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Author Topic:   TGem's Love Grand Tableau
LeeLoo2014
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From: Venus cornering Neptune
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posted November 08, 2014 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll get back with an interpretation, but it looks the cards won't tell us much about your future love life, Tgem, because right now you're still very connected with the past and trying to sort past things out. You are at the end of a cycle. The cards show a lot about your past and your current situation. The only cards in your future are Cross, Tree and Book, and only the near future is shown. Interestingly, Tree and Book are the cutting cards.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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Ceridwen
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posted November 08, 2014 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
which deck is this?

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 08, 2014 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Piatnik

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Ceridwen
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posted November 08, 2014 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks. I am rather fond of the Heart-card in this deck

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 08, 2014 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, tgem, I'm a beginner so let's practice together But I've been learning and practicing the time sequence and it seems to work rather fine.

First let's try and identify the characters here. As you can see, there's no man in the near future, since there are a lot of characters and complications in the past-present.

You are in the house of the heart now, holding your Marriage in your thoughts and as we can see from the 1st 3 cards also, your marriage is the most important issue now. We can even see two men at the beginning of your spread, Heart and Fish, with a Whip between them. And in the house of whip we see the Child.

Back to you, you're a bit lonely and dreamy, also thinking or having thought about this Snake woman. Your heart however holds the desire to know certain things that you don't know yet but they will be revealed to you soon enough: Book in the house of the Moon, with Moon in Lilly and Lilly is this Man - which I believe may be Cusp, perhaps?? He is connected to Mountain and the Snake woman.

The Stars are very strong for you now, being in the house of the Stars (Marriage), but there is some pain in the near future: Cross plus Tree, with Sun in the house of the Tree. I think the man in this spread is your husband, he is in the House house, he seems to be in a relationship with this Stork and this may cause you pain for a while. The Man has in his past a fight with you, and although there is Sun between him and Stork, he faces a lot of anxiety and confusion. With you, he faces Ring plus Bear plus Cross, and you both meet on Cross. I'm afraid Bear is in the house of the Crossroad, so a separation is possible. Before that, he faces some conflicts related to a child followed by a rapid evolution of things. But he's looking for a solution, and the solution will be related to the Ship card.

How am I doing?

We can't analyze your future much in here, but we can analyze the other characters more: the Man, the Snake woman, the Lilly, the relationship between Man and Stork etc.


Maybe Stork is not a person?

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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LeeLoo2014
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From: Venus cornering Neptune
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posted November 08, 2014 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After mirroring, I see you have Mice + Stars, from the past (in the house of the Flowers) projected into your current thoughts: regretting a loss related to love, happiness, your marriage?

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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Ceridwen
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posted November 08, 2014 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whose reading method are you applying?

BTW did you use an online calculator?
Somehow, I don`t know, I do not trust these too much. But maybe it is just a matter of preference.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 08, 2014 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not sure who's method for reading time sequences is, but it's different from Treppner's.

This is what happened. I had a problem with this method (Treppner), intuitively. To me, it seems the sequences of cards is always from the 1st to the last. Then I've been reading case examples in my own languages and it seems many readers use the method I perceived intuitively. Then I casted various GT's with various questions/persons and I think this is the right way, so far.

The idea is as follows, giving tgem's spread as an example, when it comes to time frame, the sequence is - for the Woman as an example:

1st lot (past) Tower + Stork
2nd lot (past): Snake, but this is very present in her mind
then comes 3rd lot (past) everything from Bird to Letter, with Letter very much on her mind
next lot (present/future) is the Book
and the last lot (last future shown by this thread): Cross plus Tree

I've been using this online spread until now and it appears to show things quite accurately. I've tried to ask questions that describe situations I know, for verification and yes - well virtual readings can be as accurate as physical ones, although your own deck is of course, more "magical".


If you want, I can cast a GT for you too, tomorrow.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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Ceridwen
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posted November 08, 2014 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
for me it is actually different, depending on the spreads.

While I have only ever read about first card being the noun and the second card the influence/ adjective, and while this has always proved to be very accurate, at the same time I also use it in a linear way (past to future; the cards before the significator being that which came before or was the reason leading up to the present; the cards after the significator being future oriented, or the result of what came before), especially in a linear spread.


Apart from that I find the method of attendance or proximity most convincing. the touching cards are those that are central, of course we can still use a card, 5 cards away from the significator, but it will not be that important (unless there are some correspondences through mirroring or knighting for example).


however in this spread imo the cross is in the recent past of Tgem, being left and below lady.

The fateline is very unique and of course a mesage for the future, actually it depends how we activate it what it means, but anyway, let`s say it is the summary for the future.
But that is just the fateline (and the cards right of significator), this does not extend to the diagonal.


but I suppose like so often there are many different methods, and it probably is necessary to find one that works for oneself and be consistent about it.


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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 08, 2014 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:

but I suppose like so often there are many different methods, and it probably is necessary to find one that works for oneself and be consistent about it.


I agree, you're right, Ceri.

however in this spread imo the cross is in the recent past of Tgem, being left and below lady.

This is the Treppner method of reading time: everything to the left of the lady is past, everything to the right is future. However, I have a bit of a problem with this - it seems more logical to me to use the method I used here (which apparently is quite common): everything UNTIL the lady (which is everything above her row and the left on her row) is the past and everything AFTER the lady is the future (the rest of the row ahead of her and all rows below her).

This means the upper diagonals are always the past: distant for left and more recent for right. The upper part of a diagonal leads to the follow up in the future part of the diagonal, the part below. A future diagonal leading to a Fate Line card is always the last, the more distant future.

The whole idea, which makes sense to me is that the cards after the lady, one by one, are always the future. Basically, the rows above her are the past, the rows below her, the future. I can feel, intuitively, establishing the time sequence in Lenormand to be very important, just like in large tarot spreads. But of course, this is just a method. With this method, diagonals are crucial in reading.

I agree with you, the 8 surrounding cards are always important and describe the current situation of the significator.

There's also the interesting part of the intersections. If you want to see what has happened or will happen between the lady and the gentleman, you only look at their intersection cards (in their past and in their future) and you focus on interpreting those (with houses and surrounding connections)

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 08, 2014 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To give an example of intersections here - tgem, I hope you don't mind if we use your spread for practice

the only intersections cards between the lady and the man are:

Stork, in the lady's past (leading to a separation, isolation for her - the Tower), but Stork is near the man, in his immediate future.

Snake in the lady's past, but in her mind, preoccupation, also in the man's immediate future

Bear in the man's more distant future, but for the lady it's already a past matter, something she put behind, although recent

and

Cross - actually they meet on Cross and it's their last card together, in this spread. This Cross will lead to Tree and the Fate line for the lady.

These are the key cards, the past and the future of lady and man for now, this is how I see it.

EDIT: the man also has a future line leading to Clouds, and since it's the lady's fate line in this spread, obviously Clouds affect her too.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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Ceridwen
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posted November 08, 2014 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Basically, the rows above her are the past, the rows below her, the future."
So I think the difference is that you read mostly vertically, while I am reading mostly horizontally.

BTW I haven`t read Treppner`s course, but have read about the method I use in several books of different authors. Unless they all copied from each other, it does not seem to be only the Treppner method.

Anyway maybe because I started with tarot, it makes more sense to me to see the left as indicative of the past (after all it is what we "left" behind) and what is to the right in the future.
For me personally it does not make sense to use the right upper diagonal as past related and the lower diagonal as future.
But maybe that is just a matter of preference.

However I would be curious where have you seen that method?
I have never come across it before.


"If you want to see what has happened or will happen between the lady and the gentleman, you only look at their intersection cards (in their past and in their future) and you focus on interpreting those (with houses and surrounding connections)"
Yes, it is always one of the things I am looking for.

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tgem
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posted November 08, 2014 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tgem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow....I'm so confused LOL.
Can we take this one step at a time?

So in thinking about my marriage??!! AHHHH!! I don't want to think of my marriage anymore let's move on :laugh:

Kidding...ok so what do I need to know to here again? Let's let's identity characters.

Sorry you all are going to have to have to be patient with me...this is Greek to me.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 08, 2014 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:

However I would be curious where have you seen that method?
I have never come across it before.



Yes, exactly, it's a vertical reading. It makes sense to me because here in Lenormand we have the houses starting from 1 to 36, I don't know why , but this is how I feel it.


Really?? It seems to be the method of election for readers in my own language - I've been reading two message boards by now and this is what most of them use. I haven't identified it yet, its origin, haven't had the time lol If I come across it in English, I let you know. But I embraced because just before seeing it I was thinking about the vertical being more appropriate for Lenormand. But I'm still new, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...so far it works rather good.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 08, 2014 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tgem:
Wow....I'm so confused LOL.
Can we take this one step at a time?

So in thinking about my marriage??!! AHHHH!! I don't want to think of my marriage anymore let's move on :laugh:

Kidding...ok so what do I need to know to here again? Let's let's identity characters.

Sorry you all are going to have to have to be patient with me...this is Greek to me.



lol you're right...well, tgem, most of the cards here are about your past...as you can see, you're at the end of the line so to speak lol with only the fate line (the last 4 cards) before you. This means you're still sorting out the past and the future is a bit unknown, it's the end of a cycle.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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tgem
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posted November 08, 2014 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tgem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Awe man...I have no romantic future BOOO ...

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Dancing Maenad
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posted November 08, 2014 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dancing Maenad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tgem:
Awe man...I have no romantic future BOOO ...

Not true, the spread is merely emphasizing you need to solve your past first, before you can think about the future..

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~the raving one dancing in the nude~

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 09, 2014 06:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
Not true, the spread is merely emphasizing you need to solve your past first, before you can think about the future..


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Ceridwen
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posted November 09, 2014 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Yes, exactly, it's a vertical reading. It makes sense to me because here in Lenormand we have the houses starting from 1 to 36, I don't know why , but this is how I feel it.


Really?? It seems to be the method of election for readers in my own language - I've been reading two message boards by now and this is what most of them use. I haven't identified it yet, its origin, haven't had the time lol If I come across it in English, I let you know. But I embraced because just before seeing it I was thinking about the vertical being more appropriate for Lenormand. But I'm still new, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...so far it works rather good.



For me the horizontal one works well too. Possibly it is just really a matter of setting out the intention. So since you were drawing the cards with that in mind, they should be interpreted YOUR way, while probably my own spread would be more horizontally oriented.

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tgem
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posted November 09, 2014 07:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tgem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok...can someone help me interpret what's going on here with my present?

The man probably is my husband (ex) I would guess the stork would be the other woman? He is in a relationship.

Let's look at that aspect of things as that does weigh on my mind. What do the cards say about him? Ring + bear + cross definitely indicates a painful divorce with me and yes, we will ultimately divorce as that is what I want. Interesting that it shows they (him and stork) could have an issue with a child (horary told me he'll get her pregnant but she'll lose the baby). Could this be seen here?
BTW: moon in Lily connected to mountain and snake could definitely be Cusp given he's surrounded by obstacles and a deceitful woman...but that's for later.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 09, 2014 08:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tgem:
Interesting that it shows they (him and stork) could have an issue with a child (horary told me he'll get her pregnant but she'll lose the baby). Could this be seen here?

I'm afraid this is possible. I saw something unfortunate related to a child, from his side.

On the other hand, it is also possible they fight because of another man. She's connected to two men here (by houses)

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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tgem
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posted November 09, 2014 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tgem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I'm afraid this is possible. I saw something unfortunate related to a child, from his side.

On the other hand, it is also possible they fight because of another man. She's connected to two men here (by houses)

Wow...oh yeah, I can see that. I've heard she doesn't want to commit to him because she likes "having options". He'll get upset by this because he has jealousy and possessive issues. Very very interesting!!! Ooh tell me more tell me more!!!!


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tgem
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posted November 09, 2014 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tgem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ that can also be why the snake is related to his near future. He'll realize she is seeing other men and be confused (clouds) how am I doing?

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 09, 2014 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it's difficult to tell based on this thread, because you are the sig.

They are both facing Mountain plus Snake, which means a blockage, a dead end or a powerful enemy/obstacle. If it's an enemy, it must be a woman. He's the one holding her, with Sun/Tree - long term intentions - she's ahead of him. And knighting her with Anchor. Plus she's knighting Scythe, something he fears in his heart. - Scythe in the House of Birds - discussing separation.

However, they're holding a lot of matrimony cards together in the future, although the long-term outcome doesn't look very rosy, their relationship seems to continue But as I was saying, it's misleading, another spread is recommended for their relationship.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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LeeLoo2014
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posted November 09, 2014 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As Ceri pointed out, it's important to focus on the question ONLY, since the spread is about the question. We can evaluate their role in your life, but a complex description of the relationship between them may be misleading. I dunno, just thinking

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