posted February 05, 2008 09:14 AM              

Arbeit Macht Frei: "Work makes (one) free."

posted February 05, 2008 09:16 AM              

This is not the Nazi Amerika you are looking for.

[My thought at the time: Noooo. It's the socialist Amerika I WASN'T looking for..then happened to stumble upon while paying attention.]

Another Response:

you're not surrounded by an iron fence, you're surrounded by your mass media and your mass entertainment. your mediocre education, your ****** job and your ******* war. IT'S A PRISON FOR YOUR MIND. now go kill yourself in youtube so we can all watch. go!

posted February 05, 2008 09:20 AM              

The promise is that you will work hard, play by the rules and be something BESIDES exploited and lied to for doing so. If that's not the promise...then well..besides the physical barriers, where's the big difference in slogans?

The purpose of both is to keep large masses scheduled for exploitation and subsequent disposal so busily engaged in trying to reach some "goal" that they stop being outraged by the nature of their abuse and instead focus on "achievment" within the system that abuses them.

Are the differences so glaring as all of that?

Not really, but because taking our direction to its ultimate conclusion in words is such a shock to the average belief system, that denial sets in...

posted February 05, 2008 09:22 AM              

I do agree with you dafremen- that german slogan has great weight in its meaning for me (being one of the member's of the tribe, the details/history/images/stories of the jew's persecution in nazi germany was shoved down my throat, burned into my eyes a la a clockwork orange)- and the sickness and sadness of 'the american dream' is pressured from all around me by my family, peers, etc in this city of lost angels.

Another Response:

Daf: "The promise is that you will work hard, play by the rules and be something BESIDES exploited and lied to for doing so."

And what is the lie? Unemployment is low. The vast majority of able bodies are gainfully employed. Opportunities for education and training are abundant. If you do not care for your particular employment, you are free to seek another job. You are free to seek education for a better job - regardless of race, creed, or gender.

What IS the lie? The lie, it seems, is one that we have told ourselves, and that you will find nowhere in that promise. The lie is the nature of "success". If you are expecting a posh life of luxury, you're likely to be disappointed.

Success is far simpler - steady income such that you can provide for the needs of you and your family. Food, shelter, clothing. Success isn't found at work. Success is found in your heart. Success is friends and family. Work is just work. If you think success is found in business, you are not chasing the dream. You are chasing the lie.

Daf: "The purpose of both is to keep large masses scheduled for exploitation and subsequent disposal so busily engaged in trying to reach some "goal" that they stop being outraged by the nature of their abuse and instead focus on "achievment" within the system that abuses them."

Like I said...

Daf: "Are the differences so glaring as all of that?"

Actually, **** yes, the differences are that glaring. Should you have missed them:

We do not have a police state. There are not members of the standing army, armed with M16's, outside on the streets.

We are free to speak our minds in public, even if what we speak is an opinion directly opposing the government.

We are free to travel without getting approval from and showing cause to government officials.

We are not burning warehouses full of people alive because they are Jewish. Or black. Or gay. Or for whatever difference you care to cite. This just isn't happening here.

To suggest that corporate greed is equivalent to this sort of oppression is disrespectful to those who have ACTUALLY SUFFERED this sort of oppression.

To be fair, I believe that a great deal that has been done by the Bush administration is completely counter to the ideals upon which this nation was founded. Spying on citizens, massive black holes of secrecy, the whole smell of "we're above the law", the political homogenization of agencies that should not be politicized (see gonzales and the DOJ)... I could go on.

posted February 05, 2008 09:22 AM              

(That's because for the most part, we are following the rules that have been established for us. The farmer doesn't beat his livestock until they try to sneak under the fence. Let's flash back to Kent State where Armed National Guardsmen killed 4 students, 2 of whom weren't even protesting at the time. I believe they had their rifles out, I'm not sure if they were M-16s. I can also show you a picture of the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention, where the people gathered to protest there were assailed BRUTALLY for speaking out in a manner that was considered threatening to the establishment and its agenda at the time. If that isn't enough to suggest that we live in a growing police state, add the Tazer death a year and a half ago in LaSalle, Colorado of a 22 year old "suspected" of growing pot in his backyard. After he ran and was tazered to death by the officer, a subsequent investigation revealed that the officer's dash camera had "malfunctioned." Noted in the report was the fact that all stops prior to the one in question, and all stops after the stop in question...WERE recorded by the camera equipment. The officer was cleared of all charges. Bush also passed ANOTHER bill extending the ability of law enforcement to wiretap without a warrant. Again, no suggestion of a growing police state there.)

"We are free to speak our minds in public, even if what we speak is an opinion directly opposing the government."

(Not true. You are free to speak your mind in public if you have a permit to do so, otherwise for as long as it doesn't violate any local "decency" or "disturbance of the peace" ordinances, which can and are liberally applied in many if not all cases where you have no permit and the mainstream doesn't want to hear your message.)

"We are free to travel without getting approval from and showing cause to government officials."

(Not true. Travelling across the border into the U.S. ALWAYS begins with the question (asked by a government offical):

"What was the purpose of your visit in (insert the name of your vacation destination here.)"

Always. You must produce identification upon demand and that information is logged. And on more than ONE occasion, an out-of-state plate on a hoop-dee car has been pulled over simply to determine what the "visitors from out of state" are up to.)

"We are not burning warehouses full of people alive because they are Jewish. Or black. Or gay. Or for whatever difference you care to cite. This just isn't happening here."

(No, of course not. We've determined that we can get much more from them by keeping them alive like livestock. We've also determined that the more ethnic groups we have at each other's throats, the easier it is to keep them from uniting against a common exploiter.)

To suggest that corporate greed is equivalent to this sort of oppression is disrespectful to those who have ACTUALLY SUFFERED this sort of oppression.

(That's absurd. A generation suffered horrible abuses at the hands of deluded maniacs, this is true, but you would compare 6 million people's deaths to the wholesale re-education of BILLIONS of minds in order to persuade those minds that selling out their lives in a factory is achievment? (or a sales floor, or a warehouse, or a cubicle or an office...sure change jobs, that'll make it better...that makes it freedom). We've sold out the freedoms of BILLIONS of future Americans for "security", and you would DARE to compare the suffering of 6 Million for 8 years to the tragically wasted lives of hundreds of MILLIONS of living Americans, hundreds of millions of dead Americans and BILLIONS of future Americans who don't even have the SATISFACTION of looking their oppressors in the eye? That have no idea they are even being exploited? The victims of the Nazi Holocaust were certainly the most stoic, heroic and maniacally treated of our human tragedies...but to compare the tragedy of their dead...with the plight of our living? The Jews had the Allies on their side to liberate them...what mighty force do those forced into public schools for re-education have?

The Jews had the solidarity of their faith and their suffering to bind them together. We have been denied even that. We are solitary individuals fed on the notion of rugged individualism to the point that we don't recognize unity unless told to..(ala 9/11 patriotism.))

I really don't want to have a discussion with you, rational or otherwise.

I'm finding it hard to believe that I've wasted so much of my life going back and forth with people about their opinions that I don't agree with.

I don't care to convince you, and the fact that you're set on convincing (me? yourself?) someone, just shows how little you value you own time.

I don't know you. You don't know me. We each spoke our piece and now we're wasting time here.

posted February 05, 2008 09:24 AM              

to me, it sounds marxist, and in france at least, even though now it's seen as an idea from the past which didn't manage to live up to the expectations it created, it has had a bigger echo than in the states. at the end of WWII, around half of the french agreed with this ideology. and in the world at large, marxism had a huge attraction. (i talk about the theory created by marx here, not the leninist or maoist or stalinist experimentations.)

in the 50's when european powers were forced to grant independence to their colonies because they couldn't maintain control after the war, many arabic countries were attracted to this theory because it supported the idea that nationalist leaders could develop progress in the interest of all. as opposed to capitalism.

so i personnally think that marx's theory is very anvant-garde. (again i talk about the theory marx invented not the actual implementation) it's still today at the core of every modern theory emerging such as post colonialism or postmodernism because it gave an insight that so far, before marxism was invented, had never been exploited. it helped to realise that the very process of how history is recorded is intrinsically biased and serving some purposes. and the same with how society create it's principles (or don't create them for that matter). to be clear, marx shows how the ruling class hold a grip on society by controling it's own abilities for self analysis.

having said that, one of the major problem of this therory for me, is that they took the economic view a bit too far. marxists are usually atheist and i think that's a flaw. they don't try to transcend the condition of the material world through spirituality but through economy and its control, towards universal ideals, but materialists.

so for me, the great mistake in this theory is it's lack of spiritual emphasis as a way to transcend material struggle.

posted February 05, 2008 09:39 AM              

I'm a die hard American..to the bone. I believe in that same vision of brotherhood and liberty which somehow degenerated into this distorted mess.

I believe this is the most beautiful country in the world, and that it's people should be living in it...not slowly and mechanically dying in it while the system figures out how to keep them alive longer so it can squeeze more out of them. (Raise the retirement age again anyone? Raise the age at which you recieve your benefits anyone?)

I served in the military during the first Gulf War, and feel for every single one of my shipmates(service men and women)..whether they like what I have to say about the way we are living in America these days or not.

However, in this country, we were supposed to speak out when we saw abuses by our government or the powers that be.

I won't stop..I have a duty to continue speaking out for as long as I believe something needs fixing.

I'm an American and I LOVE America. I just despise the way we're running it and exploiting each other.

Forced to exploit your fellow man..be exploited yourself..or starve.

posted February 05, 2008 01:26 PM              

I loved what you wrote. I think Marxism is...as you suggested, a bit too material in its approach. And you could feel that in the obsession with land and wealth distribution. Where Marxism failed, as most of our ideologies do, is in its US vs. THEM approach. There is no US and THEM. There is a society that encompasses ALL of its people.

No permanent solution to our human dilemmas can pit us against each other. By creating division from the outset, these types of philosophies ensure their own eventual collapse through internal conflict.

Had Marxist "social integrity" principles been carefully developed over years and without alienating the wealthy, the wealthy would eventually..slowly have relinquished much of their assets simply through the change in social attitudes about hoarding and such that surrounded them. Those wealthy landowners whose attitudes didn't keep up with society's would eventually die out, leaving their assets to heirs with more contemporary ideas (ie..the "new" way of thinking.) Finally there would be some that left the country/society for another place where their views were closer to the norm. Nothing wrong with that.

No government regulating body would be needed.

In fact forcing that sort of change almost ENSURES there will be a faction that fights against it.

Seeds. Grass roots programs to introduce a more socially focused environment to young people to reduce the alien nature of it..making it more acceptable to more people.

Finding ways of reducing the impact of wealth on the lives of people without forcing anyone to comply with anything.

It's a slow process to plant the seeds of fraternity universally throughout a society and its impatient beings.

posted February 05, 2008 02:14 PM              

i find it hard, though, to shake off those beliefs i have and face the reality has it is, and not as i would like it to be.

and may be, thinking about it, if my utopy became reality, may be i would still be trying to change it... for another one.

so may be i should keep this desire for change for myself, (trying to change myself) as an alchemist tries to find the mechanisms of self-transformation.

may be people like you and me are closer to live in an ideal world than we think. and may be the world we are currently inhabiting has to remain as it is for people who are not motivated to live in an utopic world...

i wish everyone one could share my desire for equality but may be this desire stems from a misconception of our current reality. may be this reality is not meant to be equal. that doesn't mean that if you are truly believing in equality you shouldn't try to foster it... if it's in your nature, it's part of you.. but it means that may be people like you and me are going to be disapointed if we forget to focus on our own evolution and keep hoping that the whole world will evolve, may be we are not meant to hang around in this reality forever...

posted February 06, 2008 02:54 PM              

Love is a force that connects us to every strand of the universe, an unconditional state that characterizes human nature, a form of knowledge that is always there for us if only we can open ourselves to it. -- Emily Hilburn Sell

"All love is expansion, all selfishness is contraction. Love is therefore the only law of life. He who loves lives, he who is selfish is dying. Therefore love for love's sake, because it is law of life, just as you breathe to live." --Swami Vivekananda

Learn and grow all you can; serve and befriend all you can; enrich and inspire all you can. --William Arthur Ward

Our understanding of the world is now shaped not just by the newspapers and television, but also by each other. --Citizen Media: An Introduction

If you think there's a problem in the world, you don't wait for other people to fix it. You have to try to fix it yourself. --Jack Davis, age 11

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The truth is ... everything counts. Everything. Everything we do and everything we say. Everything helps or hurts; everything adds to or takes away from someone else. ~ Countee Cullen

posted February 10, 2008 01:20 PM            

I must learn to be lest selfish.