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Author
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Topic: what do YOU believe in?
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alchemiest
Knowflake Posts: 631
From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted January 09, 2004 03:21 AM
 
As I sit here in beautiful sultry climes, full of the remnants of a delicious lunch and about a pound of chocolate (I hope everyone else is enjoying winter as much as I am  ), I’m feeling pretty contented. And as generally happens when I am contented, I have turned contemplative. For some obscure reason, I have started thinking about beliefs and their justifications.
From a conversation I had a couple of days ago, I realized something that I had never really noticed before- people handle sets of beliefs in different ways, especially those of a religious nature.
When one belief in a set is proven to be false or detrimental to the remaining whole, certain people may automatically reject every belief in that set regardless of individual truth simply because in their eyes, one falsity is enough to condemn the whole system. Conversely, others may grimly latch on to every single other belief within the system, unwilling to let go of any of the remainder until they have been proven false beyond all reasonable doubt- a criterion that they may then vehemently overlook or warp in their zealous attitude towards their ideas. Rather pointless approaches, the both of them. But then I thought, is there any approach that has a point, really? Even if you view all opinions with an unbiased, open eye, what do you use to justify the ideas you accept- ideas of god, of the devil, of good, of evil, or even of the denial of all of these- how are they justified? Why should you believe them? Relying on books such as the Bible or any other ‘holy book’ for back-up in such justification seems redundant, since these books have quite obviously been created by man (and there is no proof whatsoever that these men were ever ‘inspired by god’) and have also been tampered with through the ages. Does one then base justifications on what others believe? On what they have been brought up to believe? But, in turn, how are THESE beliefs justified? What is the point of beliefs at all if they have no basis? Blind faith can, of course, overcome any problems one might have regarding the resort to such material, but such faith is, quite accurately, just that- blind. So how does one support ones’ beliefs? I mean, yeah, I guess we’ll all know the true nature of things once we’re dead, but fat lot of good that’s going to do us then as far as living is concerned. So, here’s a question I wanted to put forth to all of you (because I am now thinking about this and was curious to see what others’ views might be):
What are your beliefs regarding the nature of existence (so to speak), and why do you believe in what you believe?
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Aselzion
Moderator Posts: 1307
From: North Andover, MA
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted January 09, 2004 05:14 AM
Greetings Alchemist...Short answer... for myself a "belief" will come in front of me, from a book, a teacher, a conversation, a snatch of song or what have you, and ring some inner bell for me. Being somewhat of a pragmatist, I try to put that belief to a practical test. I take it for a test drive as it were... and if I can make a practical application of the "belief" I add it to my repertoire. Occasionally, I am not in a position to find a way to "work" the belief, but if it still rings that inner bell, I hold on to it somewhere, and generally speaking, the practical application will come at some later time, after I learn more about other things. As I learn more, as I progress along my Path, I may find reason to re-evaluate certain "beliefs" in light of new information or practical working... but does this mean that the belief was false? I don't believe that. I believe that it was my understanding that was not yet advanced enough to comprehend the "larger" truth behind the "belief". Now.. you mention religion... and I have long ago rejected the orthodox, spoonfed set of beliefs that came with my religion, by the simple expedient of giving the Religion up for Lent one year, and never picking it back up. I traded my Religion for Spirituality... my own quest for truth that has led me down many interesting roads. Yet always I question, I test and I try to apply what I am learning. So far, so good. That being said,in the matter of Faith... well, blind Faith has wrought many seeming miracles. And then there are the Laws behind them, waiting to be discovered, or uncovered. However, does understanding the Law abolish the Faith? Again, I don't believe so... the Faith seems to become a Knowing. Recall the words of a particular master: "...for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." I'm not sure if that helps any.. but this is what comes immediately to mind after having read your post. In the Light of Faith... A 
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"The ALL is MIND; the Universe is Mental." *** The Kybalion IP: Logged |
grayheart
Knowflake Posts: 215
From: Land O Love
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted January 09, 2004 11:07 AM
I with Aselzion on this one, I do not follow any orthodox religion, as I feel they are all flawed in some way, though they also all have at least some redeeming aspects. Personally, my beliefs are a collection of things I has found to have merit, or have just "felt right" to me. I am also always questioning everything, I look heavily into why things work the way they do, or at the very least a possible explanation of why. My beliefs are constantly evolving, and I am open to new ideas. I also feel that religion is an individual thing, and that no two people will really take true comfort in the exact same set of beliefs at the exact same time. My biggest gripe is with people who seek out those who believe differently than themselves and attempt to convert them to their own beliefs, this will only lead to unneeded conflict as more often than not they will do so by trying to convince the other that if they do not change beliefs they will be condemned to some kind of horrible punishment later. I could write a lot about my thoughts on that, but I don't want to bombard everyone with my beliefs all at once. IP: Logged |
trillian
Knowflake Posts: 4011
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted January 09, 2004 01:34 PM
Why, I've believed at least five impossible things before breakfast.  That may sound flip, but I believe everything and nothing. Ask me tomorrow.  IP: Logged |
alchemiest
Knowflake Posts: 631
From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted January 09, 2004 09:46 PM
LOL, trillian- how absolutely zen! Awesomeness
Grayheart and Aselzion, your views are similar to my own too. I think my greatest concern towards myself (that I have right now, anyway) is one of judgment. I mean, when people have beliefs, they then inadvertantly jugde others based on those beliefs, whether they mean to or not. True, by making a conscious effort, they can quell this tendency somewhat. However, one's basic reaction is to immedeately rear up against what one perceives to be 'wrong' or 'immoral'. It's upsetting, because, well, there really IS nothing to say that one individual's point of view is any more correct than another's. I guess it all depend's on which part of the elephant you're looking at.
But, even realizing this, I still find this balky reaction in myself, and it's unsettling.
Religion is all relativity, and I consider organised religion to be most cult-like indeed, with all the 'intelligence' of a cult to boot. So, I avoid it like the plague. But one's attitude toward beliefs in general seems to be, from what I can tell, quite similar to that of a fanatic towards religion (although hopefully a more diluted version). I think it might be human nature. Not sure. But it is something that I find more than a little disconcerting. IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 1775
From: Japan
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted February 04, 2004 11:38 AM
I just know what I know. Intuition, I suppose. There are things I know that I've known since I was a child, and there are things I've believed in that I've cast aside over the years because, when I finally really thought about them, I realized (intuitively) that they were not true. Whenever I come across a concept in a book, or conversation, or just by observation, I don't immediately proceed to judge it or to understand it. I just allow myself to experience it. And, somehow, I just know whether it is right for me or not, or whether it is just not true. What I know spans many religions and philosophies, "time" spans, and places, and though it may not make a lick of sense to anyone else, it is all true to me Of course, my natural curiosity leads me to check things out and research and try to validate what I accept, but that is all secondary and simply my materialistic side trying to find "proof" of things that can't truly be proved to everyone's satisfaction if they haven't experienced it for themselves, lol.IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 1775
From: Japan
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted February 04, 2004 11:54 AM
Oh yes, I forgot to address something.
Alchemiest, you mention the fact that people tend to judge other's beliefs. I don't see a problem with that at all, as long as you are judging the belief and not the person who believes it. I have no shame in admitting this. I cannot respect your beliefs if I know them to be untrue. It's as simple as that. If I truly and sincerely respected what somebody believed, then I would certainly believe it myself, because respect is not something I dish out without merit, at least not for things of this nature. If I believe (rather, KNOW, intuitively) you to be wrong in your thinking or your beliefs, then I cannot respect what you believe because it is flawed. However, and this is most important, I will always and forever respect and uphold your right to be wrong in my eyes, and I expect to be allowed to be wrong in your eyes. I don't believe in political correctness if it sacrifices Truth. We will all achieve an understanding of Truth, in our own way and in our own time. (And I am not talking about transient, perception based truths here ... but rather Universal truths.) And what does it really matter to John and Jane if I or anybody else thinks they are wrong if John and Jane think they are right? There is enough space for us to live amongst each other without intruding upon each other's minds and souls.Live and Let Live, Know Thy S-elf, and To Thine Own S-elf Be True! IP: Logged |
Blazini
Knowflake Posts: 58
From: boulder, co, usa
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted February 06, 2004 02:35 PM
I am also one that thinks organized religion does more to create separation, rather than unity among human beings. Although, I believe at the base of every major religion lies a universal knowledge. Which is why they have lasted so long.
It will not be long before we all see that the differences among human beings are microscopic compared to the differences between humans and the other races we share the cosmos with. How are we going to discern their true intentions? 
The path to God (for me) is through meditation, and feeling that inner connection everyday. The question is not to whom does God speak, but who listens?IP: Logged |
silverstone
Knowflake Posts: 1369
From:
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted March 18, 2007 05:57 AM
bump
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Lindaland
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