posted September 04, 2008 03:51 PM            

Lets point out Palin's pastor issues. There shouldn't be any double standards when it comes to black preachers and white preachers.

The church runs a number of ministries providing help to poor neighborhoods, care for children in need, and general community services. But Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode."

It is impossible to determine how much Wasilla Assembly of God has shaped Palin's thinking. She was baptized there at the age of 12 and attended the church for most of her adult life. When Palin was inaugurated as governor, the founding pastor of the church delivered the invocation. In 2002, Palin moved her family to a nondenominational church, but she continues to worship at a related Assembly of God church in Juneau.

Moreover, she "has maintained a friendship with Wasilla Assembly of God and has attended various conferences and special meetings here," Kalnins' office said in a statement. "As for her personal beliefs," the statement added, "Governor Palin is well able to speak for herself on those issues."

Clearly, however, Palin views the church as the source of an important, if sometimes politically explosive, message. "Having grown up here, and having little kids grow up here also, this is such a special, special place," she told the congregation in June. "What comes from this church I think has great destiny."

And if the political storm over Barack Obama's former pastor Jeremiah Wright is any indication, Palin may face some political fallout over the more controversial teachings of Wasilla Assembly of God.

If the church had a political alignment, it would almost surely be conservative. In his sermons, Kalnins did not hide his affections for certain national politicians.

During the 2004 election season, he praised President Bush's performance during a debate with Sen. John Kerry, then offered a not-so-subtle message about his personal candidate preferences. "I'm not going tell you who to vote for, but if you vote for this particular person, I question your salvation. I'm sorry." Kalnins added: "If every Christian will vote righteously, it would be a landslide every time."

Months after hinting at possible damnation for Kerry supporters, Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over the federal government's handling of Hurricane Katrina. "I hate criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get you."

Much of his support for the current administration has come in the realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the Christian faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be willing to sacrifice their lives.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

On Aug. 17, 2008 Sarah Palin attended a sermon by David Brickner, the executive director (corrected) of "Jews for Jesus". Her pastor Larry Kroon, who has as Palin deep cultural roots in evangelical Christianity, invited Brickner to the Wasilla Bible Church. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uz_nPFfjYo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0SFERgx6JE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PizrJLV30yI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfX1sioxJVg&feature=related

posted September 04, 2008 04:09 PM            

Wright is a Marxist anti-America racist of the first water. For any American to sit in that den of vipers for 20 years without throwing up shows a remarkably strong intestinal constitution. My hat's off to O'Bomber.

But, O'Bomber also exposed his 2 daughters to the ravings of this lunatic Wright and that's unforgivable....unless you believe Wright is right.

Now, if O'Bomber believes Wright is right, then there is no American who should ever vote for O'Bomber. We're not going to elect a person to the Presidency who hates America, is a Marxist and adopts a racist religion.

posted September 04, 2008 04:31 PM            

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. did the same thing.

the only things that I disagree with Wright is the AIDS stuff and the differences between the minds of whites and blacks.
Racism is a fact of life in the USA,and that cannot be denied. Even American Civil Liberties Union called USA out on its racism. Even President Bush admitted to NAACP that racism is a lingering problem in USA. He even said that you can change the laws but you cannot a change a human heart.

So don't give me that crap about how Rev. Wright is racist and Anti-American.

posted September 04, 2008 04:35 PM            

Before 1965, King was upbeat and bright, his belief in white America’s ability to change by moral suasion resilient and durable. That is the leader we have come to know during annual King commemorations. After 1965, King was darker and angrier; he grew more skeptical about the willingness of America to change without great social coercion.

King’s skepticism and anger were often muted when he spoke to white America, but they routinely resonated in black sanctuaries and meeting halls across the land. Nothing highlights that split -- or white America’s ignorance of it and the prophetic black church King inspired -- more than recalling King’s post-1965 odyssey, as he grappled bravely with poverty, war and entrenched racism. That is the King who emerges as we recall the meaning of his death. After the grand victories of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, King turned his attention to poverty, economic injustice and class inequality. King argued that those "legislative and judicial victories did very little to improve" Northern ghettos or to "penetrate the lower depths of Negro deprivation." In a frank assessment of the civil rights movement, King said the changes that came about from 1955 to 1965 "were at best surface changes" that were "limited mainly to the Negro middle class." In seeking to end black poverty, King told his staff in 1966 that blacks "are now making demands that will cost the nation something. ... You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then."

King’s conclusion? "There must be a better distribution of wealth, and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism." He didn’t say this in the mainstream but to his black colleagues.

Similarly, although King spoke famously against the Vietnam War before a largely white audience at Riverside Church in New York in 1967, exactly a year before he died, he reserved some of his strongest antiwar language for his sermons before black congregations. In his own pulpit at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, two months before his death, King raged against America’s "bitter, colossal contest for supremacy." He argued that God "didn’t call America to do what she’s doing in the world today, " preaching that "we are criminals in that war" and that we "have committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world." King insisted that God "has a way of saying, as the God of the Old Testament used to say to the Hebrews, ’Don’t play with me, Israel. Don’t play with me, Babylon. Be still and know that I’m God. And if you don’t stop your reckless course, I’ll rise up and break the backbone of your power.’ "

Perhaps nothing might surprise -- or shock -- white Americans more than to discover that King said in 1967: "I am sorry to have to say that the vast majority of white Americans are racist, either consciously or unconsciously." In a sermon to his congregation in 1968, King openly questioned whether blacks should celebrate the nation’s 1976 bicentennial. "You know why?" King asked. "Because it [the Declaration of Independence] has never had any real meaning in terms of implementation in our lives."

In the same year, King bitterly suggested that black folk couldn’t trust America, comparing blacks to the Japanese who had been interred in concentration camps during World War II. "And you know what, a nation that put as many Japanese in a concentration camp as they did in the ’40s ... will put black people in a concentration camp. And I’m not interested in being in any concentration camp. I been on the reservation too long now." Earlier, King had written that America "was born in genocide when it embraced the doctrine that the original American, the Indian, was an inferior race."

Such quotes may lead some to wrongly see King as anti-white and anti-American, a minister who allowed politics to trump religion in his pulpit, just as some see Wright now. Or they might say that King 40 years ago had better reason for bitterness than Wright in the enlightened 21st century. But that would put a fine point on arguable gains, and it would reveal a deep unfamiliarity with the history of the black Christian church.
The black prophetic church was born because of the racist politics of the white church. Only when the white church rejected its own theology of love and embraced white supremacy did black folk leave to praise God in their own sanctuaries, on their own terms. Insurgent slave ministers such as Gabriel Prosser, Denmark Vesey and Nat Turner hatched revolts against slave masters. Harriet Tubman was inspired by black religious belief to lead hundreds of black souls out of slavery. For many blacks, religion and social rebellion went hand in hand. They still do.

For most of our history, the black pulpit has been the freest place for black people. It is in the black church that blacks gathered to enhance social networks, gain education, wage social struggle -- and express the grief and glory of black existence. The preacher was one of the few black figures not captive to white interests or bound by white money. Because black folk paid his salary, he was free to speak his mind and that of his congregation. The preacher often said things that most black folk believed but were afraid to say. He used his eloquence and erudition to defend the vulnerable and assail the powerful.

King extended that prophetic tradition, which includes vigorous self-criticism as well -- especially sharp words against the otherworldliness that grips some churches. In 1967, King said that too many black churches were "so absorbed in a future good ’over yonder’ that they condition their members to adjust to the present evils ’over here.’ " Two months before his death, King chided black preachers for standing "in the midst of the poverty of our own members" and mouthing "pious irrelevancies and sanctimonious trivialities." King struck fiercely at the ugly, self-serving practices of some black ministers when he claimed that they were "more concerned about the size of the wheelbase on our automobiles, and the amount of money we get in our anniversaries, than ... about the problems of the people who made it possible for us to get these things."

Obama has seized on the early King to remind Americans about what we can achieve when we allow our imaginations to soar high as we dream big. Wright has taken after the later King, who uttered prophetic truths that are easily caricatured when snatched from their religious and racial context. What united King in his early and later periods is the incurable love that fueled his hopefulness and rage. As King’s example proves, as we dream, we must remember the poor and vulnerable who live a nightmare. And as we strike out in prophetic anger against injustice, love must cushion even our hardest blows.

Michael Eric Dyson is a professor of sociology at Georgetown University and the author of 16 books, including the just-published "April 4, 1968: Martin Luther King Jr.’s Death and How It Changed America." http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/suncommentary/la-oe-dyson4apr04, 1, 1626213.story

Jeremiah Wright is viewed as being racist and Anti-American???? Man.....Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said similar things. Does that make him racist and Anti-American?
I don’t think so.

posted September 04, 2008 04:44 PM            

He made a not that violence beget violence. He was pointing out that we can't expect harm not to be done to us when we did harm to others.

Even in the bible, Jesus "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" He said "do unto others as would have them do unto you" He even said that "you soweth what you reap"

It's no different from the sermon that Jeremiah Wright said.

it's true that USA has killed over 200,000 people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima during World War 2. Innocent people were killed in Vietnam. Innocent people are being killed in Iraq.

There is a history of racism,hate crimes, hate groups,and discrimination even things like racial profiling here in USA.

Try watching the whole sermon and not just judge by a few soundbites.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

He argued that God "didn’t call America to do what she’s doing in the world today, " preaching that "we are criminals in that war" and that we "have committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world." King insisted that God "has a way of saying, as the God of the Old Testament used to say to the Hebrews, ’Don’t play with me, Israel. Don’t play with me, Babylon. Be still and know that I’m God. And if you don’t stop your reckless course, I’ll rise up and break the backbone of your power.’ "

That's pretty much what Wright said but he said it in a different way. He mainly pointed that USA would be punished for violence,cruelty,and mistreatment of others which is often done out of selfrighteousness and belief in its own superiority.

posted September 04, 2008 04:47 PM            

And He should not talk about people who had to make those decisions. He should stick to his business.

posted September 04, 2008 04:49 PM            

I can't see how you go slam a preacher as being racist and anti-American for pointing out about about race relations and foreign policy of the USA like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. did.

Try talking to a lot of black people.

as a part black person myself,I feel offended by your selfrighteousness.

posted September 04, 2008 04:52 PM            

quote:

---

Hahaha, you cite Huffington Post??? Unbelievable...and I do mean UNBELIEVABLE.

---

posted September 04, 2008 04:54 PM            

Perhaps I am not clear. Well you can't mix politics with things of God. When you know God, you will run away from Politics.

Martin Luther , Gandhi etc made the same mistake of mixing their personal journeys with politics and therefore their judgements were clouded. There are so many examples I can provide of Gandhi. But I don't have time to go in to history.

Wright only delivers what people want to hear. It is a medium for the people to vent their frustrations with society.

posted September 04, 2008 05:01 PM            

The 13th Amendment to the US Constitution was adopted December 6, 1865.

The Civil Rights Act was passed on July 2, 1964.

The Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.

My, my, my, how time flies when you're not paying attention.

For that 10% who never seem to get the news.

Minorities are given hiring preferences in both Federal and State hiring...and at many US Corporations.

Minorities are given preferences in university admissions.

posted September 04, 2008 07:57 PM            

quote:

---

I can't see how you go slam a preacher as being racist and anti-American for pointing out about about race relations and foreign policy of the USA like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. did.

---

There is a HUGE difference between Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Rev. Wright. I really doubt that Dr. King would appreciate sitting through a sermon by Rev. Wright. Wright is spiteful, vindictive and abrasive in his speeches. He likes to sway and overpower his crowd with sensationalism. Dr. King was a MASTER orator. He structured his speeches with a fine artistry and his messages and perspectives were always consistent with the way in which he lived his life.

"Well, I don't think of Love as, in this context, as emotional bosh. I don't think of it as a weak force. But I think of Love as something strong and it organizes itself into powerful, direct action. This is what I try to teach in the struggle in the South: that we are not engaged in a struggle that means we sit down and do nothing, that there is a great deal of difference between non-resistance to evil and non-violent resistance. Non-resistance leaves you in a state of stagnant passivity and deadened complacency, wherein non-violent resistance means that you do resist in a very strong and determined manner. And I think some of the criticisms of non-violence, or some of the critics, fail to realize that we are talking about something very strong and they confuse non-resistance with non-violent resistance."

-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in response to a question in an interview regarding criticisms of his movement
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MwKIUMbi9Jk

And let's not even delve into how ridiculous it is for Rev. Wright to emphasize his hate-filled topics in this modern period. Dr. King's time was a horse of a completely different color, regardless of the seemingly small period between then and now. The black community of that period had every right to stand up for themselves and take action. Lucky for America, they found Dr. King. And yet, with all the discontent from racism and oppression, Dr. King still didn't give in to the hippocritical melodrama that we find in Rev. Wright's philosophy. Rev. Wright could use his love for speaking to inspire young individuals as Dr. King once did. Instead, he'd rather use his tongue to acquiesce his listeners into hostile feelings towards their society. It's a damn shame.

to Rev. Wright!

Nothing personal, Glaucus. I hold Dr. King with GREAT austerity in my heart and your comment just fired me up.

posted September 04, 2008 10:09 PM            

The Civil Rights Act was passed on July 2, 1964.

The Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.

My, my, my, how time flies when you're not paying attention.

For that 10% who never seem to get the news.

Minorities are given hiring preferences in both Federal and State hiring...and at many US Corporations.

Minorities are given preferences in university admissions."

I already know those things. I do read. I am not stupid nor ignorant. There is no need to be condescending and patronizing to me.
That doesn't mean that racism is a problem.
Presenting civil rights law doesn't disprove racism doesn't exist in USA.

Denying that racism doesn't exist doesn't disprove it either.

I have already shown facts that show that racism is still a problem. Even President Bush admitted to NAACP that racism is a lingering problem in America and said that you can change the laws but you can't change a human heart. American Civil Liberties Union called USA out on its racism. There are a lot of issues with racial discrimination in USA. Things like affirmative action don't get rid of all racial discrimination. Even 20/20 didn't segment that people with white sounding names get more callbacks for jobs than people with black sounding names.

(CNN) -- Most Americans, white and black, see racism as a lingering problem in the United States, and many say they know people who are racist, according to a new poll.
But few Americans of either race -- about one out of eight -- consider themselves racist.
And experts say racism has evolved from the days of Jim Crow to the point that people may not even recognize it in themselves. http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/racism.poll/index.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush acknowledged persistent racism in America and lamented the Republican Party's bumpy relations with black voters as he addressed the NAACP's annual convention Thursday for the first time in his presidency.
"I understand that racism still lingers in America," Bush told the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. "It's a lot easier to change a law than to change a human heart. And I understand that many African-Americans distrust my political party." http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8IVQT000&show_article=1

Overlooking racism may lead to undiagnosed mental health disorders http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-09/vu-orm091503.php

"The United States is doing little to comply with an international
agreement to end racial discrimination and has downplayed widespread
racism, charged an American Civil Liberties Union report released
yesterday." http://www.dailynewstribune.com/news/x773671370

Racial microaggressions add up, researchers say http://www.newsobserver.com/105/story/820146.html

Despite the fact that half of all blacks say they have experienced discrimination in the past 30 days, whites persist in believing that we know their realities better than they do, and that black complaints of racism are the rantings of oversensitive racial hypochondriacs. Blacks, we seem to believe, make mountains out of molehills, for Lord knows we would never make a molehill out of a mountain! http://www.guerrillanews.com/threads/13568/why_whites_think_blacks_have_no_problems

Job applicants with African-American sounding names are far less likely to get a callback as are similarly qualified "white" candidates, according to researchers at the University of Chicago and MIT, who submitted 5,000 bogus resumes in response to job ads. Half the resumes bore stereotypical African-American names such as Latonya and Tyrone; half sported traditionally Anglo names like Kristin and Brad. http://www.psychologytoday.com/rss/pto-20030430-000001.html
Can a 'Black' Name Affect Job Prospects?
Can a Black-Sounding Name Hurt Your Career Prospects?
But capable doesn't always matter. A job recruiter for Fortune 500 companies in northern California revealed an ugly secret."There is rampant racism everywhere. And people who deny that are being naïve," said the recruiter, who spoke on the condition her name would not be used. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=124232&page=3

Are schools failing black boys?
Eight percent of the children in America’s public school are black boys, yet their representation in the nation’s special education classes is nearly twice that: 15 percent. African American males are also three times likely as white males to be enrolled in special education programs for "mildly to moderately mentally retarded," according to a 1992 report released by the Office of Civil Rights. http://www.terry.uga.edu/~dawndba/4500FailingBlkBoys.html
The purpose of this research was to evaluate the degree to which Black students are overrepresented and misplaced in special education, as a result of current testing and placement practices, insufficient parental knowledge of special education rights and responsibilities, and the need for more cultural diversity training for teachers. The two subjects interviewed were a special education teacher/chairperson and a principal; both employed in the same school. A class of special education students was unknowingly observed. Interview responses show little satisfaction with the current methods of placing Black children into special education programs. The observations demonstrated that the majority of the children did not need to be placed there. The use of Black psychologists, increased parental support and knowledge, a non-biased test for placement and increased preservice and inservice training was recommended. http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/peterz1.html
Being African American increases a mentally ill individual’s chance of being diagnosed with schizophrenia and reduces the likelihood of that person’s receiving an affective disorder diagnosis. While data have pointed to this fact for several years, psychiatrists are beginning to assess the ramifications of this finding for blacks and how it adds a host of complicating factors to their treatment. http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/36/10/17

CONCLUSIONS: The study suggests the possibility of racial and other disparities in the diagnosis and treatment of patients with schizophrenia and comorbid affective and anxiety disorders. Although various causal explanations are plausible, all point toward the need for enhanced cross-cultural competence at all levels of mental health care, especially in the diagnosis and treatment of comorbid psychiatric illnesses. http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/52/9/1216

Causes, Effects, and Resolutions for Misdiagnosis of
African Americans in the Mental Health Sector http://freednerd.wordpress.com/2006/10/
The (Mis)Diagnosis of Mental Disorder in African Americans
Harold W. Neighbors, Associate Professor, Department of Health Behavior and Health Education, School of Public
Health, The University of Michigan www.rcgd.isr.umich.edu/prba/perspectives/winter1997/hneighbors.pdf
Clinical Depression And African Americans http://www.health.am/ab/more/clinical_depression_and_african_americans/
Dec 1, 1999 | It took only a few weeks on the job for William Lawson to notice that there was something very strange going on. The psychiatrist had just joined the staff of the John L. McClellan Veterans Hospital in North Little Rock, Ark., and already he had seen patient after patient -- dozens of them, as it turned out -- with the same ill-fitting diagnosis. All African-American men, all veterans of combat in the Vietnam War, they suffered from terrifying nightmares, gut-twisting anxiety, flashbacks of fighting -- classic symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Yet they'd been assigned a very different condition: schizophrenia. http://dir.salon.com/story/books/it/1999/12/01/schizo?sid=476003

I rest my case. You can't deny racism and be blind to it when it obviously exists that even president admits it. Even American Civil Liberties Union says that it's a problem in USA.

So don't try to paint me as as some ignorant,stupid person. Civil rights laws don't wipe out all racism.

Raymond

posted September 04, 2008 10:39 PM            

Many blacks would agree too. I know that MamaMia would agree. She goes to that church.

Dr. King did say that US govt was the greatest purveyor of violence in the world when he spoke out against the Vietnam War. He even called out USA on its racism...he even said that the vast majority of whites are racist..consciously or unconsciously. He even believed that USA could blacks in concentration camps like they did to the Japanese during World War 2. That stuff is already posted in the thread.

He left his most passionate criticism in the black church. Wright did the same thing. It's that people brought it out in the open.

Dr. King was treated like a pariah in his last years. He was viewed as communist too. He did believe that we move towards a democratic socialism. He believed that USA was doing enough for the poor.

I think too many people only know Dr. King from his I HAVE A DREAM SPEECH, but not the later Dr. King that was spoke out against the Vietnam War and called out USA on its racism and was even cynical about race relations. The article shows that. It's already posted in this thread.
posted September 04, 2008 04:35 PM
-
The prophetic anger of MLK
After 1965, the civil rights leader grew angrier over America’s unwillingness to change.
By Michael Eric Dyson

There is still a lot of racism in USA today. It's just more subtle. Of course,we have bad foreign policies. Therefore, Wright has good reasons to speak out against those things. That doesn't make him full of hate. I think that the people that threated him and his church because of the things that he said are full of hate and prove his point. Let's not forget that there are over 800 hategroups here in USA including Klu Klux Klan and Aryan Nations.

You can't deny that many people are treated like crap out of self righteousness that is transferred to our policies overseas that includes killing innocent people.

A lot of people in USA hide their bigotry in the cloak of religion.

I wish a lot of white Americans would stop being in denial about racism in USA. It really insults many Black Americans.

posted September 05, 2008 09:58 AM            

Wright is racist. It has been proven through his own words. He is NOT even close to MLK.. Not by a long shot.

By your words and the tone in your posts, since I have seen you here on LL, you are the one that constantly sees racism in ever corner and around every paragraph.

_______________

posted September 05, 2008 02:56 PM            

Wright's passion is a fair antidote for the blindness and apathy that's taken hold of so many Americans in respect to what their government is really up to, at home and abroad. I listened to his entire speech about diversity, and then I saw what the press did to it. Wright was acknowledging that there are differences between cultures and peoples, expressing his personal opinion as to what some of those differences are, while emphasizing our need to respect and celebrate those differences, without placing them into any kind of rigid, hierarchical context. The press just heard him talking about differences and seized on it, accusing him of instigating rivalries and divisions. Maybe that is how they see it, but its not how Wright sees it, and its not at all what he was saying. But this just goes to show the importance of his words, and how far so many people still are from understanding them. "Different, but not difficient." That was the theme of his sermon. "Different does not mean deficient." The media could have focused on that. Instead they went with the juicier story. But thats reporters for you; always trying to stir up trouble. Wright is a good man. He's done a lot for his community, and openned many people's eyes to the insensitive policies of their government. Although there will always be some whose knee-jerk conservatism causes them to balk and carp and the slightest deviation from the norm, Jeremiah Wright's colorful and provocative style have clearly struck a powerful chord in the hearts of many Americans, including myself.

posted September 05, 2008 03:16 PM            

Anyone who would sit in that church and listen to that loony tune's ravings can't be all there, intellectually.