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Author
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Topic: We have no karma?
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Aquarian Girl
Knowflake Posts: 591
From:
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted September 09, 2004 01:57 PM
 
quote:
We come to the physical realm because we choose to. We don't have to pay for anything we've done in the past. There is no karmic debt.
http://www.randomterrain.com/possibletruth/reason.html I came across this website quite by accident and wondered what the enlightened souls here at LindaLand thought of this concept. Personally, I can't get my head around it. Perhaps on some higher level it is true that we don't have to pay karma, our higher selves choose to (haha... I've tried to medititate on that several times in order to... ahem defer payment lol). Actually, according to my birthdate and my birth name, it seems that this incarnation is for me to clear my debts once and for all and thats ok with me *shrug*... Has anyone read the book "Conversations With God" by any chance? I guess the only reason I'm wondering what others think is because I share the beliefs the author of that pages has, with the exception of the "no karma" principle. Sure, life may be an illusion, life and karma may just be an illusory obstacle course for us to learn the teachings our souls require... Am I on the right track? I would love to hear your ideas. IP: Logged |
LibraSparkle
Moderator Posts: 5085
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted September 09, 2004 02:13 PM
No time right now to read the article. I bookmarked it and will get to it after I get home later this afternoon...I fully believe in Karma. I have seen it's evidence too often in my life to discredit it. Just wanted to add my   IP: Logged |
thirteen
Knowflake Posts: 413
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted September 09, 2004 02:25 PM
I beleive in Karma to but I also beleive that there are some karmic repayments we can stop midstream. Like for example, an illness. Sometimes they are karmic. I read it somewhere that you can choose to no longer repay that particular Karma thru having an illness. Now I can find some possibility in that. Perhaps you can pay your Karmic debt in another way other than the original illness you set up. I do not know how to accomplish this yet. I do intend to figure it out thought. I have a chronic condition that I think is Karmic. I want to find a way to change the payoff but I am not at the point yet where I can do it. Im still looking for answers but I definately beleive that the debt is going to have to be paid back.IP: Logged |
3 Is A Magic Number
Knowflake Posts: 53
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted September 09, 2004 03:53 PM
The best way of describing Karma is like you keep on spending money on your Karma credit card and ignoring all the bills that start to pile up so that in the end you owe more because you have not kept up with yuor repayment to the Bank Of Karma. I think you choose to pay your Karmic debt when you can afford to.IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 22251
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted September 09, 2004 05:48 PM
I don't think Karma is impersonal, automatic, or mechanistic. IMHO, Karma is a choice between two or more Souls for the purpose of growth and experience. On a higher level, we choose everything. We can choose not to volunteer, but we rarely would refrain from those Karmic "debts." The real wild card is that box of Free-will Tinker Toys. The "Us" that resides here in Earth School can decide to throw a monkey wrench in everything and mess our Lessons up (and often does), but sometimes the opposite will occur; we will Love, unconditionally forgive, and have Faith--the combination of which erases Karmic cycles (of learning) all the way to the very beginning of the first experiential "infraction" between the two (or more) Souls. In other words, through our thoughts and actions we can make things much worse, or we can shorten the learning curve to almost nothing. We have the greatest of all gifts--that of Free-will. Ultimately, we choose every experience, either consciously or unconsciously, so Karma as we have come to know it truly cannot exist. We can always choose to opt out--but we seldom do. Otherwise, our Soul would miss out on a lot of valuable experience. So, is Karma real? Yes. And no. Only because we wish it so.  ------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |
26taurus
Moderator Posts: 8726
From: the stars
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted September 09, 2004 05:53 PM
Very well put Randall. I believe the same.  IP: Logged |
ZolaKaya
Knowflake Posts: 8
From: Here
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted September 09, 2004 05:55 PM
There is only one debt we owe: To ourselves and the universe - This is to achieve Enlightenment.We are commissioned to to grow to become what we ultimately are. The experience of karma is to help us learn how to balance all things. To learn to encapsulate the whole of our experience into one cohesive understanding. To ultimately learn how to align our will with that of the creators. Zola IP: Logged |
Aquarian Girl
Knowflake Posts: 591
From:
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted September 10, 2004 01:27 AM
That makes a lot of sense Randall. Thanks for that.  IP: Logged |
LibraSparkle
Moderator Posts: 5085
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted September 10, 2004 01:35 AM
Nicely put, Randall  IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 943
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted September 10, 2004 03:13 AM
Thanks for this thread! My view on Karma has altered substantalliy in the last fortnight. That was the duration I had for reading "Conversations With God". I think this book has been mentioned in many threads recently. Some sort of cycle?Anyhow, I've come the real-isation that karma is like Randall said, but I want to say it in my own words OK, so as a soul, you're out their thinking of all the possible things you could experience. You think "I really wonder what being a thief is like". So you incatnate into a "thief". That life you rob everything and get away with it. Afterwards you're soul might think "OK, that was fun, but now I wonder what it's be like to be a thief and get caught. So you incarnate again and get busted and learn what prison's like. After that life you might think "now I wonder what catching theifs is like" so you come back as a cop. Whether you believe that Karma is a "Law" as I always used to believe, or truly choice I'm still questioning. Like, If you robbed someone, then thought aftwards "I wonder what it's like to be robbed, then you will experience this - probably by the person you robbed. Now this is where Karma gets tricky, and the scope of "God's work" goes off. Just think of EVERY single person you meet and the interactions you have. Not to mention the groups of people and different combinations of numbers in the groups etc. I'm still wondering about the law thing though - is this the function of tying everything together, or does God orchestrate everything like a symphony. Indeed, has God set things in motion from its inception, or does he tinker occasionally, or continuously? I think debt is maybe a negative word that we associate with Karma due to our inner negativity. We probably should consider these as blessings, as has been mentioned in the book and by several masters I've read about. I love you,
Dean. IP: Logged |
thirteen
Knowflake Posts: 413
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted September 10, 2004 10:37 AM
Can't help it, i still think karma is law. In other words if you choose to play in the sandbox called life then you have to balance your acts, maybe how you balance is chosen by you and your debtees.Hence "free will".
P.S. through a letter of apology, forgivness and through taking full responsibility for my supposed bad behavior in another time, I have been able to balance out some real bad karma between my mother and myself. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Knowflake Posts: 5720
From: Big Dipper
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted September 10, 2004 08:09 PM
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000868.html  ------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
LibraSparkle
Moderator Posts: 5085
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted September 12, 2004 01:51 AM
I've gotta get that book. I keep hearing such great things about it.IP: Logged |
purplezen
Knowflake Posts: 888
From: outer space
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted September 12, 2004 06:57 PM
I think many people are very quick to externalize their misfortune (displace personal responsiblility) by blaming it on karma. But I think this isn't exactly healthy because it makes people the victims, at the mercy of karma or whatever you want to call it. just my opinion.IP: Logged |
Suzume
Knowflake Posts: 199
From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted September 12, 2004 11:44 PM
Ok, this is just me, but this is what I believe.Humans have a need to justify everything. Bad things happen. Good things happen. It's our perception that changes it. Depending on our beliefs and our point of view it could be interpretted as Karma, or many other things. It's the human why of justifying why something has happened. Now everyone is intitled to thier own opinion, and I'm not knocking anyone elses, but I truely believe that if you believe in something enough, it's going to happen. You do something wrong and believe in karma, it will probably come back to bite you on the butt. Where-as if you do something good and no you definetly deserve good karma back good things happen. thats what i believe NE way IP: Logged |
trillian
Moderator Posts: 3555
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted September 13, 2004 11:12 AM
quote:
but I truely believe that if you believe in something enough, it's going to happen.
I truly believe I wanna have pretty blue skin, be blissfully married to Bono, and be worth about a billion dollars.  Just making a point with humor.
IP: Logged |
Gia
Knowflake Posts: 1154
From: California
Registered: May 2004
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posted September 13, 2004 11:53 AM
What an interesting thread.I agree with Randall. I do blieve that Karma is a trajectory which is enforced by our own gravity. I think it's our own ideas, thought, actions and deeds that travel around a circular field to find us. We can control it before it controls us. We can erase karma through unselfish acts of kindness. We can also take on another persons karma often without any conscious knowing that we've done just that. I have seen healers cure by this method and end up in trouble themselves. Gia IP: Logged |
thirteen
Knowflake Posts: 413
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted September 13, 2004 01:46 PM
To identify something as "KARMA" does not displace personal responsibility. I don't see the connection there!IP: Logged |
Suzume
Knowflake Posts: 199
From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted September 14, 2004 05:43 AM
You have totally missed my point."I believe i wanna have blue skin..." Thats believing you want to, so there for you will want to. If you totally believed you HAD blue skin then it might change. Do not foget some things hold us back from it actually being true.. Doubt, the fact it has never happened before ever. The fact you have always had a certain colour skin, the fact it is most unlikley to happen. These are all thoughts enlisted from the media. Ideas that have been pushed into our brains for whatever reason. Just because no one has traveled there before doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Do we really need a logical reason for something to happen? I think alot of things happen for unlogical reasons. Understand my point yet?  IP: Logged |
thirteen
Knowflake Posts: 413
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted September 14, 2004 08:33 AM
My comment was in response to purplezen. It didn't sit right with me because I feel that the more I know and understand Karma the more personal responsibility i feel. That post is implying that to acknowlege and label something as Karma is the same as not taking any personal responsibility. I don't see how that is so unless there is more to the story here. I am wondering what it is.IP: Logged |
trillian
Moderator Posts: 3555
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted September 14, 2004 10:50 AM
Oh, I didn't miss your point at all.I am quite comfortable with the way I think. I am not a victim of media manipulation, nor do I think most people are. We accept and reject on a constant basis what we choose to believe or disbelieve. Literally, you said that if you believe something will happen, if you believe it enough, it will. I have never found proof to substantiate such a claim...and don't even get me started on the sub- or unconscious. I think Randall's definitions for Karma resonate quite well, though. No logic needed.  IP: Logged |
Philbird
Moderator Posts: 2976
From: Here, there and everywhere.
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted September 14, 2004 01:40 PM
Ahhhh, The Bank of Karmic Debt... I love that analogy!!!
I believe I'm on the board of directors, I've made so many depisits!!!
Now they just open the vault whenever they see me coming!
Edited for stupidity!IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 943
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted September 14, 2004 07:19 PM
Suzume, are there two meanings here: quote:
You do something wrong and believe in karma, it will probably come back to bite you on the butt. Where-as if you do something good and no you definetly deserve good karma back good things happen.
Like, what of the other scenario that if you were clinically insane and did something bad but knew it was good and therefore you deserve good Karma, then do you get it? (Hitler comes to mind here) What if you do something wrong and don't believe in Karma, are you saying there are no further consequences? Philbird, what?  I knew someone who loved wars but I just never understand why. Maybe it's the power people love, it can't be the mutilation, death, and a lifetime of nigthmares... Dean. IP: Logged |
Philbird
Moderator Posts: 2976
From: Here, there and everywhere.
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted September 14, 2004 08:31 PM
Perhaps I used the wrong word Sesame.
Apologies all around for the coldness of my post.
MaryIP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 943
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted September 14, 2004 09:53 PM
That's AOK. I didn't mean to imply anything back, I just didn't understand. In many ways we are the reflection of the world, and it of us, so anything's OK really...Dean. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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