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Author Topic:   Unification
NeoKitty
Knowflake

Posts: 135
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 13, 2004 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
Is Unification possible?

Einstein believed it was possible to figure out one equation for the Whole universe

Does anyone believe anyone is capable of discovering unification?

Or is that the wrong kind of truth we are seeking, even if we did know the one and true equation of the Universe, how would that change humankind?

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*Formally known as NeoStar
========================

O space and time! now I see it is true, what I guess'd at,
What I guess'd when I loaf'd on the grass,
What I guess'd while I lay alone in my bed,
And again as I walk'd the beach under the paling stars of the morning.*

* From Song Of Myself by Walt Whitman

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Johnny
Knowflake

Posts: 196
From: Colorado, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted December 14, 2004 01:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message
How could that be possible, to reduce the universe down to one equation? It's beyond my capacity for understanding, that's for sure.

But if Einstein thought it was possible... who knows? He was a pretty bright guy.

I wonder what that equation would look like... Probably be kinda long...

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NeoKitty
Knowflake

Posts: 135
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 14, 2004 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
Indeed, Einstein thought so.

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Petron
Knowflake

Posts: 258
From:
Registered: Mar 2004

posted December 14, 2004 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Petron     Edit/Delete Message
hmmm i thought you didnt like math??

besides you dont need math to appreciate the beauty of fractals

unifying geometry and physics will require a theory of fractional geometric dimensions(string theory basically)

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26taurus
Moderator

Posts: 3783
From: the stars
Registered: Jun 2004

posted December 15, 2004 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
I believe so, neo.

Petron,

Have you seen this: The Elegant Universe
"11 Dimensions, Parellel Universes and a world made out of strings. It's not science fiction, it's string theory."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/ ...? If not, check it out.

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Johnny
Knowflake

Posts: 196
From: Colorado, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted December 15, 2004 01:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message
Oooh, cool link 26! Thanks!

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26taurus
Moderator

Posts: 3783
From: the stars
Registered: Jun 2004

posted December 15, 2004 01:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
No prob. You should really see it, I believe it's availiable on DVD - it's really fascinating. Or get the book.

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NeoKitty
Knowflake

Posts: 135
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 15, 2004 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
I do like math- what I meant petron at that time when you gave me those links, I was more in wonderment than wanting to do calculations!- Or even trying to understand them.

Mathematics to me, are just as beautiful as any flower, or sunrise.

Great link 26T,
I just know they're getting somewhere with the string theory

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NeoKitty
Knowflake

Posts: 135
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 15, 2004 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
The string theory in a nutshell:

quote:

According to string theory, absolutely everything in the universe—all of the particles that make up matter and forces—is comprised of tiny vibrating fundamental strings. Moreover, every one of these strings is identical. The only difference between one string and another, whether it's a heavy particle that is part of an atom or a massless particle that carries light, is its resonant pattern, or how it vibrates.

All objects, not just fundamental strings, have resonant patterns associated with them. Pluck the string of a violin and you hear mainly one tone. This is the string's fundamental resonant pattern, or frequency. And the instrument's resonance doesn't stop there. The body of the violin has resonant frequencies, which work to amplify the sound created by the vibrating string. There's resonance in objects that aren't musical, too. Your desk has resonant frequencies, and so does a flagpole, and so does the Earth.


-

Check out this for 'sense of scale' http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/scale.html

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sesame
Moderator

Posts: 580
From: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 17, 2004 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
e = mc^2

I wrote a fairly big post, but my PC crashed.

Oh well, if I have patience later

Dean.

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sesame
Moderator

Posts: 580
From: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 17, 2004 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
OK. I'll start again. What you are reffering to is the Grand Unified Field Theory - of GUFT for short. It's a theory that's meant to tie in the Weak and Strong Nuclear forces , Electromagnetism (two apparantly different forces that are actually one), and gravity. And yes, Einstein seemed to spend a great chunk of his remaining life searching for it. Then Quanum Mechanics came along which he didn't seem to like too much, and had arguments with Neil Bohr etc. Anyhow, it's been postulated that Super String theory is the holy grail. That, apparantly, it could take 4 years of mathematics 24/7 to figure out the maths, hence progress is a little slow. I think I read Hawking say this. Anyhow, so yes, they think they've found one. From there, confusion reigns. You have 11 dimensions rolled up inside the strings? I'm sure there's a lot of validity, but now I'll explain why I think e = mc^2 is really the true formula for everything.

Everything around us is made of Evergy yeah? Well, this energy, the energy that permeates all, has been termed the Higgs field, or ether in the old days (I think they're the same thing). Well, the Higgs field clumps together, and from the energy, matter is created (I think I'm oversimplifying the theory, but this is the idea). So this explains where matter comes from, and the formala above explains where matter can go if we're silly enough to split it.

Anyhow, so All is matter and energy, anything else? Well, there is antimatter and dark matter, and "pairs of matter" which anihilate themselves. Interestingly 6 comes up a lot.

There are six colours of quarks - up, down, top, bottom, strange, and charmed.
There are six types of matter - leptons, bosons, hadrons, mesons, partons, and gluons. I can't believe I remembered that. I'm not sure if partons and gluons are definitely particles, but they are used.
I'm sure there's another group of six that I can't remember. But the particles above determine the nature of the particle - bosons have three quarks (like the proton or nuetron), mesons have two, leptons are the smallest particles and consist of electrons, etc, etc.

Then there are four forces. It really should be one, but when you think about it, God is the only force - the thing pushing everything together/away - creating motion etc.

Anyhow, I'm getting sidetracked. I think the e = mc^s thing is just so powerful because it explains everything. This massive field containing matter. If there was one formula for everything, I'd say that one's it. Also, my last post (that was much more succinct) talked about the c squared part - the correalation between matter and energy. The speed of Light times itself. And what is light? Love? God? Why multiple it by itself? Well, remember how Linda thought God is Love, and his mate is Light? If Love = Light, and energy = matter, then God = matter, and Love = energy. As does his mate. They are all equal through this formula. I know what your thinking, the formula is about the speed, not the substance (if there is one) of light, but still, I think that's not all that important a point

Heaps of Love,
And Light,
Dean.

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NeoKitty
Knowflake

Posts: 135
From: Heaven
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 17, 2004 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoKitty     Edit/Delete Message
Thats awesome Dean, I'll read it soon.

I also read something of yours on your numerology site- it was like a little essay or something about life, and it was vey interesting, and I enjoyed it.

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"Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter."

Long Chen Pa

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steelrose
Knowflake

Posts: 34
From: Spain
Registered: Sep 2004

posted December 18, 2004 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
A year ago, I watched a documentary in the BBC about this book you are talking about (The Elegant Universe). Having a degree in Physics, it caught my eye... I got the book for my dad. Now I need to get time and read it...

I understood the String Theory was able to unify the Weak, Strong and Electromagnetic forces but Garvity was still an enigma... I believe there must be a way to put them all together... We must be looking at the problem from the wrong angle...

The documentary explained this new theory was looking at unification within "a sheet of paper" and maybe Gravity was escaping because was "sitting above" in an extra dimension...

We are missing a simple piece in the puzzle. Maybe maths and science are still too restrictive, too unflexible and limited... Maybe we can´t see what is obvious because we are not prepared/evolved enough to do it...

All is energy, energy vibrates... Physics taught me that... That´s why I believe Astrology and Numerology hide some truth in them. As a scientist I can´t explain how or why they work, but inside me I know they do... I´m looking at them through my 21st century glasses, half blinded but still sensing the truth in them...

We´ll get there, science will one day, and all things will be united, not only the 4 nature forces as we know them today.

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26taurus
Moderator

Posts: 3783
From: the stars
Registered: Jun 2004

posted December 18, 2004 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message

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