posted December 28, 2007 12:21 PM         

"I wanna get high. Sooo high", croon the speakers ..and I do.

I could tell you how it came to this, but only some of you will ever understand.

Yea, it's my busted ribs, busted now 5 years with no hospital willing to touch the operation...since I have no insurance. But I was smoking to maintain...long before this.

Some of you won't understand, and as I said, some of you will. Those of you who, like me find the notion of being forced to watch this parade of human misery; to sit down, shut up and WATCH..excruciating.

"Get involved man." Nooooooo! Not yet. Not that! Hold on...let me light this up.

There we go, ok where are all of the crazy suffering people? Where are all of the f---ed up, f---ing me up, f---ing themselves up, f---ing each other up people? I'm ready now..let's get this done.

People like me, strongly empathic people who think about others constantly, and feel their pains deeply; we deal with your horrific, stupid, mean, petty ways all day long. It hurts.

Some of us try to lash out..but that never lasts long. You can't hate the pain and make the pain.

Some of us bury our heads in gambling, booze, shopping, movies, video games..whatever escape we can find; and live with.

Every day, like you, we deal with this ridiculous march of the mad into madness. Unlike you, we can't just NOT think about people. Unlike you we CAN'T just "switch" out of feeling for everyone at times.

I am only just NOW learning to focus on MY wants, MY needs, MY advantage. It sucks..I hate it. And then some of you have the balls to tell us to deal with it sober..or find some other escape.

No, YOU deal with it. I AM handling it. I am maintaining my ability to function in this moron-molded morass. You deal with it.

posted December 28, 2007 04:13 PM         

I'm not a stoner but have been known to self-medicate in other ways and can relate to so much of what you just wrote.

Especially at this point in time.

quote:

---

Some of you won't understand, and as I said, some of you will. Those of you who, like me find the notion of being forced to watch this parade of human misery; to sit down, shut up and WATCH..excruciating.

---

quote:

---

People like me, strongly empathic people who think about others constantly, and feel their pains deeply; we deal with your horrific, stupid, mean, petty ways all day long. It hurts.

Some of us try to lash out..but that never lasts long. You can't hate the pain and make the pain.

No, YOU deal with it. I AM handling it. I am maintaining my ability to function in this moron-molded morass. You deal with it.

---

THANK YOU.

it felt good to let that out.

oh.. that was you.

posted December 29, 2007 09:47 AM         

I find it so absolutely idiotic that people can judge others for their choices in life, who is to say what is the correct path for another.

My motto has always been live and let live, just do not assert negative ******** onto me, leave me and mine be and do whatever the hell you want to do!

But then again, I do not judge. If an individual wants to spend his life homeless in a ditch, drunk on cheap beer, then I say go for it!!! If someone wants to make billions of dollars and spend her life in a hilltop mansion, I say go fot it!!! (but I will bet the homeless alcoholic would more of an interesting individual to talk to! )

When people choose to judge me, I ask them kindly, walk a lifetime in my shoes, then reconsider your judgments.

And you are correct, there are all kinds of escapsim out there, sex, shopping, etc. that are not of the god-awful world of drugs and alcohol so they are "ok."

posted December 29, 2007 09:48 AM         

"Think for yourself, question authority"

posted December 29, 2007 10:20 AM         

Daf - I'm sorry that you are still battling this. I know that you have tried to quit several times in the past and I can only imagine how difficult it has been for you.

posted December 29, 2007 10:36 AM         

Thanks for the words of concern. Certainly your concern is appreciated (and not at all misguided in this case.)

For anyone reading, the only moments of "enlightenment" I've ever had, were after I'd been weed free for a month or two.

Now I'm just lightheaded and done fighting. Let the Lord decide my habit's disposition. I'm tired of trying.

posted December 29, 2007 11:47 AM         

I don't judge, if someone chooses to lead his/her life in a particular way, then have at it.

And I only say tea totalin' because in my experience it is those who do not partake in any form of escapism who are the first to judge, those who are so molded and formed by societal/religious standards that they have no mind left of their own.

Sure an individual can be totally free of over-indulgence of any kind, drugs, alcohol, sex, food, TV, internet, books, shopping, religion etc. and be so free that they are able to free others to be who they will be, a rare individual indeed.

I do become quite amused, tho, at those individuals who are so uptight that they DO choose to judge, and those are the ones who come to MY door, entering MY property, enter MY energy space in a parking lot. etc. trying to tell ME how to live MY life.

posted December 29, 2007 12:44 PM         

quote:

---

I do become quite amused, tho, at those individuals who are so uptight that they DO choose to judge, and those are the ones who come to MY door, entering MY property, enter MY energy space in a parking lot. etc. trying to tell ME how to live MY life.

---

Someone is doing this to you?

quote:

---

And I only say tea totalin' because in my experience it is those who do not partake in any form of escapism who are the first to judge, those who are so molded and formed by societal/religious standards that they have no mind left of their own.

---

Understood. There's a good deal of molding going around, isn't there? In my experience, (and it was a sad day when I realized this) the "alternative" segment of society has standards/rules as deeply dogmatic as does the mainstream, and is just as efficient at pacifying the individual will.

posted December 29, 2007 12:57 PM         

Well, first of all, I can relate.
And I'm definitely not going to judge you.

I'm a pothead.
I know the stigma.

I know there's a lot of judgement directed at you,
and its hard not to internalize that,
and it sucks to have to prove yourself,
to others and to yourself.

More than anything,
you just want a break from the maelstrom.

An island in the sun, away from the monotony,
the caucaphony of self-righteous mediocrity,
the ignorance, complacency, indecency, and disfunction.

You feel responsible for the suffering world.
How did this happen? What wrong turn was it?

Like a wild animal, you are desperate to escape this circus;
the cages, the prods, the loud, humiliating crowds.

Everyone makes claims on you.
Nobody will just let you be you.
Everybody has some nugget of criticism
they want to construct up your ass.

Stress is a constant.
While others vent it in socially acceptable ways, -
ways which, nevertheless,
inflict emotional violence on themselves and others, -
you found a plant that relaxes your inflamed nerves,
and rounds the edges of your sharp intellect,
if only for a little while.

And now the very thing that gives you solace,
one of the only refuges you've managed to find in this world,
something that pacifies you and softens your disposition,
is the object of small-minded ridicule and derision,
and you yourself are seen as part of the problem.

I know.

I do find that, for myself,
it becomes a serious hinderance,
after a point, and that,
in order to avoid excess,
it helps to find a variety of outlets.
Creative writing helps me.
Reading helps.
And relationships are paramount.

My only wish for you is that you will go easy on yourself.
You can be your best, most understanding friend,
or just a rough, impersonal taskmaster to yourself.
My advice to you is the same I try to give myself.

I wish you peace.

hsc

posted December 29, 2007 11:30 PM         

Not concern really. I know you'll overcome all this.

Just offering sympathy and an acknowledgement of the fight. (tea too ... as always ... if you're interested. though I suspect you're not. it's my doom, of course. begrudgingly i admit that perhaps stephen was a bit right about that damn duncan thing)

Sometimes, I feel, all pain really wants is to be acknowledged.

posted December 30, 2007 09:40 AM         

No post of mine will ever encompass all of my impressions of the world. What I wrote here was an attempt to empathize, and to express that part of myself (or that dimension of "my" experience) which suffers and seeks alleviation from suffering. If I erred on the side of exaggerration, that is less to be regretted than if I had failed to make clear to Daf the depth of my sympathy and understanding. My impressions of the world often are starkly unsettling. My Pisces SouthNode often seeks escape and ego-dissolution. And I am in full agreement with you that it is cathartic to acknowledge these things honestly and unjudgmentally. But I think fully acknowledging pain is painful, and it makes sense to avoid the full, undilluted, direct and immediate experience of one's own pain -which, if one is particularly empathetic, often includes the pain of a great many others as well. In any case, I'm not sure it is my place to tell others what to do with their pain, - especially if it is something I am unwilling or incapable of doing myself. The longer I live, the more keenly I seem to see the frailty of humankind, and the more easily is my sympathy awakened. For every instance of the self-trascendant human spirit, there are dozens, if not hundreds of instances of quiet, bewildered desperation and slow, progressive degeneration. The human will fashioned by fate to withstand her rude vicissitudes all alone is a rare marvel. It is not an expectation to lay indiscriminantly on the backs of ourselves or our brothers. I see marijuana as an ally, a spirit guide, helper, or partner. As with all relationships, there are dangers. There are dangers everywhere. Co-operation always is in danger of turning to co-dependence. On an evolutionary level, the Canabis plant acts partly as a symbiote, proliferating itself by attracting a human host. Cross-pollination by humans has given rise to novel species of Canabis!, to say nothing of the constant growing and cultivation of the plant by humans. The benefits of co-operation to the plant are evident, as is the corresponding appeal for those of us who smoke it. You seem to assume that it is necessarily something to be overcome, and that there is necessarily a fight. I think the fight is potentially elsewhere, and that every person must work out for themselves, individually, what for them constitues an ally, a necessary crutch, or a superfluous and purely destructive dependency. We all have bad habits, and arguments can always be made as to what evils are the lesser evils, and/or the necessary evils. Something like marijuana, which, in many people's opinion, has more positive than negative attributes, cannot even be readily classified as an evil, so the problem of whether it is more or less evil than another evil, and the extent to which it is necessary, does not even enter the question for many people. Yet you begin with the assumption that it is an adversary to be overcome. Everything that helps us is, then, an adversary? For all props weaken independence. Every relationship. Every hobby. However we spend our time, whatever relaxes us and serves as recreation. All of these are to be fought and overcome? Everything that involves us is against us? Everything that has a price is there to cheat us? Perhaps not.

hsc

posted December 30, 2007 11:09 AM         

Given your position, your post is certainly understandable. Given your state of mind, your drug use is also understandable. Likewise, the need to muster an unrequired defense.

The difference in tone, rather than content, between your post and daf's is illuminating and worth a bit of contemplation, I think.

At any rate ... my first and last posts were directed towards daf and I trust he understood me.

passing clouds do not obscure the moonlight

posted December 30, 2007 11:53 AM         

quote:

---

Given your position, your post is certainly understandable.
Given your state of mind, your drug use is also understandable.

---

Are you insinuating something?
Would you care enough to make it clear?

quote:

---

Likewise, the need to muster an unrequired defense.

---

I do many things which I am not,
and do not consider myself, required to do.
I do them because I want to do them.
Theres no reason to assume that I was defending anything,
or that I felt a need of any sort.

quote:

---

The difference in tone, rather than content, between your post and daf's is illuminating and worth a bit of contemplation, I think.

---

If you mean my first post and Daf's first post,
both evidenced a hypersensitivity and hostility
towards judgemental, conservative mindsets.
He sought to justify his drug use,
and I sought to justify it for him.
What difference in tone is there,
other than the tone of our personalities?
Again, if you really have something to say,
I would invite you to make yourself clear.
If you care enough to respond,
surely you care enough to be clear?

I assure you, if you make an honest effort,
I wont infer any paranoid, compulsive, or defensive motives on your part,
and/or patronizingly dismiss your logic as "understandable",
condescendingly attributing it to your mental state,
and self-righteously judging you responsible for that.

posted December 30, 2007 12:27 PM         

I do them because I want to do them

Of course. A nice summation. Few amongst us are beyond that state. I know I'm not. I was pointing out the possible reason behind the desire. And, as I said, it is a perfectly understandable one.

I was referring to daf's first and your last post. And again, the tone rather than the content.

Perhaps clarity is also in the eye of the beholder?

posted December 30, 2007 12:48 PM         

That is quite a great point, HSC. As I learned from Eckhart Tolle's writing, fighting the Ego only creates more ego. So to break away from any activity "for the purpose of breaking away from that activitiy" (i.e. without truly understanding the purpose or reason propelling such a course of action) will inevitably be unfruitful. I believe that is the cause for the many "failed" attempts at quitting substance-abusive behaviors. The key focus, IMO, should be the "substance-abuse" per se. If a person exhibiting such behavior comes to such a realization of their own actions, then the typical response is to stop the behavior in "cold-turkey", or mentally similar, fashion. This, I feel, is a reaction to the stigma placed on such behavior by our society's mass perception, the diagnosis of "substance-abuse" as an illegitimate behavior when it is such a natural, humanistic response, and the sheer experience of the physical degeneration of the body when this behavior is practiced in an extreme. A practical, though unconventional, method of dealing with such abuse is to accept the use of the substance (if it does not cause others any harm) as understandable, just as our society accepts the drinking of wine or beer at a meal, or during a game, or the smoking of a cigarette during a break at work. The problem is that the use of any other substance in a delightful, unobtrusive and psyche-ologically sustaining method is an illicit activity, therefore, making it much harder on the general public to find a balance within the use of substances without abusing them. I'd say that the very root of this problem is the very root of almost all of our problems that may be abridged by the deepest meaning of the number 18's "Spiritual Material Conflict".

That said, I would like to make it clear that I DO NOT think the use of any and all substances is right in any, or all, cases. In fact, I feel that the appropriate use of any substance (including food) will lead away from a dependence on that substance (and it should be admitted that there is hardly a way that one may "use" anything without a kind of dependence there growing). It is only my hope that it is possible to discover a Divine balance (by which I mean a prevailing harmony of living that perfectly matches the autonomy of an individual in a progressive approach), in which case a "reliance" would transcend any "dependence". Be not fooled by the lying dictionaries either, for a "Reliance" (in the highest sense) is in no way anything equal to "dependence" save for the act of trust in both cases. In brief, a "Reliance" is an act of Faith, whereas a "dependence" seeks only a primal nurturing.

P.S.

quote:

---

Sometimes, I feel, all pain really wants is to be acknowledged.

---

I feel, also, that pain requires that it be divinely accepted.

Steiner once said, and I quote his translator:
"To human consciousness, death is nothing more than bending three dimensions into four dimensions. With regard to the physical body taken by itself, the opposite is true: death is the flattening of four dimensions into three."

Pain is experienced by Us in a third-dimensional environment but its source is, in fact, in a higher dimension because it comes about through consciousness. Only living things may experience pain by the life of their own consciousness. And pain is, simply, an experience that leads us away from our centering. Though, if we understood it well and could perceive the role of pain and its metamorphosis within its Fourth-Dimensional environment, then we could truly work with Faith.

James 2:14, 20
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?"
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

And, equally, works without Faith lead only to the death of the Spirit.

posted December 30, 2007 02:30 PM         

......But, If we look at James statement and we Know precisely what Faith is, wouldn`t works be an automatic state of practice?? Not something that needs expounded on???

Always wondered about that. There must have been a durn good reason it was such a hot topic. I have my theory.....

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted December 30, 2007 02:55 PM         

Lets have a little demonstration of the “Travelers and the Grapes” here.

First, Tink said twice that she is commenting on the difference in TONE between HSC and Daf. Not a personality difference, a TONE difference. As she has indicated, all perfectly understandable, and with a few terms, understandable to everyone.

The tone difference is the difference between the first level of the nafs and the second level of the nafs (there are “seven levels of the nafs” if anyone wants to look them up). The first level is related to the “self”/nafs in an external battle. An external battle with the outside world. So it is “me against them”. The second level of the nafs is characterized by the battle moving inward. It then becomes “me against me”. It is an acknowledgement that the source is internal so the fix must be sought internally as well.

Now, the mass of humanity is in the first struggle, me against them. Some other sectors of the population are in the second struggle, me against me. And people move between these two stages in infinite forms and proportions. So, a “tone’ difference in this post and with respect to this issue, is that Daf currently lives more in the second stage and HSC lives more in the first stage. Perfectly understandable since Daf is older, more experienced and has actually seen a glimpse beyond the second stage to the third (inspired nafs). It would be exceedingly odd if there were not a tone difference.

Daf knows very well that in order to move to the third stage, he must purify his body from toxins and purify his mind from the illusory war of “me and them”. Then he will have more access to the third stage. HSC does not realize this necessity, but, inshahallah, will at some time.

May we all transcend our limitations and find our Work pleasing to the Lord.

posted December 30, 2007 03:45 PM         

As the adage goes, "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water."
And the difference between the two is magnanimous.

Unfortunately, the meaning of the word "Faith" is not properly understood if "works" are isolated as something separate from it. There is no such thing as a Faith that is not practiced, for Faith is such that its meaning is fulfilled when it is practiced. Before that precise moment, it is only a belief at best. I think that is what the author of the epistle was aiming at: the inaccuracy of public thought in understanding the entire scope of Faith. That is, that "Faith" without "works" is dead.
Yet, many believe that the simple belief in a King that has risen shall save them from wrong. A watering down, of sorts. It sort of reminds me of that game, "Telephone", I played as a kid. We all here probably know the one I'm referencing; it starts with one person that whispers a sentence into the next person's ear and as the next person tries to whisper the sentence to the next person, the words get changed and jarbled the further down the line the message goes. It seems the same is true for the deepest Truths in Life. The only way to really understand the original message is to speak to the source of that message and the only way to do that is to speak to one's Self. Therein is God channeled through the senses' experience, for therein is God.

Wonderful path of ideas here...

BTW, juni, I don't know if you used that pun on purpose but it was hilarious, regardless. "pebble" in a stoner thread!

posted December 31, 2007 12:43 AM         

You've denied all other potential moments, places, awakenings and humilities
in a single swoop by placing Daf and Stephen into a mold of definition.

A Free Being will not be hindered by such
attempts at confinement; will keep soaring beyond them as they were.
But a suffering Being may be just vulnerable enough to allow themselves to become crippling confined, even if temporarily. It's a potential anyway. The potential is always there, or we should consider the possibility it could be.

Our touch upon each other is a delicate
responsibility.
It can be. We shouldn't be hasty in our conclusions, when it comes to all the possibilities of others that we do not see,
with our random senses.

I'll take the heat again
because I'm curious what your game is.

Questioning is not censoring. (as was implied before when I questioned you)
It's an opening for understanding.
And honestly too,
a protection; a caring. Awareness keeps us free.

When you understand this scripture,
throw it away.
If you can't understand this scripture,
throw it away.
I insist on your freedom. ~ J. Kerouac