posted September 13, 2004 11:35 AM         

I agree with much of what you say Petron, but I do not believe that Satan and Lucifer are one and the same. I also think you've touched on something much deeper when you talk of the morning star as Venus and also 11.11.

Don't stop guys. I love reading your posts.

posted September 13, 2004 07:02 PM         

in very ancient times, astronomers thought that there were 2 wandering stars of intense brightness, 1 they called the evening star as it was very bright in the evening, the other they called the morning star, or lightbringer, because it rose before the sun in the morning..

the passage i referred to was....

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

thus lucifer was a transliteration for the name of the morning star , which never rises far from the ground before fading in the day, and had lost its place as the morning star and the evening star now held only the name and attributes of Venus..... at the time of writing this was written against the king of babylon.

i believe there was a shake up in astrology about the time of the discovery which led to the term hermaphrodite...

so yes that IS what i am saying, that Lucifer and Satan are 2 completely different concepts, however, in its inviction against the old pagan "daemons" the church consistently lumped 2gether many pagan gods and mythological creatures

the name Lucifer is used in the The Malleus Maleficarum , and if you ask your average person raised christian, "what's satans name?" he will tell you...lucifer