posted December 29, 2007 12:00 AM              

Is overpopulation a problem?
Are there other problems that are caused by overpopulation? Can we start out by simply naming some of them?

So..please, if it isn't too much to ask, your response to this query:

1. Is overpopulation a problem?

2. If so, what other problems might be caused by overpopulation?

It would be nice if we could determine if maybe overpopulation could be the Uber-problem whose Uber-solution might eradicate many of our problems.

Anyone?

daf

P.S. Brilliant topic, Xena-Lady. I'm hopeful that some great ideas will be shared here. Lord only knows how it will turn out. Ain't that awesome?
(Dontcha just love surprises? Oh wait..Fixed sign.. Ok, how about Mysteries? Dontcha just love a mystery..?)

P.P.S. For the record, I'm against both abortion and overpopulation. I don't believe that people having sex willy-nilly is "inevitable."

If our children were nurtured properly, they'd grow up to have many more things on their minds and hearts than having unprotected sex and making unwanted babies.

Unfortunately, sex is a great marketing tool ,so we POUND our people with it to sell more junk.

Then we systematically bore the crap out of each other with rules and restrictive environments and wonder why we end up looking for other ways to entertain ourselves..

posted December 29, 2007 11:02 AM            

I have heard there are plans afoot to reduce the Earth's population to about 500,000,000...of Earth's best and brightest...those who are spiritually, morally and intellectually mature and enlightened enough to deliberately kill off about 95% of us.

posted December 29, 2007 07:04 PM              

Such a big heart and beautiful brain to be wasted on so much ignorant ranting and stupid behavior.

Here's a thought:

What if overpopulation is only a problem in regions?

What if funding that would go into housing projects in the cities, were used to promote businesses and housing in smaller communities? What if some of that funding went into advertising and promotion of those smaller communities? What if we encouraged the SPREAD of our populations and industry into underdeveloped areas of our countries?

Would that be too...draconic for you? Would that make us Nazis? Had you determined that "overpopluation solution" = forced population control and then discarded discussing it altogether?

I'm sorry was that idea too reasonable for you? Should I have suggested forced abortions, sterilizations and genetic neutering? Would that have fulfilled your paranoid delusions about what I am..and what I believe?

I'm anti abortion and I don't believe that handing condoms out to young kids sends a very good message. I believe busy parents, broken families and our culture of self indulgence makes for bored, socially maleducated kids who do stupid things and produce children who end up repeating the cycle..

Am I the black evil guy? or the white evil guy JW?

Which shade of gray don't you like? The one that floats around only in your head, and assumes that I am like this or like that?

posted December 29, 2007 07:16 PM              

1. Is overpopulation a problem?
2. If so, what are other problems that are related to overpopulation?

I think overpopulation is a regional problem at the moment. Surrounding large cities are even larger areas of open land that are either undeveloped or underdeveloped..that might alleviate some of the problem.

A really big problem related to overpopulation is exactly what I hinted at in another post:

Politicians don't want less taxpayers in their cities..states..counties. Business people like the low wages in certain cities..states...counties.

Wages would tend to go up in cities as populations decreased. Wages would also tend to go up in small towns, as more business opportunities increased competition between them for the labor available.

See? And there's where the greed kicks in again, and you're NEVER going to get someone who mortgaged their house to pay for an election to give up a single piece of what they campaigned for. It's sad. Sad and frustrating.

I think I'll go write a letter to my congressman and make sure one of his aides has a really bad attitude for the rest of the day.

posted December 30, 2007 12:39 PM              

This place has an almost joke-like reputation around Lindaland(not totally deserved or undeserved) of being a dumpinghouse for bickering, arguing and other "unseemly" spilling of negative energy. This is the cage in which Lindaland hides it's most abrasive offenders apparently..least that's what's been going around for..ohhh I dunno...since I've been here? (5 years?)(You did notice that they were moving all of the highly argumentative posts from other forums to yours...right? Regardless of subject matter? Clue.)

Anyhow, the question is up there. You know my opinion. It's one subject..there are tons of others. You people have been doing this forever in here. You know what you want to discuss. But for gawd sake..can someone..please discuss something?

REgardless, this is your home forum. Far be it from me to tell anyone what to do, or how to do it.

But it hurts guys. Because not only are some of our most "abrasive" personalities in here doing circles in this crap..they also happen to be some of our most brilliant minds.. If all of you smart, educated, witty people can't find any ideas for bringing people together..what chance do even EDUCATED people of average intelligence stand of finding Global Unity? (Care to wager odds on you guys based on what most of us have watched for years in here? I'd take that bet.)

What do you have? All of your thoughts about me, people like me and whatever it is you believe we stand for aside...

What do you have besides a bunch of bravado and words used as weapons to dissect another's ideas..disassemble their beliefs and hand them back to them on a tray with a smile on your face?

I think it's obvious. You're all fiercely loyal. You're all decidedly intelligent and you're all well gifted with words. And I truly believe, that you all have a burning desire to help the underdog.

The world is the underdog..

Global Unity. That's the goal. Global Unity. You're smart, you figure it out.

posted December 30, 2007 01:52 PM              

By doing the homework I mean, let's take how many people we have in the world (a census) and divide that by the amount of actual livable earth we have, no lakes, no high mountains, no swamps , and from there let's come up with a mesurement of how much each person deserves.(equally)
Not only that but taking those numbers in consideration we would have to figure out how much land we need to grow food and raise cattle etc

So, see this would be a great exercise to figure out how much land each human deserves in a fair way.

Now let's compare those numbers to what actual over populated cities look like.

posted December 31, 2007 09:33 PM              

It would just be interesting to note how much population congestion could be relieved, by simply convincing people to move to urban areas with lower population densities.

City living for people that love city living..but without as many of the harmful side effects of overpopulation.

Again, cool idea. Could you let us know when you come up with anything?

posted January 01, 2008 05:09 AM            

Yes it could be if our supply does not meet demand.

I think its possible to land 6 billion people from all over the world in to state of Texas. But then the problem becomes how do we shelter, feed, clothe them.

2. If so, what other problems might be caused by overpopulation?
If the farmers continues to meed the demands of a growing population, theres a danger of soil erotion. Nature needs time to heal or repair itself.

Overpopulation also creates constrain on delivery of clean water to housings.
Do we have the technology to provide water to an increasing population? Do we have the technology to dispense the sewage cleanly?
Our car making technology has become so great. But our sewer technology is not so great and lacks in so many cities throughout USA. It requires capital. And already people are complaining about rising water and sewage taxes.
I could go on and on. Just throwing a cent for now.

posted January 02, 2008 11:06 AM            

It's also true you see huge problems with every facet of our society..civilization.

How does one get so out of step with the rest of the humans in their own country.

Seems to me Daf you had to have worked damned hard...and overtime too.

There are for some, the illusion the glass is neither half full...nor half empty. The glass is simply empty..period.

If I were...God forbid...looking for a guru...I'm not...but if I were, I certainly wouldn't be looking for a self appointed guru who is out of touch with reality....or who thinks logic, reason and facts have no place in the decision making process.

As for your comment this forum is like a joke around LindaLand Daf...what the hell are you doing attempting to spread the gospel of Daf among the heathens of GU?

posted January 02, 2008 01:17 PM              

I wonder how something like that could be used to say, predict where resources are most needed vs. most available and actually provide suggestions or up front recommendations for alleviating supply shortages.

Like I said, just a thought.

I'm still working on the calculations to determine what a ballpark average number of citizens per city would look like if trends could be introduced that might encourage people to move to less densely populated cities. (Perhaps by providing tax breaks to businesses and individuals..not sure how that would work.)

posted January 02, 2008 05:00 PM            

>>>I wonder how something like that could be used to say, predict where resources are most needed vs.
most available and actually provide suggestions or up front recommendations for alleviating supply shortages.

It is used every where but we are not aware.
Entire car manufacturing industry uses software that provides accurate forecasts of how many and what parts to produce.

>>>Isn't there logistics software already available on the market for tracking supply/demand and automatically generating orders where needed?

Yes there are plenty of software. SAP is the worlds largest business software that is used by all big giants of the world in the energy,
automobile, telecommunucations, utilities , etc industry.

And I do like the idea of sending people to remote areas. But of course we must not force them. They must take it upon them nauturally. Many new immigrant doctors have no choice but to go to such places to complete their residency. We must ask the government to send the new immigrants in the IT (information tech) area to such places But with IT we can't do that as most businesses are headquartered in dense towns. Perhaps local people migrate based on job availability. And I have seen state governments providing incentives to business who take those challenges.

Jwhop - Oflate, why do you so often bring guru when we discuss the problems of the world?
Perhaps you bumped in to bad gurus.
No guru will say that what you said. Or its you who reads those words based on your own make up of mind.

Jesus said give whats due to caesar and give whats due to God. He made a clear difference on how we must live. I am not sure if those was what Jesus said. how does one tell? Faith?

Its possible for a developed spiritual person to keep one leg on Gods kingdom and the other in this world. But for ordinary human beings its difficult not impossible.
Perhaps Jesus is not aware of modern issues that men face. What if discernment of any kind a crime? why was immigration department seperate from dmv in the past and now its not? Why did it take America so many years to come to an understanding. I don't blame 'em. Everything is evolving slowly. by trial and error . Way to go. Now tell me is the material world seperate from God? LOL That Jesus quote is outdated or perhaps misconstrued by people.

We have to act based on our ability and capability. When we can no longer do what we must then God/Universe takes over. Thats intuition not intellectualism.

Just as a physically healthy america is a productive america. Same way a spiritually developed america is a better america.

Spirituality empowers one to look at root cause of issues. In the past people would only solve issues at surface level. Spiritualiy helps one to go beyond intellectualism. To have that special insights which is not based on reasoning but based on existence. The world always honors dead people. The world always acts based on past. Vision is not based on intellect alone. Having vision with clarity is what seperates the leader from the rest of the herd.

And materialism, spiritualism, etc are all just label invented by mankind to make a case. The west has traditionally been an intellectual society. The east has access to esoteric teachings of the inner workings of human being and cosmos. The two must meet. It is time. History shows Europe was sleeping a long time. Counting was introduced in the west by Arabs who used to travel far east including India. India gave nothing to the world. LOL. I mean the first known symbol of zero was found to be used by indian mathematicians. When Napoleon was in China. He was awestruck. He is quoted to have said the world is safe from a sleeping dragon. Can't remember his exact words.

There is fear of coming changes. Most americans are insecure because of growing immigration. It is a problem and it can be solved. The population of America is not that high. Its only 300 million.

posted January 03, 2008 01:41 AM              

You mentioned remote areas and although it would be nice to also have our populations sort of..diffuse into those remote areas.

Still, what I had in mind was all of the smaller cities surrounding large cities. All of the empty space between major cities.

Interestingly enough, I was reading about a statute in Virigina that forbids the formation of a city within any county whose population exceeds 1,000 people per square mile. Or something to that effect. (An early attempt at FORCING people to spread out?)

It's all very interesting.

posted January 17, 2008 04:45 PM              

He said that getting beat up or robbed was an every other day occurrence. This was strange to both of us, because after 8 years of living in Mexico myself, I'd been involved in only 3 incidents. The way it sounded, South Chicago is tamer in comparison.

How do people's attitudes deteriorate as a result of living in closer quarters? In what ways do their attitudes improve? What do studies of overcrowding in the lab seem to suggest?

Is Overpopulation..or more specifically, overcrowding..a problem? And how would we deal with it..given the chance? (Barring forced procedures and practices.)

What problems might be introduced by reducing concentrations of people in overcrowded areas?

I was an engineer for 12 years. As far as I know, this is how you go about determining whether or not there is a problem that might need to be solved. We all ask questions and provide ideas. No one criticizes until all ideas are on the table..then we poke at each idea..firmly but gently.

These are also the first steps to solving any problems that might be found to exist.

As far as I can recall it is the only way involving multiple people talking to one another that I know of which produces results more often than not.

When engineering meetings degenerate into debates that produce point-counterpoint argument rather than useful input, we usually break them up, because they are a waste of time. They are also usually harmful to team morale. (And curiously, quite often associated with office politics..not the subject at hand. Oh man if I had a dime for every time. Sheesh.)

For those of you not familiar with the process of people getting together for constructive discussion, we called it brainstorming.

Criticism is usually discouraged during the initial stages of the process, because most people whose ideas aren't criticized, tend to produce more, better ideas.

quote:

---

The key to successful brainstorming is to withhold criticism until the group has exhausted its creativity. Criticism can be very difficult to resist.. But criticism at this point will kill creativity. In order to avoid the embarrassment of being criticized in front of a group, people will simply keep their ideas to themselves.

---

quote:

---

..stress before the brainstorming begins..no criticism of ideas during the brainstorming..

---

quote:

---

..in most cases, someone will ignore this prohibition a few minutes after the brainstorming begins. As soon as that happens, stop the criticism...or the brainstorming effort will be a waste of time.

---

Directing criticism at individuals involved in a discussion hampers the communication of information by them and is an almost sure way to stop the free exchange of constructive ideas between the parties involved. That's a proven fact.

It's by this very mechanism that STRONG, CONSTANT criticism can become its own form of censorship, breeding apathy far beyond the intent of any critic..you'd think.

So...with all of that in mind:

Does anyone have any thoughts on overpopulation or overcrowding?

What are some issues they may cause, what are some benefits? Are they real phenomena or just possible ones?

posted January 19, 2008 01:45 AM              

since u are NOT one of the best, i guess there is nothing to worry about

seriously JW , there is no shame in therapy .

posted January 19, 2008 10:56 AM              

Venus, your input is valued here. I mean that very sincerely, particularly since your countrymen and you understand issues of overcrowding so well.

Please help us to maintain some amount of civility by not engaging in (veiled)insults or responses to insults? Please? It has to stop somewhere. I can only stop myself. Please. Help.

By the way, has India tried any..population diffusion experiments? Where they..enticed people and industry from densely populated areas to less populated regions with incentives? I'm curious to know what they found out. (If it's been tried, that is.) Thanks again for stopping by.

TINK, back to your thoughts on city conditions. I wish you'd continue with that train of thought. (If you're so inspired, of course.)

It's quite revealing, actually. Having grown up in a big city myself, yea..I understand.

We all climb to the top of the buildings once in awhile to catch a glimpse of the sky. We all know where a tree grows that doesn't live like the others. Just one. It's all we have. Someone stole the sunset from us and charges us to see it now. Yea. Are there others who feel like that? (I mean, admitting that we dig the convenience, night life and the great food. What aspects of city living might add to any problems caused by overcrowding?)

For the record, this thread can go in any direction we like, and the more ideas we throw on the table, the bigger and more complete our picture of the issue should become.

Eventually, we might see together what we've been missing individually. (Regardless of what that turns out to be.)

I can't wait! I'm so excited.

posted January 20, 2008 04:23 AM              

never started it, wont ever start it

" India tried any..population diffusion experiments? Where they..enticed people and industry from densely populated areas to less populated regions with incentives"

yes and yes. a lot of industries that are labour intensive receive trade and fiscal incentives IF they set up facilities in the poorest states, which a lot of times are most populated. its not so much about population control as much about ensuring all ststes in our large country have homogenous economic growth.
THAT automatically avoids migration of labour to the big cities and industrial areas.
population is always an ASSET , if productively applied.population planning is an important government function in all third world countries , who have an abundance of cheap labour. that is not to say a superpower should avoid the exercise.
what is our most pressing problem however is that the economic growth in our country is lop sided, geographically and demographically.

posted January 20, 2008 03:20 PM              

Really I was wondering if they'd enticed business and people from densely populated areas...into reestablishing themselves into LESS densely populated areas.

By the way, I'm sorry that someone offended your country. Perhaps called it backwards or some such nonsense. I happen to know that India is one of the world's premiere nations for innovation in Information Technologies. Everyone there should be proud of your achievements.

Anyhow, assuming that no one has tried all solutions. What are some other approaches that might be taken?