... because it sounds rather like fascism, to me.

Since 9/11, military spending has increased by $100 billion per year, nearly all of the Bill of Rights has been subverted, and we've launched two preemptive wars, killing something like 800,000 civilians, according to reports I've seen. We need to be DAMN sure we've got all our facts straight.

I've looked at all the conspiracy-debunking stuff I can find. I don't want to believe this for my own reasons; I have no political bias. But, taking what information I have, everything does not add up. If you're so sure you've got all the answers, well, great for you, but I think it is irresponsible to try to discourage people from asking the questions.

Here's an absolutely fantastic video on the subject, free on Google video. 2 million views, almost, already. If anyone can watch this and not finish with suspicions, I'd love to hear it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

Might have to make a topic just for it...

posted October 26, 2007 06:13 PM              

Is everybody in?
The ceremony is about to begin

posted October 27, 2007 12:05 AM              

have you guys seen this one?

posted October 27, 2007 02:18 PM            

It's a nice little con to throw together some bullshiiit and put it online...and have people accept it just as though it were gospel truth.

There's more truth in Bugs Bunny cartoons.

Every and I do mean EVERY piece of bullshiit conspiracy theory concerning the WTC and Pentagon attacks have been thoroughly shredded.

Of course, any one of you could prove it all wrong. All you need to do and all anyone has ever needed to do was to produce one piece of debris from the Twin Towers with bomb, explosive residue. That should have been simple...and elementary for those attempting to prove a conspiracy. It took months to clean up the site and the site had people working all over the area. Some from private contractors, volunteers, some from the federal government,some from the State of New York, some from the City of New York and some from the Port Authority of New York.

No debris...pieces of structural steel, pieces of concrete flooring, particles of desks, carpeting, furniture or any other components or fixtures of the Twin Towers were found to be coated with explosive residue.

Where's the proof? Explosive residue, the proof soooo easy to find because it would have been on everything on the site...if and only IF the building had been brought down by explosives.

Bomb residue...explosive residue and the chemical signature they each leave would have been the very first order of business to check.

posted October 28, 2007 08:15 AM              

Give the rest of my sheeple my love, would you!

LETS ALL BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY ON TV IS THE TRUTH!

MY GOVERNMENT LOVE AND CARE ABOUT ME!

GIVE ME BREAK!

HOW MANY DIFFERENT, INTELLIGENT PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN FACTS, COMPELLING EVIDENCE THAT THE EXPLOSIONS WERE USED TO BRING DOWN THE BUILDINGS, AMONGST SO MANY OTHER THINGS?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294

posted October 28, 2007 03:07 PM              

Just read about what Linda knew about Sally's disappearance. New information!!!
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000326.html

------------------
If only we could feel and understand all each others feelings....then EMPATHY and LOVE would be law in itself.

Perhaps......we (all souls)........who come, to incarnate upon this Earth.......
are all sacrificial lambs, in a sense

posted October 29, 2007 01:07 PM            

Can't have a bomb exploding without explosive residue.

Get a grip. People who would believe this 9/11 conspiracy crap would believe anything.

Get off the video tour and start checking some real scientific proof. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

Something you won't find at any of the lying con artist sites or their videos...any proof scientific or otherwise.

Hey, if you want to believe little gray men from Galactic Central are here to save human kind...be my guest. If you want to believe in shape shifting reptilian space aliens...be my guest...and you would have some company.

I object to leftist lying about the government, about Bush, about Rice, about Cheney, about Rumsfeld and about everything under the sun.

posted December 17, 2007 07:50 AM              

i love hot spit

here is to the illusion of the free media that reported the " Terrorist Attacks devoid of Govt Involvement "
read it in conjunction with Mirandee thread.
it will soften the blow for the Self = Proclaimed Champions of the American Administration

------------------------------------------
Starting in the early days of the Cold War (late 40's), the CIA began a secret project called Operation Mockingbird, with the intent of buying influence behind the scenes at major media outlets and putting reporters on the CIA payroll, which has proven to be a stunning ongoing success. The CIA effort to recruit American news organizations and journalists to become spies and disseminators of propaganda, was headed up by Frank Wisner, Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, and Philip Graham (publisher of The Washington Post). Wisner had taken Graham under his wing to direct the program code-named Operation Mockingbird and both have presumably committed suicide.

Media assets will eventually include ABC, NBC, CBS, Time, Newsweek, Associated Press, United Press International (UPI), Reuters, Hearst Newspapers, Scripps-Howard, Copley News Service, etc. and 400 journalists, who have secretly carried out assignments according to documents on file at CIA headquarters, from intelligence-gathering to serving as go-betweens. The CIA had infiltrated the nation's businesses, media, and universities with tens of thousands of on-call operatives by the 1950's. CIA Director Dulles had staffed the CIA almost exclusively with Ivy League graduates, especially from Yale with figures like George Herbert Walker Bush from the "Skull and Crossbones" Society.

Many Americans still insist or persist in believing that we have a free press, while getting most of their news from state-controlled television, under the misconception that reporters are meant to serve the public. Reporters are paid employees and serve the media owners, who usually cower when challenged by advertisers or major government figures. Robert Parry reported the first breaking stories about Iran-Contra for Associated Press that were largely ignored by the press and congress, then moving to Newsweek he witnessed a retraction of a true story for political reasons. In 'Fooling America: A Talk by Robert Parry' he said, "The people who succeeded and did well were those who didn't stand up, who didn't write the big stories, who looked the other way when history was happening in front of them, and went along either consciously or just by cowardice with the deception of the American people."

Major networks are primarily controlled by giant corporations that are obligated by law, to put the profits of their investors ahead of all other considerations which are often in conflict with the practice of responsible journalism. There were around 50 corporations a couple of decades ago, which was considered monopolistic by many and yet today, these companies have become larger and fewer in number as the biggest ones absorb their rivals. This concentration of ownership and power reduces the diversity of media voices, as news falls into the hands of large conglomerates with holdings in many industries that interferes in newsgathering, because of conflicts of interest. Mockingbird was an immense financial undertaking with funds flowing from the CIA largely through the Congress for Cultural Freedom (CCF) founded by Tom Braden with Pat Buchanon of CNN's Crossfire.

Media corporations share members of the board of directors with a variety of other large corporations including banks, investment companies, oil companies, health care, pharmaceutical, and technology companies. Until the 1980's, media systems were generally domestically owned, regulated, and national in scope. However, pressure from the IMF, World Bank, and US government to deregulate and privatize, the media, communication, and new technology resulted in a global commercial media system dominated by a small number of super-powerful transnational media corporations (mostly US based), working to advance the cause of global markets and the CIA agenda.

The first tier of the nine giant firms that dominate the world are Time Warner/AOL, Disney/ABC, Bertelsmann, Viacom/CBS, Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation/Fox, General Electric/NBC, Sony, Universal/Seagram, Tele-Communications, Inc. or TCI and AT&T. This is just the head of the octopus which has its second and third tier tentacles working together in unison or feigned division. This would include The Washington Post/Newsweek, The New York Times/Weekly Standard, Tribune Co., US News, Gannett/USA Today, Dow Jones/Wall Street Journal, Washington Times, Knight-Ridder, etcetera. A good site to visit for more information is Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, a public interest media watchdog group, at www.fair.org/index.html, www.fair.org/mediafiles/index.html and www.fair.org/extra/9711/gmg.html. Media propaganda tactics include blackouts, misdirections, expert opinions to echo the Establishment line, smears, defining popular opinions, mass entertainment distractions, and Hobson's Choice (the media presents the so-called conservative and liberal positions).