|
Author
|
Topic: Atheist soldier claims harassment
|
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 26, 2008 01:56 PM
  
quote:
 Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire to serve his country while it fights terrorism. But the specialist is at the center of a legal controversy. He has filed a lawsuit alleging he's been harassed and his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. read more from CNN here
Dude, the declaration of independence says
quote:
"....We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."
So point is, all americans are bound to believe in creator of some kind be it the 'father/son/holy ghost' of christians, 'allah' of islam, 'Yahweh' of jewish etc.... Was Jefferson the main author of that a theist? Just as Russians were afraid of Stalin.
Jefferson may have silently introduced that word on behest of other leaders present. Who knows what happened in that room. Good luck with your case  IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 26, 2008 02:56 PM
I'm inclinded to disbelieve this guy.First, the proper place to lodge a compliant against another member of the military is with the Judge Advocate Generals, (JAG) office. Once done, there will be an investigation and displinary action taken, if warranted, up to and including a court marshal and discharge for the offender. I think this is a publicity seeking geek who was encouraged by a political hack attorney seeking publicity for himself...and his cause. Your premise about the Declaration of Independence is wrong. A belief in God is not mandatory for Americans. This is what does apply. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..." IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 26, 2008 05:16 PM
But thats not the essence of declaration of independence.
That only tells you lets say a person in Florida like you cannot have "I believe" sticker on his car. He may have "In God we trust" sticker. Nothing wrong with that as its constitutional. Question is can he/she have "I don't believe" sticker on his/her car?
IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 27, 2008 11:46 AM
>>>Question is can he/she have "I don't believe" sticker on his/her car?
I think the question must be what if "I don't believe in God"?. Its more anti-god. So is it unconstitutional?
"I don't believe" is more anti christian statement.
IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 27, 2008 11:48 AM
How about this person's car sticker saying simply Dog inverse of God. Thats so anti God LOLNo wait a minute how will majority know the context? How about D_g
(too unholy to say it LOL) IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
|
posted April 27, 2008 12:19 PM
Jefferson had serious arguments with organized religion, but that's a far cry from atheism.We have Jefferson's original draft of the Declaration. Although there were alterations made by Congress - more subtractions than additions btw - mention of the "Creator" is Jefferson's own. IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 27, 2008 12:58 PM
Mannu, your ignorance is very near total.I can have a sticker on my car, a lapel pin, a sign on my back or front, I can carry a sign..any or all of the above saying..Get the hell out of my way, I'm God and I'm in a hurry. Or, there is no God. Or "this is my dog Spot, he's God". Or, Lucifer is God. Or Satan is God. Please don't ever marry and have children..or not marry and have children anyway. IP: Logged |
pidaua
Knowflake Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 27, 2008 02:03 PM
jwhop has it right. The US Military even recognizes Pagan as an religion to include all things Pagan (Wicca, Shamanism and so forth) Heck..they even recognize "Jedi" as a religion these days. For someone to say they are harrassed, when religion barely plays within the Military (only identified on ones dog tags)is ludicrious. Maybe he was beating someone over the head with his beliefs or squashing someone elses to the point of harrassment? Time to do some research..Oh and how do we know about the Jedi reference? Bear has a Soldier in his company that has it listed on his dog tags. IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 27, 2008 02:06 PM
Jwhop - you never stop embarassing me.
You can carry whatever, and I can sue you every time and get away with your bullsh!t LOL
IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 27, 2008 02:06 PM
TINK,
If Jefferson indeed used the word "Creator" it lays claims to us that he was an theist or deist or W.Howeever I will reproduce to you the letter he wrote to his nephew that may suggest he was an atheist even in his time. quote:
Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under whick weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness, even the existence of a God; because if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. - Thomas Jefferson to his nephew Peter Carr
TJ is an aries. And if I am not mistaken most operate at mind level. By that reasoning and his letters I assume he was atheist.
IP: Logged |
pidaua
Knowflake Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 27, 2008 02:12 PM
Here is just one of the stories. Looks like this guy made of the "Major" that harrassed him. The so called person does not exist not even on AKO which lists all Army personnel. LOL.. Even if he retired he would show up on AKO (in fact, only two Welbornes show up and both are female).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20922106/ In this suit, they name the person of interest as Maj Freddy Welborn (which does come up on AKO but he is very far from Iraq). http://bitsofbrain.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/spc-jeremy-hall-atheist-with-a-mission/ Looks like the guy is reaching in a big way Nice bogus story. IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
|
posted April 27, 2008 02:27 PM
I've long since read the letter. I think it's essential to consider both the nature of the man and the times in which he lived.Here's what I believe to be the root cause of the confusion .... Jefferson was almost fanatically averse to anything he judged to be "tyrannical". And I'm not just referring to King George.  He had a phobia about mental domination of any sort. For obvious reasons, religious organizations were on his top ten Most Wanted List. It was excessive. We might even consider it a character flaw, but given his destiny, it was also probably a necessary trait. Now combine this with an almost pathological need for privacy, with a man whose deepest inner being can most easily be described as enigma, and ... well ... you've got people claiming he was an atheist. You've also got people calling him a pagan and a infidel and whatever else suited the time and the agenda. I think a thorough and thoughtful inspection of his life and works will clearly show that he was a man of Faith, although as he said of "a sect unto myself". IP: Logged |
TINK
unregistered
|
posted April 27, 2008 02:34 PM
quote:
Oh and how do we know about the Jedi reference? Bear has a Soldier in his company that has it listed on his dog tags.
 love!
IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted April 27, 2008 03:17 PM
TJ used the word creator because he knew that the destroyer in the form of US military was coming afterwards
IP: Logged |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
