posted November 30, 2007 12:18 PM              

I'm getting some feedback from the open letter to Walmartifoxica.

I'm a little alarmed, (although for some reason not too surprised) at how many people
have bought into the whole them vs. us "rich people versus poor people" crap on both sides of the fence.

First off, there is NOTHING wrong with having money. My father has worked very hard for a very long time (around 40 some odd years) to charge a nice hourly rate to have money to invest in things that in turn have given him at least higher quality time when he has any at all to relax. (Workaholic...)

Secondly, not all poor people are jealous. That's absurd. I'm not jealous of anyone who has things. I've had things, I could have things. I choose not to have much more than i need. I've tried that lifestyle and it's not for me. I prefer to hone my appreciation for the things I have.

Thirdly, to the really really misinformed (although you know, that if you took the time to write me, I do care for you immensely but..cmon) who just said things like: "Merchants suck!!" and "Power to the People!" Hey, I appreciate your enthusiasm, please don't lose that.

But Merchants are the people TOO and they are a very logical way in which society saves itself time and resources for other things.

If 100 people needed say, the ore that's available in Bolivia, and each made a separate trip to get the ore that they needed, that would be 100 trips.

Each would spend who knows how many days out of their 100 lives taking the trip. Then they'd each pay a higher price, because the suppliers like bulk buyers, who help them turn their money around quicker.

By sending ONE person, a merchant, on that trip, society as a whole saves a lot of time and money that is then expended elsewhere into the common effort. The merchant buys enough to serve the needs of 100 or more people..and so pockets a fair portion of society's savings in the form of his profits.

(We won't go into how merchants keep prices from dropping through the floor by insisting on making a decent profit. Their greedy tendencies are actually fighting oversupply and deflation by stocking up when prices are low..keeping the surplus off the market and prices up. Look ma! Never read an economics book either. Zzzzz)

So don't be so hard on people just for being merchants..many work hard for the money and provide major benefit to us all.

And please, people of money..isn't it enough that working class slobs slave away their entire lives for a tenth of the money that their efforts bring on the open market?

Isn't it enough that in the end, it is people who hold wealth that benefit from their efforts? Do they really have to like it too? Think about it. Stop assuming that they're jealous, stop assuming they're going to rob you.

Even in the poorest neighborhoods, folks maintain a modicum of pride(all their own) that is offended by people quickly locking their car doors and reacting as though they had seen a terrorist just because a shabbily dressed person enters their "good" neighborhood.

Most of the lower middle class and poor aren't thieves, and I hate to say it, but many of those who are, simply grew up watching this system and deduced that it was all about self interest..as advertised by unfeeling capitalism gone stupid. So don't hate on them too much..they're just living the lie like some rich folks are on the opposite end of the economic ladder.

About Walmartifoxica:

No, I'm not really talking about whether someone is a business person or not. Or whether they are a government employee or not.

I'm talking about the people that can look someone in the eye and quote policy to screw them rather than taking the extra effort to solve the problem and maybe have a more equitable outcome, if not a solution.

It's not unreasonable for people to expect a company or their country to treat them as people. The people running the company or gorvernment should never allow it to become such a faceless entity that people's needs come after profits or privilege. That's when the detriment caused by a PARTICULAR entity is greater than any benefit derived.

If a business spreads the diseases of greed, indifference and ego in the name of making a buck, they are a blight upon the face of society and do not deserve the great privileges and power which society lends its leaders in the name of progress.

That's what I'm talking about. That goes for the media, business leaders and each and every one of us too.

Hope that clears things up.

posted November 30, 2007 07:56 PM              

At least you read. =D

Some folks are disegarding what I'm trying to say.

It's a simple idea. The measure of whether or not one is of TRUE benefit to society isn't how much money they bring into it, but how much they improve the quality of the lives within it.

The quality of society is not improved, and its people not served by corporations that ignore the actual humanity which keeps them running. These aren't mere resources. A decision that affects another human being's life should NEVER be a matter of dollars and cents.

So many people said that Walmertifoxica was vague. Ok, you tell ME who the people that treat people like this in business, government and media are?

Who exactly and specifically are the scumbag reporters that would exploit a familiy's tragedy for a story?

Who exactly ARE the business people that would lay off 600 people in November because the economy is in a slump and they want their Christmas bonus anyway? Who are these people? You tell me, because some are in your community. Some are in mine. Some are in hers. Who specifically should I address this to?

If you can point out..all of the politicians that would ignore the consequences of legislation that makes money for some while causing unnecessary suffering for others, perhaps a Dear followed by 6,000 names would be more appropriate?

It's impossible to name names. And it's impossible to point out who. But that's why we discuss this. That's why we figure out if there are people who are bothered by being treated as numbers and farmed as resources and if so, we find an equitable solution to fix it.

Noone's asking anyone to change anything except the way they treat the people they have power over.

And saying that we all have the same opportunities for education or welfare is like saying we all have the same opportunity to play ball whether it matches our particular lifestyle choices or not.

I personally think that institutionalized over-education has ushered in the death of imagination over the course of the last 120 year. I believe that we are seeing repeated ideas in theaters and books and on TV because we have stuffed the same ideas into so many peoples' heads for so long, and shut them off so well from the source of inspiration..that they literally are nowhere near as creative as their peers of a century and a half ago.

And yet the system as it stands, requires education through its institutions for success. That's pretty lame for a free country.

I think we should teach certain basic educational skills, then ask kids to perform treks, or lesson plans that involve exploring the world around them. No creating experiments to demonstrate principles, but actually viewing and working with those principles in the real world for legitimate purposes other than curiosity. This way you show the children the value of the education by relating it to real world tasks that matter. This gives a feeling of accomplishment since the task isn't just a make work or curiosity project.

But unless I am successful within a system of education which I don't believe in, I have no voice to change it?

So yea, the deck is stacked in favor of the status quo and I'm not interested.

posted November 30, 2007 09:11 PM            

quote:

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Who exactly ARE the business people that would lay off 600 people in November because the economy is in a slump and they want their Christmas bonus anyway?

---

Lay-offs are a natural reaction to a market slump. Do you honestly think that a company ditching people in order to stay in business is a bad idea? Should these "leaders" just let the whole business go if times get tough? Wouldn't punishing the whole crew be worse, than trying to make a cut and stay viable? I'm saying this as a person who's been laid off three times in the past year [twice right before Christmas], and as a person who has been given work by two former employers who have laid me off (one a privately-owned company, and one a large banking corporation). I don't believe you should address this to people who are forced to lay people off. It's an inevitable part of business oftentimes.

quote:

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perhaps a Dear followed by 6,000 names would be more appropriate?

---

Yes, of course it would be. Then those people would know you meant them in particular when you were writing, and would be able to respond regarding your misconceptions about who they are as people, and what their values are as leaders.

quote:

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It's not unreasonable for people to expect a company or their country to treat them as people. The people running the company or gorvernment should never allow it to become such a faceless entity that people's needs come after profits or privilege. That's when the detriment caused by a PARTICULAR entity is greater than any benefit derived.

---

Have you ever had a savings account? There is an expectation by the saver that the bank is going to live up to it's promises regarding earning interest. Corporations are banks, too. People give them their money in hopes of greater returns than other banks are offering. That's the bare-bones basics of the concept behind the stock market. So when a corporation makes a decision for profit's sake, it's also for the sake of people who have put their trust in the corporation's ability to make money. The money investors receive from these stocks can then re-enter the marketplace. The CEO investor who holds shares in a corporation experiencing a lay off can be the same CEO that puts the laid off people back to work. He possibly uses the profit from his stocks (of the company striving to stay viable) to fund the employment of the laid off. It's an (you could say ironic) interdependent circle of money.

Nothing is a simple proposition where big business is concerned. The decisions impact thousands of people. The "exploited" may understand their place, or they may not, but either way they enter in to the contract with the company voluntarily. If the conditions are unbearable, they are free to look for employment elsewhere.

quote:

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And saying that we all have the same opportunities for education or welfare is like saying we all have the same opportunity to play ball whether it matches our particular lifestyle choices or not.

---

posted November 30, 2007 09:44 PM              

They have just become an "accepted cost of doing business" that we accept because it's been done so often that noone is expected to show character and conscience in these matters.

If a lay off occurs and the management takes pay cuts. That's a necessary layoff. If the management gets fat bonuses at Christmas time right after a layoff, that's a human sacrifice at the Yuletide altar of Holiday Consumer Greed.

There is a direct relationship between a society's rate of progress and its tendency toward allowing its leaders and power brokers to dehumanize the masses.

And that's why it's alarming to me to hear someone compare a speculator's investment with the investment of hours put in by a worker in a factory for decades.

It's the sort of comparison that values dollars over human lives.

Someone who puts dollars into an investment hopes for big gains and also knows they may lose it all. (If they don't have enough to invest without suffering catastrophic losses, then they need to earn more before investing.)

But meanwhile, the days of their lives are theirs to continue pursuing whatever. Again, it's pretty cold-blooded to compare their investments of cash with the investment of time and labor put into the economy by the masses. Big money earned means big chances taken. The worker trades big money for stability and to yank it our from under him while still claiming the privilege of wealth?
ENRON illustrates that supposedly benign philosophy taken to an extreme.

Workers trust the company, the company gets fat the company can afford an overseas operation, or decides to outsource to meet investor expectations. Hardly worth years of ones life, and crap wages. No stability, no money. Wow, a double cluster...for the worker.(You'll have to listen to George Carlin to learn how that phrase ends.)

I'm not talking about all companies..not all government agents, not all media people either. Just the ones that treat people like..nameless faces with only calculable value under the LABOR EXPENSES/VOTER/INTEREST PIECE column.

It's not that it's not necessary for someone to come out on top in the deal, it's that those who do should recognize their place of privilege in society and should at MINIMUM resist the urge to dehumanize individuals simply because they deal with so many of them.

The deal was, the masses would work for peanuts, trust that your contracts were fair, and do the work you needed done.

Not, "Hey, I'm applying for a chance for you to screw me with legalities." (Most of the folks who tell you to read the fine print, have their lawyers do it for them.)

When I read your point by point Socratic analysis (boy am I familiar with that style), I can almost FEEL the robotic correctness and crisp intellectual machinery whirring away.

And see, that's the problem.

Logic is for dealing with machines. Empathy is for dealing with people and the situations we face when dealing with each other. I hope you find time to work on that. Good luck.

posted November 30, 2007 09:49 PM            

However, my MC is Aquarius, and my stellium is in Sag, and in the 7th. If all of this doesn't point to social, humanitarian justice, then I don't know what does. My Sun in Capricorn in the 8th, and my Virgo Moon can both tell you that in order to find an audience with the leaders you wish to address, you first need to understand the audience you're trying to address.

Perception is everything, and I don't think that putting your Walmartifoxica letter in front of the leaders it's addressed to is going to stir them into action. I think most of those leaders would and could come up with a myriad of reasons why you're not only wrong, but short-sighted, because for all those people you think they're screwing there are also a multitude for whom they are serving. You perceive it as screwing. They perceive it as serving.

Walmart is a prime example. Yes, Walmart is known for being pretty terrible to their employees. They're also known for shutting down small town business. Walmart survives, however, because people go there and show their support for Walmart's presence with their pocketbook.

posted November 30, 2007 10:03 PM              

I'm writing because seeds sown sometimes sprout. It is not now nor will it ever be my place to convince anyone of anything. But it is my place to say what I see, and experience and feel so that it can be made available to those who would embrace it..and make some, a variation or all of it their own.

That's all.

Then the occasional reader can maybe be spurred on to great things,new philosophies or perhaps simply think it's too vague and move on.

It's here to inspire or not. I'm a writer..that's what we do. Apologies for any unmet expectations.

posted November 30, 2007 10:52 PM              

When Wal-Mart shows a check for $50,000 given to a community charity and brags about having given $250,000 to the local community that year, I'm glad to see it.

But a typical Wal-Mart makes that in two days or less during holiday rushes. Are they entitled to it? Absolutely! But see, so are their employees, the "How cAn i heLp YoU?" people. They are entitled to reap the benefits. As Wal-Marts profits grow, employee benefits should grow. Its a bone thrown to them and any employer knows that's not b.s. It's cheap to keep reasonable, loyal people happy.

But they want to trim tens of thousands off of budgets annually to keep employees in current conditions or worse, when they make literally $50,000 or more a day depending upon the location.

All to meet the expectations of someone who called a broker and hung up, then went back to their life? Or did an E-trade? Naww...see that's just anti-social and cold blooded. (Not the investor..Wal-Mart. The investor did nothing wrong.)They've got more than a little money for making things better as profits improve.

Belt tightening measures should never become permanent entitlement to treat employees like replaceable components whose minimum requirements for maintenance are those prescribed by law.

Anyhow. I also like the moving Falling Down with Michael Douglas. To me he represents the anger people feel inside about this greedy way of life's mechanical nature.

The two main characters represent the different reactions to industrial life that are possible. One is humane, and tolerant and puts sacrifice and service above self. The other is self interested and although not necessarily evil, certainly too preoccupied with his goals to notice the people he is hurting. When he does, he often takes pause..but then moves on and finds himself doing it again. Until he goes too far.

The main-main character's over reaction to that cold greed and indifference seemed there to illustrate what might happen to society as a whole..that we all might become a little too goal driven and forget that we are dealing with people. D-FEN's reaction is one way society could go. He is agresssive, he lashes out, he is a one-man revolution who seeks his goal with a single-minded purpose and bends the environment to his will.

The detective character is very different. He approaches people with empathy and understanding. He is willing to sacrifice much, up to and including his livelihood for the people around him. He swallows his pride to achieve whats right and puts that single goal of helping others and pursuing whats right ahead of any selfish ambition. He is another way we could go. D-FENS ends up dead in the movie. The cop ends up a hero who tells his captain to perform some act on himself on live T.V. (His only real act of ego in the whole movie. It was softly spoken and he'd really taken quite a bit up to that point.)Good ending.

It's a very deep movie. Not enough people watch it.

posted December 01, 2007 10:05 AM            

We can go about a million times over as to why Captialism can or cannot work or how everyone should care for one another but then it fals short of accuracy when it comes to human tendencies. Progression comes though price and well unfortunately the main motivator for any human usually is self-percervirence. There is a reason why coomunism and socialsim don't work the way they are supposed to.

Though for the greater part, I fully agree with you and I totally support your position that you have (barring a few... random points.) I firmly believe in giving my employees the wages they deserve in accordance to their work and the effort they place upon doing something that they are assigned to and as a result, they are given bonuses upon my expense Lol! However I am willing to give up a bit of my pay if I can keep an extremely talented individual on my team.

posted December 01, 2007 12:33 PM              

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/008703.html

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000592.html

also, the enormous profits that the owners make almost all go directly into the bank. they spend very little of the money they make. no reinvestment in their community (arkansas). also, "trickle down" doesn't apply here either.

posted December 01, 2007 02:08 PM              

Looking at past history, as Pluto in philosophical Sagittarius reached this, the value of "Capricorn" was in the position of money and values. So as Pluto shifts into Capricorn, with the red carpet of Jupiter rolling out our opportunities, this transition will show our future investment that started in 1995.

Any changes in careers are getting ready to be the "blessing in disguise", if we look at this transition as potentially putting us in the right place at the right time.

posted December 01, 2007 06:53 PM              

Huh? Huh? Whadda ya say? Or is society a hamster wheel with no purpose? Are we here to better the human race or just do circles for no reason other than to go back and forth about who gets what?

It's a reasonable question if you're going to point out to me how things are...in reality.

Will they be this way for ever? If so, is there a way to opt out of society and maybe try something that makes sense instead of doing these economic circles for no reason?

(I mean without having consequences foisted on us by a society that SHOULD no longer have any authority once we've opted out. But you know how those "opting out of society" things go. People with guns and clubs show up to emphasize that it's not really an optional thing..huh? Sigh. Guess even human rights have their limits, you know?)

Seems like the same people that demanded a reason for my writing these things, that demand substance..do so in defense of a system that has no substance. Ok, I'll see your current bull---- and raise you by say...some hopes, dreams and a touch of naive idealism? I mean it's an even bet either way, there's nothing in the pot whether we fold or not. B.S. or dreams...hmmmm. I'll take the future with a happy ending please. (Is it dream? Is it Bull----?) ( What if it's B.S.?!!)

Of course, what if you feel that change is possible; that human being are progressing and becoming more evolved in today's society?

If that's the case, then what's wrong with my writings again? If they serve in any way to help spark that inner revolution in each of us? Wasted time you say? Hmmmm... yer preaching to the choir pal.

So let's stop doing circles then. Let's STOP wasting time then and start discussing how we'll change things. WE'll give these ideas substance! Good idea!

I second the motion!

No more manufacturing for the purpose of creating an economy!!! From now on human beings use their day to day existence to improve their relations with one another so that society becomes a mechanism for our evolution..not just a repetitious waste of our time!

I am so down with this -.- thank you.
You've made me so happy.

daf

I have SO been wanting to take up whittling..

posted December 03, 2007 06:15 AM              

If there are twenty pristine swans and one slightly frazzled black duck with his beak on backwards..

What's an open mind?

Accepting that discombobulated black ducks should look more like graceful white swans?

I don't have a problem with that.

Until I see a frazzled black duck walking away from the lake with his beak on backwards who found another way to face the problem.

daf

posted December 03, 2007 08:59 AM            

"I'm talking about the people that can look someone in the eye and quote policy to screw them rather than taking the extra effort to solve the problem and maybe have a more equitable outcome, if not a solution.

It's not unreasonable for people to expect a company or their country to treat them as people. The people running the company or gorvernment should never allow it to become such a faceless entity that people's needs come after profits or privilege. That's when the detriment caused by a PARTICULAR entity is greater than any benefit derived."

I agree with that statement 100%. We see it in government as well- as an excuse to get rid of someone that is not "conforming" that specific supervisor's way of thinking. It's even harsher when it is corporate and one can get let go over "policy" violations at any time.

On the other hand, there are those that will never abide by policy, feel that the job is a right and not a privilage and promotions are expected not pursued.

posted December 03, 2007 01:27 PM            

The people who are divisive in this society are forever attempting to institute the notions of "class warfare" which at it's root is envy...and greed.

It never occurs to these people that our society is structured in such a way that those at the so called bottom can and are encouraged to rise to the top. Many do understand that and take advantage of their opportunities.

Others promote the mistaken notion that those who are successful in life...and therefore have a richer lifestyle..got there by oppressing and taking advantage. Not taking advantage of their opportunities and working hard but taking advantage of others.

Using this mindset, it's only a short step away from declaring the rich and successful as "undeserving" and an even shorter step to attempting to take what they have earned away from them...to award to those who have not earned it.

I give you Comrade Hillary Clinton:

"I will take things away from you...for the 'common good'"...of course.

Straight Marxist theology of class warfare, envy and greed.

posted December 03, 2007 02:25 PM            

Hee hee.. yes, I live outsite of Pigtown (LMAO)... there are pig statues all over the place out there. Bear and I are actually about 15 miles from Post in a small town called Schwebenried (Swinging Reed or Branch). It's in the country and we have only two houses in our area. We live on the bottom floor of a large old house (almost 100 years old but fully updated) and our landlords live above us with their 3 dogs, 2 cats and a baby .. they also have 8 Sheep. They are cool as heck and the lady Kristine and I go for walks along the countryside a few times a week. It's amazing I love it here and I'm learning German ..