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Author Topic:   How small is small? How big is big?
NeoKitty
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Posts: 131
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 12, 2004 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
How small is small? How big is big?

Obiviously, those questions have been asked by many through-out time, and the way I thought about answering that question was pretending I had a grain of sand, and I were to cut it in half. Then cut it in half again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and so, you get the idea!

How many times can I continue to cut this particle in half until it's non-existent? After my mind imploded for a moment, and I was able to refresh it, I came with an answer that it could possibly be infinte.
Hows that!? Is there a point something could get so small that it cannot exist? I don't think so, in my opinion, using my limited intellect, it cannot not just vanish.

And of course, the same goes with how big is big?
I Imagine myself in the unkown scale of it all, that we can be the size of what we imagine to be the size of something so tiny like a nuclea, what if we were zillions time smaller than that? When how can we know?

And another thing that puzzles me is the Universe. When I was young I used to image the galaxy being surround by a wall, and I was sure it had an end. Until someone said to me, ok so there is an end to the universe, with some kind of wall, but whats behind that wall?

Lets all have a think about this- not too hard though, don't get a brain cramp, it's very easy to do!!
What ya'll think about these funny little life's mysteries?


------------------
*Formally known as NeoStar
========================

O space and time! now I see it is true, what I guess'd at,
What I guess'd when I loaf'd on the grass,
What I guess'd while I lay alone in my bed,
And again as I walk'd the beach under the paling stars of the morning.*

* From Song Of Myself by Walt Whitman

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Petron
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Posts: 257
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Registered: Mar 2004

posted December 12, 2004 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petron     Edit/Delete Message

check out some of the links on this site .....
http://www.vendian.org/envelope/dir0/scales.html


and of course fractals are on topic
http://www.jracademy.com/~jtucek/math/fractals.html
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/fractals.htm
http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/noel/noel.html
http://www.fractalus.com/

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NeoKitty
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Posts: 131
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 12, 2004 10:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for the linkages petron

ooh, I disklike numbers, it's all labels, it's a mathematician thing, so they can partly work it all out. It's all goboldygook to me.

My brain works aesthetically, and I'm pretty much in wonderment and awe at the moment.

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NeoKitty
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Posts: 131
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 13, 2004 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
Sesame,

Have you pondered this?
Have you heard of the String theory, which relates to Einsteins theory of relativity?

The small, & big stuff relates to that because EVERYTHING is relative. And I find the string theory is a bit complex for me to just explain. But it explains the fabric of our Universe. So I copied a basic explanation here:

Think of a guitar string that has been tuned by stretching the string under tension across the guitar. Depending on how the string is plucked and how much tension is in the string, different musical notes will be created by the string. These musical notes could be said to be excitation modes of that guitar string under tension.
In a similar manner, in string theory, the elementary particles we observe in particle accelerators could be thought of as the "musical notes" or excitation modes of elementary strings.
In string theory, as in guitar playing, the string must be stretched under tension in order to become excited. However, the strings in string theory are floating in spacetime, they aren't tied down to a guitar. Nonetheless, they have tension. The string tension in string theory is denoted by the quantity 1/(2 p a'), where a' is pronounced "alpha prime"and is equal to the square of the string length scale.
If string theory is to be a theory of quantum gravity, then the average size of a string should be somewhere near the length scale of quantum gravity, called the Planck length, which is about 10-33 centimeters, or about a millionth of a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a centimeter. Unfortunately, this means that strings are way too small to see by current or expected particle physics technology (or financing!!) and so string theorists must devise more clever methods to test the theory than just looking for little strings in particle experiments.
String theories are classified according to whether or not the strings are required to be closed loops, and whether or not the particle spectrum includes fermions. In order to include fermions in string theory, there must be a special kind of symmetry called supersymmetry, which means for every boson (particle that transmits a force) there is a corresponding fermion (particle that makes up matter). So supersymmetry relates the particles that transmit forces to the particles that make up matter.
Supersymmetric partners to to currently known particles have not been observed in particle experiments, but theorists believe this is because supersymmetric particles are too massive to be detected at current accelerators. Particle accelerators could be on the verge of finding evidence for high energy supersymmetry in the next decade. Evidence for supersymmetry at high energy would be compelling evidence that string theory was a good mathematical model for Nature at the smallest distance scales.

---From http://superstringtheory.com


------------------
*Formally known as NeoStar
========================

O space and time! now I see it is true, what I guess'd at,
What I guess'd when I loaf'd on the grass,
What I guess'd while I lay alone in my bed,
And again as I walk'd the beach under the paling stars of the morning.*

* From Song Of Myself by Walt Whitman

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26taurus
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Posts: 3764
From: the stars
Registered: Jun 2004

posted December 13, 2004 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
Great thoughts neo. I've often pondered similar ones. I remember being fascinated with this show on NOVA I watched once all about physics and string theory. I think it's availiable on DVD. And I know it's in book form, I'll have to look up the name of it, right now it's not coming to me. It was really interesting. I'll have to look into getting it. I'd like to see it again. Right now I'm tired and cant really talk string theory, but really fascinating stuff.

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NeoKitty
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Posts: 131
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 13, 2004 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, I warned you, don't hurt your brain!

I reckon if you could hear the universe in its symphony it would be so beautiful, so unimaginable, you would explode into millions of little hearts...

okaaay, I think I need a rest now

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26taurus
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posted December 13, 2004 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
HA HA!! I you! And I do believe you are correct. The syphony of the Universe..........

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NeoKitty
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From: Heaven
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posted December 14, 2004 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
26 T

And...What are your thoughts Dean?

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26taurus
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posted December 14, 2004 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
Here's what I was talking about neo. If you can somehow see this program, it is well worth it. It's a few hours long though if I remember correctly. And yes, it IS in book form.

It's called The Elegant Universe.
"11 Dimensions, Parellel Universes and a world made out of strings. It's not science fiction, it's string theory."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

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Petron
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posted December 15, 2004 09:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petron     Edit/Delete Message
the thing about fractals is that as you zoom in or out the pattern of the whole is repeated on a macro\microcosmic level

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NeoKitty
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Posts: 131
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 15, 2004 10:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
Can you post that link? I don't think those pics are showing up..

thanks

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NeoKitty
Knowflake

Posts: 131
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 16, 2004 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
bump* i'd love to see those pics!

------------------
*Formally known as NeoStar
========================
"Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter."

Long Chen Pa

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sesame
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Posts: 580
From: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 17, 2004 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for remembering me NeoStar. Have you read this?
http://www.megspace.com/science/porsche911/qed/spectrum.html

It's just something I wrote a few years ago about the infinite spectrum. I might add more later but I really need to sleep.

I'm sorry I haven't been around much later, but quite frankly, I thought LindaLand fell off the face of Earth. I just couldn't reach it, and then tonight I realise nothing's happened. Where was I?

Or should I say, where am I?


Dean.

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Petron
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posted December 17, 2004 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petron     Edit/Delete Message
i can see the pictures i posted....

some of the best are in the galleries at this link...
http://www.fractalus.com/

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26taurus
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posted December 17, 2004 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
Petron,

All we can see are black boxes that say: "permission denied -www.fractalus.com/theft/-" FYI

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Petron
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posted December 17, 2004 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petron     Edit/Delete Message
thanx 26t , i suppose i had a cookie or something that allowed me to see them

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sesame
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From: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
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posted December 17, 2004 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
The interesting thing I've found about fractals, is that you always seem to see sea horses. Of all things! These creatures are just too weird, and yet they exist, and fractals seem to bring out their beauty.

I did a search on fractal seahorse in google and received 4,170, which isn't that many, but there are some cool links.

This page talks about how seahorses are formed (fractally):
http://members.rogers.com/derbyshire2/manguide.html

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

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NeoKitty
Knowflake

Posts: 131
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 17, 2004 09:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
Ooh, sea horses, really?

How funny, on my expect a miracle card you get when you order purple plates, my sister gave me a mini purple sea horse sticker, and i stuck it on my card, it looks so cute.
Thought that was funny, in my little world, anywho...

Thanks Dean!
And thanks for the link Petron.

------------------
"Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter."

Long Chen Pa

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