posted August 23, 2004 10:03 PM         

I am very interested, however, I start school tomorrow which will lessen even moreso the time I spend here.............

posted August 24, 2004 12:04 AM         

It starts with Thoreau, then moves on to Emerson. And please excuse the little bits of combative nonsense you'll see on that page. I was getting sucked into a lot of useless arguments in GU at the time, and was feeling pretty defensive.

Nephthys: yes! May the force be with you!

Sesame: 'Silmarillion' just means, basically, "of the Silmarils". The Silmarils were jewels crafted by the Ainur (similar to archangels?) and filled with a special light, and much of the book is concerned with them.

posted August 24, 2004 12:21 AM         

I like your elf idea paras =).

posted August 24, 2004 02:12 AM         

I always viewed the Elves as somewhat analagous to Angels.

Neph- I have a similar view of the concept of Universal Energy/Intelligence and "The Force". I would love to hear what George Lucas has to say about it

posted August 24, 2004 04:38 AM         

---

AINULINDALE

The Music of the Ainur

There was Eru, the One, who in Arda [Earth] is called Iluvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad. But for a long while they sang only each one alone, or but few together, while the rest hearkened; for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Iluvatar from which he came, and in the understanding of their brethren they grew but slowly. Yet ever as they listened they came to deeper understanding, and increased in unison and harmony.

And it came to pass that Iluvatar called together all the Ainur and declared to them a mighty theme, unfolding to them things greater and more wonderful than he had yet revealed; and the glory of its beginning and the splendour of its end amazed the Ainur, so that they bowed before Iluvatar and were silent.

Then Iluvatar said to them: 'Of the theme that I have declared to you, I will now that ye make in harmony together a Great Music. And since I have kindled you with the Flame Imperishable, ye shall show forth your powers in adorning this theme, each with his own thoughts and devices, if he will. But I will sit and hearken, and be glad that through you great beauty has been wakened into song.'

Then the voices of the Ainur, like unto harps and lutes, and pipes and trumpets, and viols and organs, and like unto countless choirs singing with words, began to fashion the theme of Iluvatar to a great music; and a sound arose of endless interchanging melodies woven in harmony that passed beyond hearing into the depths and into the heights, and the places of the dwelling of Iluvatar were filled to overflowing, and the music and the echo of the music went out into the Void, and it was not void. Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said that a greater still shall be made before Iluvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Iluvatar after the end of days. Then the themes of Iluvatar shall be played aright, and take Being in the moment of their utterance, for all shall then understand fully his intent in their part, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Iluvatar shall give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well pleased.

---

I find it interesting that the first manifestions of power in this story are through music, or sound.

Now we come to the part that mirrors the legends of Lucifer/Satan/Set, and the birth of "evil":

---

But now Iluvatar sat and hearkened, and for a great while it seemed good to him, for in the music there were no flaws. But as the theme progressed, it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Iluvatar, for he sought therein to increase the power and glory of the part assigned to himself. To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of power and knowledge, and he had a share in all the gifts of his brethren. He had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own, and it seemed to him that Iluvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness. Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Iluvatar. But being alone he had begun to conceive thoughts of his own unlike those of his brethren.
Some of these thoughts he now wove into his music, and straightway discord arose about him, and many that sang nigh him grew despondent, and their thought was disturbed and their music faltered; but some began to attune their music to his rather than to the thought which they had at first. Then the discord of Melkor spread ever wider, and the melodies which had been heard before foundered in a sea of turbulent sound. But Iluvatar sat and hearkened until it seemed that about his throne there was a raging storm, as of dark waters that made war one upon another in an endless wrath that would not be assuaged.

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posted October 05, 2004 06:43 PM         

Hmm, favourite passage is shortly after the one you quote on Melkor:

"Then Ilúvatar spoke, and he said: 'Mighty are the Ainur, and
mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the
Ainur, that I am Ilúvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will
show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor,
shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost
source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that
attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of
things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.'"

Which links favourably, in my mind, with the highest understanding of "good" and "evil".

Anyway, perhaps you will find the audio lecture to be found here of some interest too:
J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: Gnosis for our day (75 minutes, requires Realplayer) http://gnosis.org/981002.ram

posted May 10, 2006 04:02 PM         

You know, Paras, I had the same thoughts about Tolkien's elves and all - it's interesting; I read a biography of him a while back in which the author said that Tolkien was very interested in the whole idea of immortality, and that's why it's a theme in so many of his stories.