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Author Topic:   U.S. Soldiers Speaking For Themselves
Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted May 09, 2008 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This concerns everyone.

These soldiers deserve our respect for their sacrifices.
Let's hear what they have to say.

U.S. Soliders Returning From Iraq Testify Against the War at the Winter Soldier Conference

Hear the Eye-Witness Indictments NOT being reported by the mainstream press

US Vets, Active-Duty Soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan Testify About the Horrors of War

US veterans gathered in Maryland this past weekend to testify at Winter Soldier, an eyewitness indictment of atrocities committed by US troops during the ongoing occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Soldiers spoke of free-fire zones, the shootings and beatings of innocent civilians, racism at the highest levels of the military, sexual harassment and assault within the military, and the torturing of prisoners. While the corporate media ignored the story, we broadcast their voices. [includes rush transcript]

Winter Soldier Jon Turner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m_f3WPvzU4&feature=related

Winter Soldier Mike Prysner testimony, Pt1
Part 1 is introductory, deals with the military teaching and using racism,
and the bulk of the experience on the ground which involved him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i5ZUfpxnV0


Winter Soldier Jason Hurd on DN-IVAW
At Winter Soldier, I reported my own experience and the information that came to me about the shooting. I also gave my own opinion that the shooting was indiscriminant and unnecessary; some in my unit may disagree with me. That being said, this incident did cause some debate within the unit about whether or not the gunner over-reacted. Whether the gunner over-reacted is actually trivial in my argument. My argument was that we do react out of fear imposed by the chain of command and that soldiers shouldn't be placed in these situations to begin with. Finally, I have an addition to my testimony that should be mentioned here. I in no way intended to indict or defame the character of my fellow soldiers with my testimony (a point that I failed to make clear at Winter Soldier). We all did what we had to do to get home alive and I have the utmost respect for the people in my unit. My only intentions are to prevent other soldiers from seeing the things that I have seen and to keep Iraqis from suffering any longer." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_cjkWevHNM&feature=related


WINTER SOLDIER: MIKE TOTTEN
Mike Totten, Former US Army specialist who served with the 716th MP Battalion in the 101st Airborne and was deployed to Iraq in April 2003 until April 2004 (from Democracy Now). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtMlXABWmxE&feature=related


WINTER SOLDIER: JEFFREY SMITH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl65KHxGQRo&feature=related


WINTER SOLDIER: TANYA AUSTIN
Austin, an Arab linguist in Military Intelligence, speaks on behalf of a female soldier who was raped in Iraq and then blamed for her own rape. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLIBCvcCwe0&feature=related


WINTER SOLDIER: HART VIGES
Hart Viges fought with the 82nd Airborne Division in Iraq before being granted conscientious objector status upon his return home. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnldeEEQB0s&feature=related

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted May 09, 2008 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"These soldiers deserve our respect"? Burp..just a few days ago, these soldiers and their brothers were murderers..or so said HSC. Now, these same soldiers deserve our respect.

If these soldiers saw anything out of the ordinary, anything illegal, anything set forth as a crime or actionable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, then they were obligated to report it to the Judge Advocate Generals office....at their earliest opportunity.

Oh, but that would never do now would it. That would call forth an investigation. An investigation where their stories would be investigated, others in their units called in to give statements. You know, the kind of investigation which would summon forth the truth of the matter and we couldn't have that. Better to wait, come home, potential witnesses scattered to the four winds and that way no one can call what they now say, a damned lie.

One can only hope one of these "soldiers" will mention someones name in their rants and get their ass sued off...as one of our soldiers is suing the ass off Jack Murtha for his lies in a civil court of law.

Newly Discovered Army Reports Discredit "Winter Soldier" Claims

From March 13-16, 2008, members of the antiwar group Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) will gather in Washington, DC to "testify" against the US military at a protest event called Winter Soldier: Iraq & Afghanistan. The name "Winter Soldier" is taken from the infamous 1971 event at which members of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) related gruesome stories of crimes they claimed to have participated in or witnessed. The VVAW insisted that rape, torture and murder were standard practices for the US military in Vietnam. Organizers of the new IVAW tribunal, which is supported by several former VVAW leaders, say the 1971 conference was where "a courageous group of veterans exposed the criminal nature of the Vietnam War." In reality, it was part of a sophisticated, vicious propaganda effort designed to poison public opinion against the US military. Newly discovered records now reveal what happened when Army investigators asked VVAW activists for evidence of the hundreds of crimes they claimed to have seen.

In our book, To Set The Record Straight: How Swift Boat Veterans, POWs and the New Media Defeated John Kerry, Tim Ziegler and I trace the course of the anti-US war crimes propaganda campaign, which began in Europe with KGB-sponsored events that were organized before the first US ground troops ever arrived in Vietnam. In 1969, leaders of those conferences helped American radicals form the "Citizens Commission of Inquiry into US War Crimes in Indochina" (CCI), which set up a series of so-called investigations where US military actions in Vietnam were compared to those of Nazi Germany during World War II. The CCI soon joined forces with the VVAW, another leftist group created with financing and assistance from members of the Communist Party, USA, the Socialist Workers Party and the communist front Veterans for Peace.

The VVAW's Winter Soldier Investigation (WSI) took place in Detroit from Jan. 31 through Feb. 2, 1971. Financed primarily by pro-Hanoi actress Jane Fonda, the event's honorary national coordinator, WSI was the largest war crimes tribunal held in the US during the Vietnam War. Several of the discussion panel moderators were radical leaders who had previously met with top North Vietnamese and Vietcong representatives in Hanoi and Paris. Also present were leftist psychiatrists, psychoanalysts and clinicians, who pressured the witnesses to help end the war by publicly confessing their "crimes." Former VVAW member Steve Pitkin later recalled how the civilians went from man to man, "bombarding them; laying on the guilt." Pitkin signed an affidavit in 2004 charging that John Kerry and other VVAW leaders had coerced him into making a false statement.

WSI was the source of the allegations John Kerry presented to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in April 1971, at a hearing set up by antiwar Senators to showcase the VVAW's atrocity tales. The highly publicized appearance launched Kerry's political career and helped to create a lasting image of Vietnam veterans as drugged-out murderers too damaged to function in normal society. Justice was served in 2004 when a political movement led by some of the veterans John Kerry had defamed sank his presidential bid.

Investigating the winter soldiers

In 2005, I visited the National Archives at College Park, Maryland with Vietnam veteran and researcher John Boyle. Sifting through the limited material available, we found summary data for the WSI allegations the Army had investigated. The Army's Criminal Investigative Division (CID) had opened cases for 43 WSI "witnesses" whose claims, if true, would qualify as crimes. An additional 25 Army WSI participants had criticized the military in general terms, without sufficient substance to warrant any investigation.

The 43 WSI CID cases were eventually resolved as follows: 25 WSI participants refused to cooperate, 13 provided information but failed to support the allegations, and five could not be located. No criminal charges were filed as a result of any of the investigations. The individual CID case files, which had been available to the public beginning in 1994, were withdrawn from public access around 2003, when the National Archives realized that the documents should have been embargoed until the personal information they contained could be removed, or "redacted," as required by the Privacy Act of 1974.

Early in 2007, Boyle learned that a historian had copied the entire collection of CID war crime investigation summaries at the National Archives, including those involving the VVAW, while they were still publicly available. The historian permitted Boyle to photocopy these documents, which we have now posted at WinterSoldier.com:

Army CID Investigations of VVAW War Crimes Allegations

The CID summary reports are revealing. Most of the WSI participants refused to provide evidence to support their allegations. Some made statements that were contradicted by other witnesses, were discredited, or were not substantiated by subsequent investigation.

Several of the VVAW activists backtracked significantly on their WSI statements:

· Douglas Craig claimed at WSI that members of his battalion had fired mortar rounds each night into a local dump, intentionally killing civilians who were scavenging for food. Craig told investigators he had no direct knowledge of these events and expressed misgivings about making allegations in Detroit he could not substantiate.

· Larry Craig claimed at WSI that he watched US soldiers murder a Vietnamese civilian and, on another occasion, desecrate Vietnamese graves. Craig admitted to investigators that the man who was killed could have been Vietcong, and that the soldier allegedly digging in a cemetery could have been looking for weapons caches.

· Donald Donner claimed at WSI that Army personnel had murdered a Vietnamese male, intentionally wounded a 14-year-old Vietnamese girl, indiscriminately slaughtered livestock and failed to bury enemy dead. Donner admitted to the CID that his stories were actually lies, rumors and accounts of accidental events.

· John Lytle claimed at WSI that his unit murdered civilians by destroying villages with artillery fire without making any effort to determine who was there. However, Lytle told the CID that the villages were actually fired on because it was suspected that Vietcong occupied them and incoming fire had been received from the area.

· Robert McConnachie claimed at WSI that Army troops in a convoy threw C-ration cans at Vietnamese children with such force as to kill one or two. He also said an artillery unit had intentionally shelled a hospital and killed civilians. McConnachie backtracked when questioned by military investigators, saying that no Vietnamese children were actually killed by troops throwing C-rations. He said he now believed that the alleged killing of civilians in a hospital by artillery fire was accidental.

· Ronald Palosaari claimed at WSI that Army troops killed two children and an old lady by throwing a grenade into a bunker next to a house. He also said he saw a Vietnamese soldier cut off the ear of a NVA soldier who had just been killed. Interviewed by Army investigators, Palosaari was unable to provide specific dates, locations or the names of any individuals involved in the alleged grenade incident. He admitted that he did not actually witness the mutilation of any enemy dead.

· Donald Pugsley claimed at WSI that a helicopter gunship strafed and killed water buffalo. He admitted to investigators that no water buffalo were actually fired upon.

· Kenneth Ruth claimed at WSI to have witnessed the torture of Vietcong suspects, and told Life Magazine that he saw troops test fire weapons into a village, wounding 43 civilians. However, Ruth admitted to Army investigators that he had no personal knowledge of such an event. The CID found his torture claims unsubstantiated.

· George Smith claimed at WSI that members of his Special Forces unit had beaten enemy prisoners and placed them in small barbed-wire cages. Smith backtracked on these claims when interviewed by Army investigators, saying that the alleged acts were actually committed by South Vietnamese forces rather than American troops.

· David Stark claimed at WSI that hundreds of Vietnamese civilians were killed by indiscriminate bombing and strafing in the Saigon area during late 1968. He also claimed to have witnessed the maltreatment of prisoners. However, Stark told CID interviewers that he actually saw no bodies, was unable to identify the aircraft or military units involved in the attacks or the cleanup operation, and admitted that he had never witnessed maltreatment of prisoners, except for a single occasion when he said he saw a prisoner pushed and shoved by two South Vietnamese officers.

The only Army witness to appear at WSI whose allegations have been substantiated was James Henry. Military authorities closed Henry's case, which had already been under review for nearly a year by the time of WSI, after "an extensive investigation did not reveal sufficient evidence to prove or disprove Mr. Henry's allegations." However, the CID also opened a supplemental investigation into whether a group of civilians had been killed by US troops. The results of that investigation indicate that crimes were probably committed, but no documentation of any prosecutions has been found or reported.

The Naval Investigative Service (NIS) was ordered to investigate charges made at WSI by VVAW members representing themselves as veterans of the Navy or Marines. Their reports have not been located, and it is uncertain whether they were destroyed or are lost in the vast government archives system. Historian Guenter Lewy cited a summary report by NIS in his 1978 book America in Vietnam, noting that many participants refused to provide evidence to Navy investigators, and others backtracked on their stories â€" the same pattern found in the newly discovered Army CID documents. Lewy also reported that several veterans told the NIS in sworn statements corroborated by witnesses that they had not been in Detroit â€" i.e., the VVAW activists who used their names were imposters.

It is unfortunate that the military didn't simply release the results of the investigations as they were completed. America's Vietnam veterans might have been spared several decades of public distrust and contempt stimulated by the leftist "baby-killer" agitprop. Unfortunately, US military leaders during the Vietnam era failed to understand that home-front psychological warfare operations pose at least as great a threat to the military's ability to successfully complete its mission as enemy operations in the field.

The (not so) new winter soldiers

Among the VVAW retreads supporting the IVAW's new propaganda campaign is Joe Bangert, a former Marine mechanic who claimed at WSI that he had watched while his fellow Americans casually gunned down Vietnamese children and murdered and skinned a Vietnamese woman. Bangert, a fervent supporter of America's wartime enemies, met in 1971 with North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations in Paris, where he proudly sang "We Will Liberate the South," and the "Ballad of Uncle Ho" for his hosts. He later moved to join his comrades in communist Vietnam, where he lived for several years.

Members of the military with actual knowledge of crimes committed by US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan have a legal and moral obligation to report them to military authorities. The activists who will claim in Washington that they saw or participated in such crimes presumably failed to do this. What are we to make of "witnesses" who ignore crimes while in the field, but later make allegations in a venue designed to smear the military and its mission? Add the near-certainty that the charges themselves will be vague, lacking the specific details and supporting evidence that real investigations require. Perhaps this time we should assume that the troops who defend us are innocent when they are accused of unsubstantiated "crimes" by a radical movement with a long history of deceit.

In light of the new CID documents, will John Kerry admit that the war crime allegations he presented to the Senate in 1971 were largely fictitious? When the Winter Soldier documentary is shown to college students, will liberal professors now point out that it has been thoroughly discredited? Will the Washington Post reconsider its credulous 2005 film review? Can we expect the new discovery to be reported accurately on Wikipedia's leftist-controlled Winter Soldier page? Will the IVAW radicals currently preparing their own attack on the US military be embarrassed to learn that they are emulating a fraud?

Not a chance. WSI was always about perceptions; never reality. America's detractors will peddle the VVAW's grisly myths for as long as people are willing to believe them.

Scott Swett

http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Swett_CID


“War is an ugly thing, [It is] not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
- John Stuart Mill

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted May 09, 2008 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Iraq Veterans Against the War Speak Out (1 of 4)

Iraq Veterans Against the War Washington, DC Chapter president, Geoffrey Millard holds forth on veterans issues, his own experiences while serving in Iraq, and pays tribute to the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, for their having laid the foundation upon which IVAW was built. Geoff was one of 50 Iraq veterans interviewed in the July 30, 2007 issue of The Nation http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ABx4fG1ZJL4&feature=related

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jwhop
Knowflake

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posted May 09, 2008 08:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, how about it HSC?

How did these soldiers go from being murderers a few days ago....to deserving our respect today...your words HSC.

“War is an ugly thing, [It is] not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
- John Stuart Mill

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted May 09, 2008 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
jwhop,
I've explained this to you and you have no desire to understand.

These men have come forward to confess their warcrimes,
and for that, they certainly deserve our respect.

It is not easy to confess to killing innocent people.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted May 09, 2008 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well then, by all means since they admit their guilt, let's make sure they are brought before a military court, charged, convicted, sentenced to death and executed by military firing squad.

That suit you HSC?

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted May 10, 2008 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absolutely.

It would be on the front page of every newspaper in America.

I'll help you make it happen.

Let's get the word out!

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

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posted May 10, 2008 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

But we should torture them first, right?

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted May 15, 2008 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why torture the liars?

If they're making lying statements which give aid and comfort to our terrorist enemies, then they should be charged with treason, convicted and executed.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted May 15, 2008 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
May 15, 2008
Summer Soldiers by Any Other Name: Act II
By Kyle-Anne Shiver

"We must view as shameful any act by any American that emboldens and encourages the enemies we fight in the field. That is what is happening with the current efforts by anti-war activists purporting to show our soldiers as nothing more than criminals with guns terrorizing a helpless people. To look at it, one would think the enemy himself is scripting the testimony of the Iraq Veterans Against the War."
- Lt. Col. (ret) Steve Russell, May 15, 2008

American patriots should have known better, I suppose, than to think that the Winter Soldiers would have enough pride not to show their faces in public again after their March tomfoolery in Silver Spring, MD.

The American public is not being fooled, in my opinion.

But the Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW), aka Winter Soldiers, have now found a willing audience in Congress, that is sure to fawn over them with all the theatrics of a Soviet-style show trial.

The Progressive Congressional Caucus (PCC; now there's a hoot) is laying out the red carpet, the one we taxpayers provide by the sweat of our brows, so that they can hear "testimony" by a tiny group of veterans, who are apparently unhappy about the fact that the American people decided we needed to fight a war while they were in uniform.

Cloaking one's own cowardice in scurrilous accusations against others seems brazen beyond belief, in my view, but the show will go on and everyone will play their parts to as much media attention as can be bought.

What is the Progressive Congressional Caucus, you may wonder

Succinctly, this is the group of congressional representatives and one senator, who are responsible for "progressing" the Marxist cause in America. They probably don't call themselves, "The Socialists," for the same reason the "Winter Soldiers," don't call themselves "Socialist Summer Soldiers." These more genuine monikers would be seen as un-American. Thus the switcheroo.

One of the best examples of PCC lunacy was Californian Pete Stark's statement last year (in the SCHIP debates) about our soldiers in Iraq "getting their heads blown off for the president's amusement." Stark is a proud PCC member, as are Henry Waxman, Maxine Waters, Barney Frank, Jesse Jackson, Jr., Charles Rangel and Dennis Kucinich. And could this far, far, far, far left caucus possibly be complete without Keith Ellison, the only Muslim member, and Bernie Sanders, the only openly avowed Socialist member? No, of course not.

At the moment, the PCC's most pressing cause is to engineer America's withdrawal and defeat in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they are following their forebears' successful game plan from the Vietnam era, right down to naming the anti-war groups the same, and parading dissident vets in the halls of our congress.

The Progressive Congressional Caucus states that their overall cause is to fulfill The Progressive Promise of fairness to all. Right now, though, they're kind of stuck in the world as God made it, and must spend their lives and our money hearing the grievances of unsatisfied consumers.

Enter the IVAW, stage left.

The scene, the actors and the story line

Act I of this beyond amusing little production began in Silver Spring, MD in March. Ticket sales, unfortunately, were not open to the public; it was a private performance at this point.

In fact, it was so private, that according to a naval officer, who was there (outside):

Security was pretty tight, to the point of having sharpshooters on the roof of the building where the event took place...The only time you go behind closed doors with your friends-especially with that much security in place-is when you have something to hide, or something you don't want the world to know about.
- Coby W. Dillard; U.S. Navy 2000-2006; now Assistant Director, Gathering of Eagles.

I couldn't agree more. Making scurrilous accusations against others in secret is not only cowardly, it's downright un-American. But perhaps Silver Spring was merely a rehearsal for Act II, a chance to hone stories and act more convincingly for a broader audience, the PCC folks in D.C., whose hearing today is purported to be open, although requests from the Gathering of Eagles to speak have not been answered as of this writing.

Perhaps only those reading from the same script will be allowed as this show-and-tell performance.

There will be crashers in the audience, though. Both Gathering of Eagles and Eagles Up promise to have honorable vets in attendance. Thank the Constitution for that.

The single purpose of the troop-support groups in attending is to ensure that statements are made under oath with verifiable corroboration, in accordance with the United States Constitutional guarantees to due process and the right to face one's accuser.

The charges that the IVAW are making are serious, and when they make them in a public forum, they must be scrutinized in the same fashion as any other charges of wrongdoing. War crimes are not something we, as Americans, take lightly.

As Lt. Col. (ret) Steve Russell, reminds us:

The fact that so much of the 'testimony' of these supposed crimes has resulted in no credible investigation or trial in military courts should give a clue as to the true merits of each case. The military takes all such allegations dead serious. I know, I have sat on military war crimes panels.

All under the rule of law

Whatever these IVAW and PCC people may think of themselves, however they choose to play this out, they, too, are citizens who must live under the rule of law. We Americans were bamboozled by the first Winter Soldiers of 1971, who turned out to be mostly phonies and pawns of our communist enemies. We were fooled then; we didn't have the internet.

As citizens, we have the right to examine serious allegations according to the rule of law. And we have the duty to ensure that accusations against our own military in a time of war, are fully investigated and corroborated before they are taken seriously.

That is why Gathering of Eagles is sponsoring a petition to Congress that supports and requires accountability for those who participate in the Winter Soldier project. As an American citizen, my belief in equality under the rule of law has compelled me to sign on to this effort, letting those who put on show trials know that this is not the USSR. We don't like it when people put political agendas ahead of our own safety by undermining our war efforts.

Lt. Col. (ret) Steve Russell says it best:

The real agenda with these anti-war efforts is to undermine our success in Iraq and Afghanistan for political gain at home. Shameul.

Indeed, it is shameful. And we must, as citizens, do all we can to make certain that every legal standard is followed to the letter.

And if and when the accusations of the Winter Soldiers are adjudged to be unfounded, then we should amplify our disdain for their unconscionable actions.

Then, perhaps, it will be time for Americans to once again employ Patton-style shaming and shunning.

In the meantime, it might be wise to remember this old Patton dictum, when weighing the "testimony" of the Winter Soldiers in Congress today:

Many soldiers are led to faulty ideas of war by knowing too much about too little.
- General George Patton

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/summer_soldiers_by_any_other_n_1.html

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted May 15, 2008 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Summer Soldiers by Any Other Name
by Kyle-Anne Shiver • March 13, 2008

“These are the times that try men’s souls. The summer soldier and sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.”
Thomas Paine, writing in 1776

The so-called Winter Soldier testimonies of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans start today in Washington, D.C. No one knows how many former soldiers will show up, what they will actually say, or even more than a few names of those slated to appear. These men and women are attempting to re-create the Winter Soldier allegations made in 1971 by a group of dissident Vietnam Vets, of whom John Kerry was a prominent member.

While we don’t yet know a whole lot about the current crop of dissidents or their possible connections with our enemies, we now know a great deal about the original Winter Soldiers, who were the first Americans to try this aid-and-abet-the-enemy scheme on such a large scale, with a collective organization in a public forum.

We know from resulting investigations of the Winter Soldiers’ allegations, FBI reports and independent research that a large number of those who publicly spoke in 1971, were phonies and liars, while some were merely repeating rumors, hearsay or stories spun for them by behind-the-scenes prompters. Many of the original Winter Soldiers never even served in Vietnam. Some of those claiming to have been wounded in the war were found later to have had sports injuries from civilian life, not war wounds.

Telling tall tales of atrocity after atrocity, war crime after war crime, these dissident vets framed the entire American army and their commanders as the outright enemies of every standard of decency. They freely slandered 2 ½ million United States soldiers as rampaging barbarians without a shred of conscience, even admitting to some war crimes themselves, on the grounds that they were mentally impaired by the horrors of war.

These little turn-on-your-friends-for-personal-gain gambits are just about as old as human nature itself, and seem to crop up in every place and era, especially in wartime.

And the lengths to which people will go to justify, rationalize and otherwise alter the perception of their less than noble deeds is equally infinite.

Hence, the name Winter Soldiers.

A guileful attempt, in my opinion, to alter public perception with a clever name.

What’s in a name?

Actually, not much, as Shakespeare so eloquently noted.

The original Winter Soldiers adopted their name, they said, to demonstrate that they were the opposites of Thomas Paine’s “summer soldiers” and “sunshine patriots,” the kind of Americans that refused to fight for their liberties. More than likely, however, they called themselves the Winter Soldiers as a shrewdly calculated move designed to preempt their denunciation by the populace as shameful traitors to America’s war efforts.

So, were the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, aka Winter Soldiers, genuinely trying to help America as true heroes willing to “speak truth to power”?

Or, were they merely the useful idiots doing some of the dirty work for America’s enemies, the North Vietnamese communists and the Viet Cong?

Meetings in Paris with the Enemy

Recently unearthed, official documents reveal that the anti-Vietnam-war movement, of which the Winter Soldiers were a part, was not really the loosely connected, independently motivated concoction of various like-minded Americans in the way that the groups themselves painted it.

Instead, these documents, which were taken from the communists themselves, indicate that there was a cohesion of purpose dictated by our own enemies in Vietnam, and that the Winter Soldier allegations were just part and parcel of that larger scheme.

Several Winter Soldiers made trips to Paris from 1970 to 1972, specifically to meet with Madame Bingh, a formal representative of the South Vietnamese communists (Viet Cong). These Vietnam Veterans Against the War, of whom John Kerry was one, were given copies of the communists’ 7-point plan for peace, and soon after began mimicking the same terminology in their “peace” demonstrations.

Among other points, the plan specifically demanded:

A firm date for withdrawal of all United States forces and weaponry.

Monetary reparations for the damage caused by America’s war on Vietnam.

If all conditions were met posthaste, then the communists honorably promised that perfect peace and harmony among all would promptly ensue.

Left unstated was the last line of this fairytale, “And they all lived happily ever after.”

Of course, these loving, peaceful, harmonious communists were not quite true to their words. As soon as our Democrat-controlled Congress cut off the funding that was to ensure and protect the hard-won peace, the North Vietnamese invaded South Vietnam, and with the assistance of the Viet Cong, conducted a brutal genocide that resulted in more than a million atrocious murders. Millions more were sent to re-education camps to be brainwashed in communist groupthink.

Isn’t it a wonder that so many bright, young, well-educated Americans of the anti-war left, bought the whole communist line without even having to be forcefully re-educated?

Are the VVAW and the IVAW two peas in the same plot?

Here we are 37 years after the first Winter Soldier shenanigans, witnessing a reincarnation of seemingly the same old tactics.

Malcontented veterans. Backed up by anti-recruitment activities. Stories of atrocities that turn out not to be.

And eerily similar demands:

A specific date for withdrawal of troops.

Close Guantanamo and stop “cruel” and “inhumane” treatment of detainees.

Garner world opinion on the enemy’s side.

Cut off the funding for the war.

Impeach the President.

For several years now, the anti-war left has put up a concerted effort to convince the American public that Iraq was just another Vietnam. They’ve called it a quagmire. Unwinnable. A political war. A civil war that we caused.

The anti-Iraq war factions have called our President a war criminal. They have called our honorable soldiers cold-blooded murderers. And they have called the insurgent enemies “freedom fighters.”

And all this time, I have felt the queasy déjà vu that has at times hurled me back in time to the days in America when communist propaganda won over common sense and sound reason.

In the Vietnam era, we took the propagandists at their word.

So, will I put a lot of stock in whatever these new Iraq Winter Soldiers say in Washington this week?

No.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…not likely.

2008 is not 1971

In 1971, both the citizenry and our government were taken off guard by these men, posturing themselves as the victims of an indefensible war. We took them mostly at their words.

Even though investigations did shortly reveal that most refused to give depositions under oath, could provide no verifiable details of the allegations they had made or any corroboration whatsoever, they fooled enough people in the Congress and the public to succeed in their efforts to stop the war and deliver victory to our enemies.

This time, however, the Winter Soldiers will be met with a good number of American citizens who are older and wiser and will make them accountable for their words and their actions.

Many pro-troop citizens groups will be in Washington to meet the Iraq veterans that are part of the Winter Soldier conclave.

A few of those who will be in Washington this week to confront the Iraq Veterans Against the War are Eagles Up, Gathering of Eagles and Move America Forward. I’m certain there will be many others. This time we have Americans who will stand up for America.

When I spoke with retired Army Colonel, Harry Wiley, of Eagles Up, he told me that he had previously heard Iraq veterans speak out against the war, and that for the most part, these were young people saying in effect that they “had not liked seeing the impact of war.”

“Well, none of us do,” he told me. “But that’s part of war, always has been.”

Colonel Riley should know about war. He served in the army from 1956 - 1992, fought in Vietnam and has seen more than his share of the ugliness of war.

When I asked Colonel Riley how a good soldier maintains his civility in the face of enemy barbarism, he gave the answer that I have heard again and again from veterans, especially of the Vietnam and Iraq wars.

“A man falls back on his own moral code, knowing that all human life is important and worthy of protecting. When a soldier kills, he doesn’t do it because he wants to; he does it because he has to. It’s kill or be killed.”

Americans will have a choice in Washington this week.

Our Congress has already shown a willingness to be taken in by the kind of allegations these Winter Soldiers may be making. In 1971, the VVAW members were taken at their words, only to be found out much later after grievous harm had been done to our Nation and to the reputations of 2 ½ million American soldiers.

In my opinion, uncorroborated statements, not even rendered under oath, ought not be given much weight. According to the U.S. Constitution, every accused has the right to face his accuser and the right to view the evidence against him.

I have a real hunch that these vets calling themselves “Winter Soldiers” are just ole’ fashioned summer soldiers up to the same tomfoolery as their namesakes.

One can only hope that we are too wise to be fooled twice.
http://www.kyleanneshiver.com/2008/03/13/summer-soldiers-by-any-other-name/

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 15, 2008 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Grab the popcorn. We’ve got another joint YAF/Hot Air TV production for you, just in time for the anti-war confab known as “Winter Soldier II” that kicks off in Washington, D.C. tomorrow and runs through Sunday. YAF’s Jason Mattera, our intrepid special correspondent who cornered Jack Murtha in September, is back in the halls of Congress.

This week, Jason caught up with the original Winter Soldier, Sen. John Kerry, and confronted him about his unsubstantiated, troop-smearing testimony. Jason also tried to get him to autograph this picture. Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ItPN9_79U

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 15, 2008 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Will Winter Soldiers II go under oath or sign affidavits as to what they personally did or what they personally witnessed others do in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Ummmm, seems they're not willing to swear to anything. That's not their thing. Making malicious, slanderous allegations IS their thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_6gNY6S5HE&feature=related

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