Author
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Topic: How do you define Intelligence?
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sesame Moderator Posts: 580 From: Brisbane, QLD, Oz Registered: Nov 2003
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posted December 01, 2004 12:55 AM
And does it really matter? This is something I think about a lot. How do you state if you are intelligent or not? It really is a pointless question, but why are we so concerned with it? Is it because of an innate sense of failure that we need to know whether we'll succeed, or is it because we need to stroke our own egos? If you talk fast, or think things through faster than others, is this really any better, because in the end, it might not be as thorough... I mean, is spirituality more important than intelligence? For me, I always thought I was intelligent, but I always tried to kill my brain cells - as I said "I might be intelligent, but Im' not smart". There is a very distinct difference - intelligent is seeing possiblities (as an example) while smartness is about the choice you make in regards to possibilities. But this is why I thought spirituality is better than both - because regardless of the choices, you will always be protected by the Knowlegde that God loves you and all will be well. Even if you're a genius, if you believe intirely in science, then where will you be in relation to God? I mean, the final answer to everything will always be out of grasp, but the spiritual scientist will be more interested in seeing where things go for now, and not necessarily where they end up, and hence will always be productive. Does this make any sense? What do you think? Dean. IP: Logged |
LibraSparkle Moderator Posts: 4151 From: Vancouver USA Registered: May 2004
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posted December 01, 2004 03:52 AM
Ohh.. there are so many kinds of intelligence. Emotional intelligence, book smarts, artsy-fartsy, musical genius, wordsmiths, mathematics, science, astrology... I could go on and on. We are all brilliantly intelligent in our own special ways Yes, I believe spirituality is more important than intelligence. If the Mind/Body/Spirit connection is broken, you will not be learning what it is that you are here to learn... hence inhibiting your own intelligence. IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 2726 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted December 01, 2004 09:56 AM
Intelligence is like irony: I know it when I see it. Like Forest said: Stupid Is as Stupid Does. IP: Logged |
mnovak Knowflake Posts: 9 From: Toronto, ON, CANADA Registered: Nov 2004
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posted December 01, 2004 10:41 AM
One of the definitions in the dictionary states:"The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge, especially toward a purposeful goal." To me this statement can work for dogs, computers, roaches.... (of course computers can't apply knowledge until we tell them to) To me I think intelligence is just another way we as humans define ourselves. Inelligence has no meaning unless you ask someone if this person is smart, so it all boils down to what "you" think is intelligent. There is no universal standard. As everyone has different views on intelligence I don't beleive that there is a true set-in-stone way to define it. For example to me a bird could be more intelligent then a human but it depends on the questions you ask. Measuring intelligence based on synapsis in the brain or an IQ test, I see those as being flawed. The knowledge we know itself already exists and has always existed, everything that is possible, is already out there somewhere in this universe for us to discover. We don't create things like e=mc2 we simply find them. I guess I'd have to say the more you "know" the smarter you are. But your just a library, it does not mean the choices you make with that information are the "smartest" ones. IP: Logged |
thirteen Knowflake Posts: 153 From: Rochester Hills, MI USA Registered: May 2004
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posted December 01, 2004 11:02 AM
There is a person I work with who describes others as being "very smart". Its a generalization but i think the message is that this person will be successful. I work with many highly degreed people and quite honestly their intelligence doesn't really run a business. Many are primadonna's who lack self discipline and are caught up in their titles and their perceptions of power. I like what Dean said..... being able to make good decisions that lead one to personal peace and happiness seem like the best kind of intelligence. IP: Logged |
pixelpixie Moderator Posts: 5424 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2003
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posted December 01, 2004 11:04 AM
synchronicity abounds, as usual. My friend and I were talking yesterday. he will start on a topic and rather than settling on a point, using the perfect word that will get you from 0 to 1, he will use the biggest words ( some inappropriate in context) with as many prefixes and suffixes as is humanly possible ( again, not grammatically possible) in one sentance. He thinks it makes him sound 'intelligent'. I think it makes him sound pompous and unnecessary. Perception.... Talking around something, instead of about something.He said also... he knows a man who has a 'masters of education'. He wondered how one coud possibly, when thoroughly spiralled, acquire that title.. other than man made qualifications. After all the discoveries being continually made, how does one 'master' education? Boggles, it does. That being said, I like flowery unnecessary words. But it takes a while to execute, and I have better things to do than to hear him stumble for the perfect (NOT!) words. I know I am smart. I don't need no ed-ju-ma-ka-shun to tell me. heehee.... No, I know I am smart, because I can learn. Even change my opinions. But who really cares. I can't quote crap at the top of my head, but I understand it inside. That's what matters. OH.. and I can read, watch tv, brush my kids hair and cry and chew gum, and time a kettle while planning the day, all at the same time. purdy dern cool, huh? IP: Logged |
26taurus Moderator Posts: 3761 From: the stars Registered: Jun 2004
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posted December 01, 2004 10:46 PM
LibraSparkle said: quote: Ohh.. there are so many kinds of intelligence. Emotional intelligence, book smarts, artsy-fartsy, musical genius, wordsmiths, mathematics, science, astrology... I could go on and on. We are all brilliantly intelligent in our own special ways. Yes, I believe spirituality is more important than intelligence. If the Mind/Body/Spirit connection is broken, you will not be learning what it is that you are here to learn... hence inhibiting your own intelligence.
I couldnt agree more or have said it better myself.
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Philbird Knowflake Posts: 1511 From: Douglas, AZ. USA Registered: Jun 2004
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posted December 02, 2004 10:39 AM
One of my down falls is, I can't seem to find eloquent words to describe intuition. I wish people could just feel what I mean!IP: Logged |
pixelpixie Moderator Posts: 5424 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2003
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posted December 02, 2004 11:14 AM
Yep.IP: Logged |
iAmThat Knowflake Posts: 477 From: Edison, NJ, USA Registered: Sep 2004
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posted December 02, 2004 12:42 PM
Hmm...What I am thinking is that there is only one Universal law in the created and uncreated world. If we stick to the world created, then intelligence is our ability to decipher each of the rules (and the lack there of) and become like Neo of the movie Matrix. So when one says one is intelligent, its like rating oneself on a scale 1-12 (12 being the Neo) I am thinking if Body is really required to be considered intelligent?(pondering over LS commentS). I believe currently really not. Body or matter world is of low vibration. The world of light is very high vibration.
To be continued...
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TINK Knowflake Posts: 1168 From: New England Registered: Mar 2003
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posted December 02, 2004 01:53 PM
1) The ability to accurately assess a situation2) the ability to solve a problem 3) (and possibly the most important) wit* * not to be confused with sarcasm These traits come in just as handy on the spiritual path as they do on any other. Maybe even more handy.
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26taurus Moderator Posts: 3761 From: the stars Registered: Jun 2004
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posted December 02, 2004 05:22 PM
Wit and humor about life are very important and show intelligence. I dont believe that all sarcasm is bad, or has to be offensive. I'm actually quite fond of people that can be sarcastic and dry. But there will always be hypersensitive people who cant take it. Humor is in the ear of the beholder. But I'm not one to get offended easily and can see humor in just about everything. Sarcasm usually has a whole lot of truth behind it and some people cant handle the truth. But then, I find people like Howard Stern hilarious, alot of people find him offensive and think he's the devil. LOL. To each their own. I guess when you can truly laugh at yourself, the whole world and everyone in it becomes a big joke. I will admit though, that since it's very hard for me to get offended by others, I may step over the line and offend more sensitive people when I thought I was being just funny. The truth hurts, but it can be really frickin' funny. IP: Logged |
TINK Knowflake Posts: 1168 From: New England Registered: Mar 2003
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posted December 02, 2004 09:53 PM
Personally, I enjoy sarcasm. But I don't think it requires much intelligence. Wit has a certain subtlety and refinement that sarcasm lacks. Samuel Butler - wit. Rosanne Barr - sarcasam.IP: Logged |
NeoKitty Knowflake Posts: 128 From: Heaven Registered: Dec 2004
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posted December 13, 2004 09:58 PM
Just thoughts:Here's what OSHO says about intelligence: What is true intelligence and how does it manifest? Osho: There is a lot of difference between intellect and intelligence. Intellect is logical; intelligence is paradoxical. Intellect is analytical; intelligence is synthetical. Intellect divides, cuts into pieces to understand a thing. Science is based on intellect, dissection, division, analysis. Intelligence joins things together, makes a whole out of parts -- because this is one of the greatest understandings: that the part exists through the whole, not vice versa. And the whole is not just the sum of the parts, it is more than the sum. For example, you can have a rose flower, and you can go to a scientist, to a logician. You can ask him, "I want to understand this rose flower"; what will he do? He will dissect it, he will separate all the elements that are making it a flower. When you go next you will find the flower gone. Instead of the flower there will be a few labelled bottles. The elements have been separated, but one thing is certain -- there will not be any bottle on which will be the label "beauty." Beauty is not matter and beauty does not belong to parts. Once you dissect a flower, once the wholeness of the flower is gone, beauty is also gone. Beauty belongs to the whole, it is the grace that comes to the whole. It is more than the sum. Then only parts are there. You can dissect a man; the moment you dissect, life disappears. Then you know only a dead body, a corpse. You can find out how much aluminium is there and how much iron and how much water; you can find the whole mechanism the lungs, the kidneys, everything -- but one thing is not there: life. One thing is not there that was the most valuable. One thing is not there that we wanted to understand really, and everything else is there. Now even scientists are becoming alert that when you take blood out of a man's bloodstream and you examine it, it is no longer the same blood. Inside the bloodstream of the man it was alive, throbbing with life. Now it is just a corpse. It cannot be the same because the gestalt has changed. You can take the color of the rose flower from it, but is it the same color? It looks the same but it cannot be the same. Where is that fragility? Where is that aliveness, that throb of life? When it was in the rose flower it was in a totally different arrangement and life was present. It was full of presence; God was there beating in its heart. Taken out, the part is there but you cannot say the part is the same. It cannot be because the part exists in the whole. Intellect dissects, analyzes. It is the instrument of science. Intelligence is the instrument of religion; it joins together. Hence, the greatest science of spirituality we have called Yoga. Yoga means the methodology to join. Yoga means to put things together. God is the greatest totality, all things together. God is not a person, God is a presence, the presence when the total is functioning in a great harmony -- the trees and the birds and the earth and the stars and the moon and the sun and the rivers and the ocean -- all together. That togetherness is God. If you dissect, you will never find God. Dissect a man; you cannot find the presence that was making him alive. Dissect the world; you cannot find the presence that is God. Intelligence is the method to join things together. An intelligent person is very synthetical. He always looks for a higher whole, because the meaning is always in the higher whole. He always looks for something higher in which the lower is dissolved and functions as a part, functions as a note in the harmony of the whole, gives its own contribution to the orchestra of the whole but is not separate from it. Intelligence moves upwards, intellect moves downwards. Intellect goes to the cause. Please follow it; the point is delicate. Intellect goes to the cause; intelligence goes to the goal. Intelligence moves into the future, intellect moves in the past. Intellect reduces everything to the lowest denominator. If you ask what love is, intellect will say it is nothing but -- the lowest denominator. If you ask what prayer is, the intellect will say it is nothing but repressed sex. Ask intelligence what sex is, and intelligence will say it is nothing but the seed of prayer. It is the potential love. Intellect reduces to the lowest; it reduces everything to the lowest. Ask intellect what a lotus is, and it will say it is nothing, just an illusion; the reality is the mud -- because the lotus comes out of the mud and again falls back into the mud. The mud is the real, the lotus is just an illusion. Mud remains, the lotus comes and goes. Ask intelligence what mud is, and intelligence will say, "It is the potentiality of being a lotus." Then mud disappears and millions of lotuses flower. Intelligence goes to the higher and higher and the higher, and the whole effort is to reach to the ultimate, to the pinnacle of existence. Because things can be explained only through the higher, not through the lower. You don't explain through the lower, you explain away. And when the lower becomes too important, all beauty is lost, all truth, all good. Everything that has any significance is lost. Then you start crying, "Where is meaning in life?" In the West, science destroyed every value and reduced everything to matter. Now everybody is worried about what is the meaning of life, because meaning exists in the higher whole. See, you are alone; you feel, "What is the meaning of life?" Then you fall in love with a woman; a certain meaning arises. Now two have become one -- a little higher. A single man is a little. Lower than a couple. A couple is a little higher. Two things have joined together. Two opposite forces have mingled, the feminine and the male energies. Now it is more of a circle. That's why in India we have the concept of ardhanarishwar. Shiva is painted as half woman and half man. The concept of ardhanarishwar says that man is half, and woman is half. When a man and woman meet in deep love, a higher reality arises: certainly greater, more complex, because two energies are meeting. Then a child is born; now there is a family -- more meaning. Now the father feels a meaning in his life: the child has to be brought up. He loves the child, he works hard, but work is now no longer work. He is working for his child, for his beloved, for his home. He works, but the hardness of the work has disappeared. He is not dragging it. Tired of the whole day, he comes home dancing. Seeing the smile on his child's face, he is tremendously happy. A family is a higher unit than the couple, and so on and so forth. And God is nothing but the communion of all, the greatest family of all. That's why I go on calling these orange people my family. I would like you to disappear in the whole. I would like you to be so absorbed in the whole that you remain individual, but you become part of a greater unity, bigger than you. Meaning arises immediately whenever you become part of a greater unity. When a poet writes a poem, meaning arises -- because the poet is not alone; he has created something. When a dancer dances, meaning arises. When a mother gives birth to a child, meaning arises. Left alone, cut from everything else, isolated like an island, you are meaningless. Joined together you are meaningful. The bigger the whole, the bigger is the meaning. That's why I say God is the biggest conceivable whole, and without God you cannot attain to the highest meaning. God is not a person; God is not sitting somewhere. Those ideas are just stupid. God is the total presence of existence, the being, the very ground of being. God exists wherever there is union; wherever there is Yoga, God comes into existence. You are walking alone; God is fast asleep. Then suddenly you see somebody and you smile; God is awakened, the other has come in. Your smile is not isolated, it is a bridge. You have thrown a bridge towards the other. The other has also smiled, there has been a response. Between you both arises that space I call God -- a little throb. When you come to the tree and you sit by the side of the tree, completely oblivious to the existence of the tree, God is fast asleep. Then suddenly you look at the tree, and an upsurge of feeling for the tree and God has arisen. Wherever there is love, God is; wherever there is response, God is. God is the space; it exists wherever union exists. That's why I say love is the purest possibility of God, because it is the subtlest union of energies. Hence the insistence of the Bauls that love is God. Forget God, love will do. But never forget love, because God alone won't do. Intelligence is discrimination, understanding. Truth is the key word, sat. The man who moves through intelligence moves towards sat, truth. Higher than intelligence is the sixth type of religion. I call it the religion of meditation. Meditation is awareness, spontaneity, what the Bauls call sahaja manush, the spontaneous man. Freedom -- it is non-traditional, it is radical, revolutionary, individual. The key word is chit, consciousness. Intelligence is still the highest form of intellect, intelligence is the purest form of intellect. The ladder is the same. Intellect is going downwards on the same ladder, intelligence is going upwards, but the ladder is the same. In meditation the ladder is thrown. Now, no more movement on the same ladder, neither upwards nor downwards. Now, no more movement, but a state of no-movement inside, a drowning into oneself, a sinking in. Osho, The Beloved, Volume 2, Chapter 5 IP: Logged |
26taurus Moderator Posts: 3761 From: the stars Registered: Jun 2004
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posted December 13, 2004 10:08 PM
Love it! Thank you for posting that neo. All so very true.IP: Logged |
NeoKitty Knowflake Posts: 128 From: Heaven Registered: Dec 2004
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posted December 13, 2004 10:14 PM
Thought OSHO deserves a say, BTW, thanks 26T for introducing me to him. IP: Logged |
26taurus Moderator Posts: 3761 From: the stars Registered: Jun 2004
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posted December 13, 2004 10:27 PM
No problem. I'm glad you seem to like him as much as I do. I've been known to kind of annoy people here I think, because I like him so much, and have often quoted him. LOL! I dont want to force his teachings on anyone, I just think they are probably the most wise words I've ever read, and like to share things I find helpful to me, with others. I'm so glad he resonates with you as well. IP: Logged |
NeoKitty Knowflake Posts: 128 From: Heaven Registered: Dec 2004
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posted December 14, 2004 12:47 AM
Absolutely! If something is wise and profound I like to let it float around, for those who resonate toward it. They can take it or leave it, of course, ya don't ram it down peoples throats. OSHO is so so wise, I put him right up there with Linda! Methinks, we think alike 26 IP: Logged |
enlik Knowflake Posts: 37 From: Registered: Oct 2004
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posted December 14, 2004 06:12 AM
Absolutely beautifull words!! Love it! Thanks for making my day "sunny"...IP: Logged |
enlik Knowflake Posts: 37 From: Registered: Oct 2004
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posted December 14, 2004 07:15 AM
Absolutely beautifull words!! Love it! Thanks for making my day "sunny"...IP: Logged |
Saffron Knowflake Posts: 152 From: Registered: Sep 2004
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posted December 14, 2004 09:44 AM
Dean ~you stated it perfectly: quote: intelligent is seeing possiblities (as an example) while smartness is about the choice you make in regards to possibilities. But this is why I thought spirituality is better than both - because regardless of the choices, you will always be protected by the Knowlegde that God loves you and all will be well.
you expressed my thoughts on this matter so succinctly! i've been pondering this for a while....thanks for sharing your spiritual quotient here.
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marcia Knowflake Posts: 250 From: NYC Registered: Oct 2004
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posted December 14, 2004 11:09 AM
I know it's ignorant, but I always defined intelligence according to how proper one's English is. Also for some reason I associate accents with idiocy which is really terrible of me IP: Logged |
Saffron Knowflake Posts: 152 From: Registered: Sep 2004
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posted December 14, 2004 12:17 PM
interesting too that you mention 'genius'.the ancient meaning of genius was a man's spirit, or guardian spirit... thus, romans worshipped the 'genius of the emperor'...not deifying the man, but his spirit. and thus, when we call someone genius, or respect the 'genius' of an idea, we really are referring to the guiding 'spirit'. our spirituality is indeed our highest guide. IP: Logged |
miss_apples Knowflake Posts: 284 From: white bear lake, MN, USA Registered: Oct 2004
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posted December 14, 2004 12:53 PM
I have always believed there are different types of intellegence. As for me, Im not very book smart. I dont have a very big vocabulary compared to most people I see on here, and because of that I have a hard time explaining myself. However I am intellegent in different types of ways, so that makes up for it IP: Logged |
Sheaa Olein Moderator Posts: 1553 From: Over here! (UK) Registered: Jul 2004
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posted December 14, 2004 01:01 PM
I believe, intelligence is how we choose to use the knowledge we aquire from all our life experiences.It's how we reason, evaluate, understand and react to situations, in thought and action. Our summary of events that we process through the filter of our lives and people we contact. Intelligence matters because it is the foundations of our decisions. We make decisions by thinking through what would be best at the time - conscious or subconsciously decided on the intelligence of our thoughts or actions. For me, intelligence doesn't only derive from books and learning; but from an inner sense of wisdom which we all possess, aswell. It's a combination of all our senses and all the information we could possibly have to hand, in which we process our intelligence. We summarise this all this information in seconds. If you think about it, we're all very intelligent beings ------------------ ~*~ Listen to you heart ~*~ IP: Logged | |