posted December 22, 2004 09:58 PM         

I could be wrong but, from what I've learned ego does not stem from the body.

In my understanding it would, in anything, stem from the mind. Your physical reality - body, surroundings, circumstances, thoughts - all stem from your mind, your perception. I think the ego is born into us by our parents & society. I dont know if you read the above article by Osho, but this gives a better understanding of what I mean. I am now also reading Autobiography of a Yogi and am hearing the same things on ego echoed in this book.

What the "ego gift" is, is the ability and FREE WILL to trancsend it. We always have our free will. And being human yes, we also have an ego. That doesnt mean it's good for us and we need it. All it does is blind us to our true selves and is the root of every problem we have.

We can ponder and debate what it is endlessly, and try grasping it through our ideas, but full understanding of it only comes through self awareness. The kind of awareness coming through the heart mind - the One Mind, not the low or ego mind.

I am also learning the importance of meditation, for the ability of transcending ego and many other negative human emotions and obsessions, that hold us back and prevent us in seeing through the illusion.

The truth is out there. Just waiting to be seen. Of the ancient truths I am reading, nothing else has ever made more sense on this subject, and many others. Truth is truth. You know it within. It's up to you to remember it. It's all there. We dont need to wonder about it and make up what we think it may be. It's already inside waiting to be tapped. But the mind is noisy and ego stands in the way. If we choose, this doesnt have to be how it is. Free will - it's up to us.

Personally I only believe something that rings true to my heart - and teachings that have stood the test of time, before I accept the way man has conjured up the world and Life to be. We prove ourselves wrong constantly. Just when we think we know or understand something, it flips around on us. There is One Truth and it's not something men have thought up, or made it up, to be. And it is not outside of us. It IS us, but we must make an inner journey to get there (if we choose), and rid ourselves of negative thoughts, emotions and habits along the way.

I am not against Mind. But there is a higher and lower mind. Heart and Mind can work together. Ego cannot.

Just my two cents.

"In every moment of our lives we are choosing God or ego."

THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental
The Ancient Egyptian Philosopher, HERMES TRISMEGISTUS

posted December 22, 2004 10:08 PM         

Kat, You said:

quote:

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What we can do is use the gifts that our ego being gives us and transcend our ordinary existance. For instance if we are skilled at being a technical, intelligent being ( not everyone is) and we choose to be a surgeon. Then we can in a sense create our own miracle of "walking on water" by being the best darn surgeon that transforms other people's health and lives. If we are an artist, we can use those abilities to create our own miracles in our life and others by "walking on water" -transcendence in our own way of using those abilities. Others have great interpersonal skills and can help bring healing to others. The trick is to find what the ego gift is and allow God to flow through you.

---

Those are not examples of ego. They are examples of living through the heart. Living Truth. We are all Divine beings, and healers and artists are tapping into God within. Serving their fellow men, which is why we are all here. Those people are living in unison with the Oneness of life. When you are helping others and living a life of helping others, this is not ego (though some kid themselves and ARE actually doing it only to gratify their own ego, without realizing it)

The ego can be a confusing matter. The above examples to me, show people who are living their truth.

Like I said above, the "ego gift" is that we can learn from it have the FREE WILL to transcend it.

Only in awareness can you see your ego in a true light. And for the most part people arent truly aware. They think they are, and ego tells them so, but they are not. They are in a deep sleep.

That is one of the biggest tests, to step outside of yourEGOself and be aware of it. It's not easy and takes constant looking within - and constant observation of thoughts and actions.

(**two more cents. )

posted December 22, 2004 10:48 PM         

26T...Kat was pointing out that it was ego that made me think "I am skilled. I must make sure that I get paid for it."

Instead if I thought "I am skilled. Let me impart it to other so that what I had would live. And when I die, everything returns to the pure consciousness that some call as GOD."

I heard a wise man say, death is akin to, when you pour wine on earth... The wine sinks lower and lower and ultimately you will only find it to be made of water. (The water being the "Pure consciousness". The senses are particles)

Thanks guys. Only Lindaland peps me up when I am sunk. Many of my actions these days, are reflective of what I read here. Owe you all lots of Beer

posted December 22, 2004 11:06 PM         

But I do think that just by knowing you are skilled at something, doesnt nessesarily mean your ego is telling you that. You are acknowedging a God given talent. You can acknowelge it in an ego centered way, or in a way of knowing it is coming through you from the Creator. You can ask for direction to use your skill to help others or just use it for your own benefit and ego boosting.

To get to true egoless-ness also means you love yourself. This can be hard to grasp. It seems paradoxical. There is a difference between what ego thinks love is, and what True Love is.

Also there is nothing wrong with saying "I must make sure I get paid for it." God wants us to live a life of abundance but we have been taught otherwise and as humans, especially ones on a spiritual path, have been taught that wanting money is opposite of wanting spirituality. This is not so. We must get over the poverty consciousness that has been put in our minds.

The only thing I can find wrong with that part of the statement - "I must make sure that I get paid for it." Is that you really dont need to make sure of that. You always get paid in one way or another, for every action (and thought) you make. Trust is all you need. God ALWAYS gives you what you want. Really YOU are giving yourself, everything you get because God is in you, so the thoughts you are generating in yourself, are what you "get" in life.

I think we are essentialy saying the same thing. Great thoughts.

posted December 28, 2004 03:40 PM         

I disagree, and that's okay. I'm not saying I'm right and youre wrong. I like to remind myself that none of us will ever have it all figured out, that's part of life. If we ever think we do then we need to stop and check ourselves. Everything continually changes, even our own perceptions of things. We will always have opinions. Opionions are always changing too, and you can be sure not everyone will agree with yours. Actually, I try my best not to judge anyone. And compared to most, I do a good job of it. I'm finding, the importance of being AWARE of every thought I have. This is a discipline.

About judging though, I know - and strongly believe that I have no place in saying what is "right or wrong" for anyone, so I dont do it. Understanding that everyone is on their own path and you can only define your own life, helps alot.

What you may understand as truth, could be completely insane to someone else. There is no right or wrong, good or bad. It's all perception - that is all. Your good might be my bad. So who is right? Neither. Only you can define your own life, and not judge anyone elses choice to do the same.

I do happen to believe ego can be transcended. This is one of the teachings of the ancients, and there is positivity to be had in trying to do this. But if you believe you cant or you dont want to then you wont! Easy as that! There is no right or wrong, only the choices you make, by using your own free will. That is the beauty of life, we have the free will to make any choice we want to. To believe and see things any way we choose.

It's funny because I've just finished reading a few books - all completely different subjects, but they all had a similar message, and it was, "We create our reality. There is no such thing as chance. The Law of Cause and Effect, The Law of Attraction and a few others are playing huge roles in our lives, and we (for the most part) are barely aware of this. We let our lives take their course, when really we are supposed to be guiding the ship. We believe in fate, and that there are just somethings, that are out of our control, when really this is not so. It is our God given right to use the power of our free will and mold our lives exactly how we want them - we are not left to the wind to blow us around without anything we can do about it, though he has left the choice to use our free will or not, up to us. Another big message was that we are vibrating beings in a vibrating universe. We create our reality. Nothing is as it seems. What we think is what we get. No matter if we realize this or not. We dont even realize the way we sabotage our selves when we think we are thinking positively, and we wonder why things are still going wrong.....I cant get into that here, but it's truly amazing when, you 'get it.'"

Sorry, I'm getting off track here. I just wanted to say that I see where you are coming from, but I dont agree. I am living my life from a completely different perspective, so the way you see life is not going to be the same as everyone else. It is your truth and that is it. And that is beautiful.

posted December 29, 2004 12:58 AM         

I believe here on earth or the other worlds, our ego would always follow us.
Its not that Kat is right or 26T is right. The truth is both Kat and 26T are right.

The greatest person I have ever known personally in my life with the least ego is Jesus.

I can give some examples :

- Forgive your brother not once but 70 times 7

(The spiritual truth can be realized by answering the following question. Lets say someone rubs you off the wrong way and lets say you follow Jesus. Now according to his teachings, would you forgive and then start counting 1,2,3 times...etc...

The answer is No. Correct. How many of us remembers thing that happen 2 days or lets say 3 days ago. And here Yeshua is asking us to forgive 70 * 7 times.

The idea is you would lose track of counts and then it will dawn on you that it really is not worth it after all to err against other.

At the same time, I mentioned earlier my confusion about being courageous in a certain situation and not to get it confused with Ego. LLs came up with good answers. And I would like to add one more sentence based on what I observed of Jesus. Someone once asked about the significance of Jesus driving traders/sellers out of the temple. I would not call this his anger. To my mind, I see his behavior demonstrating courage than anger.

I am sorry, if I may have bored you with my thoughts. There really is no one that comes to my mind everytime a philosophy discussion comes up. I am recalling a story, I heard last thanksgiving day. Young turkeys are kindda blind and do not know how to eat. And the farmers, actually mix them up with chicken. The turkeys imitate the pecking action of the chicken. I think these spiritual people are like the chicken I described and the turkey is us

posted December 29, 2004 07:06 PM         

Dean, I dont think that by giving someone a compliment OR getting a compliment from someone and feeling warm and fuzzy is coming from an ego centered place. That is just nice.

I'm really having a hard time making my opinion on this clear to others I guess.

Kat,

I have been keeping constant awareness of my thoughts actually. ESPECIALLY for the past few days, because of something I recently learned about. I hope to stay in awareness of my thoughts as well. When you do that, your world changes.

Actually the reason why I said we are sabotaging oursleves w/o even realizing it, is very different from the reason you explained. But really I'm sick of discussing this. It's one of those things that we could go on and on about. And after many years of looking within I have come to the conclusions I have and cant expect people to understand them by writing a few post about it. It goes much deeper than that and people will never fully understand your views because they havent walked your shoes or had the same experiences. They can only understand from the point that they are at. Know what I mean?

We are all on different levels. Which is perfectly fine. I'm just going to bow out of this thread now. I've said what I believe and it's very different from what you and some others do. There are some small similarities but we are essecially coming from different POVs. My perception is all written out here and so far from what I've read, it hasnt changed. I look at things from an open mind as well.

Please understand that I am not looking to change anyones view on anything. But I've said all I can here. And it's now pointless to go further.

posted December 29, 2004 08:27 PM         

I honstly don't give much thought to Ego because it's just something that never seems to effect me. Maybe because I'm a gemini, and teach love is awareness? As opposed to Leo's or Sagges who may teach love is respect or knowledge? I can't remember what Linda said about these, it's only an example. I can't help but feel though that Ego presents itself everytime someone says I.

26, when you receive gifts, why do you feel good? Is it because you feel special that someone bought you something? Is it because you now have a new toy to play with? Is it because your wealth has increased? In any case, someone gave you something, why feel anything at all? I believe it is the ego that brings you up, and then makes you feel guilty if you haven't given anything back, or if you don't really like the gift. I think this is one reason selflessness is important. People should learn to give and receive without hesitation from the ego. Giving should be easy, but I believe the ego makes it complicated. Some people are too proud to receive, or to receive gracefully. Others receive "too" easily and seem not to appreciate the gift, but who are you to say they didn't appreciate it? That is your projected ego on them. Why not give and let give This reminds me of FishKittens anonymous giving thread in FFA. I never seem to have opportunities to give anonomously. Maybe I don't attract these things, but in any case, I think ego is just something we live in. Sure you should try to be aware of everything, but that should be considered life. As Osho says, most people are asleep, but this is due to awareness not a lack of discipline concerning ego or any other negative emotion or sin. Awareness allows you to see the effect of your causes, hence you learn why negativity is "bad". It allows you to create causes, and not to always react. As they say in Conversations with God, create = react (e). Being aware of which one we choose helps us create in the future. You don't need awareness, but it is useful if you want to learn how to change things.

My last thought here. "Thoughts arrive like butterflies" ~ Pearl Jam. Butterflies also lead very short lives, hence new thoughts replace old ones. I understand why it feels good to maintain old thoughts, but in the end, change is everything. Change enables growth. You shouldn't feel ashamed to change view points or opinions.

OK, absoultely last thought here, is that I have Libra in my true node. It's monologues like this that really make me feel it. I swear that's why I have dimples, but scientifically, I just don't understand true (or north) nodes. But then, that's also the reason I created the numerology program - because I have no idea how it works.

Just some thoughts,
Dean.

------------------
I think, therefore I thank...

posted December 29, 2004 10:18 PM         

-Someday, I would be aware, awake, know, and simply be

posted December 30, 2004 09:25 AM         

All this comes down to is we have totally different definitions of what the ego is. That is why it seems we cant understand each other's POV. I know there is one definition in the dictionary but as always, people define things by their own perceptions. Especially when it comes to something complex like the ego.

The examples you use about giving, to me have nothing to do with the ego. Giving comes from the heart. When someone does something nice for you and you feel good that is not your ego. These kinds of things come from your Higher Self, there and your heart center. You feel good because someone is being loving towards you and at moments like that, the person is in touch with and expressing their God Self. You feel this, and are also feeling it in your heart center, not your ego center.

You said that "you never seem to have opportunities to give anonomously." There is a great thread in Labors of Love to do just that actually. I did it and it felt great. And it didnt fill up my ego, it filled up my heart. To me, there is a major difference there. This has been the point I have been trying to get across the whole time.

Here's the thread: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000209.html

To me, the ego comes from the lower self. When you live and give and receive freely and feel good in the process you are coming from a higher place. "Why not give and let give?" Hell yeah!! I dont remember ever saying not to. That is what life is all about! Living from the heart! Right?

I dont think ego "presents itself when someone says I." I believe it all starts with "the I" - the Self! I think some of you think I am saying you should never be happy or appreciate nice things. That is SO far from the truth. You must love yourself more than anyone else! Sounds contradictory? Yes, it does. But it is not. When you love yourself first you can then, and only then, love the rest of the world. Most people dont get that. It sounds egotistical. But I am talking about a higher loving of the self. There is a difference. You can do it in an ego centered way or a heart centered way. When you are loving yourself in a non-narcissitic way - you are doing a big favor to yourself and everyone else in your life. Do you see now, that I am not saying you shouldnt "give and receive" or be happy if someone complimentes you or be nice to other people and feel good about it??

On awareness, I do think without living in awareness of your thoughts and actions, you are sleepwalking through life. Just like you said, "being aware of which one we want helps us create the future." Yes, and it gives us a point to learn and know the effects of our causes and the causes of our effects. It is very important to be live a life of awareness.

What you said about change is exactly what I said about it in one of my posts somewhere in here. Change is the only constant thing. I agree. I am never "ashamed to change POV's", I do it all the time! That's the joy of life! Learning new things. The thoughts I have on the ego are not my old thoughts set in stone. They are constantly changing and open, but once you come to a realization or truth within yourself that makes complete sense, you tend to stick with it. Parts of it will change along the way, sure, but the essence is still the same. I've been where you and a few others are, with the whole subject. I'm not saying my view is better, but I've been there and now my view has changed, grown. I'm not stubbornly sticking to my perception of it. Please understand that.

I dont know how the whole giving and receiving thing came into the convo. because to me that has absoulutely nothing to do with ego. That is the opposite end of the spectrum to which we should all be striving. Spreading love, making others feel happy, helping your brothers and sisters out, feeling love given to you, random acts of kindness. Although I do think there is a such thing as someone giving only to get something in return or other negative reasons, and that would be a good example of ego centered giving) Am I becoming clearer?

I dont know what else to say. Hopefully you can see now that the way you think I view the ego is not the same as you. That is the reason for us not coming to an understanding.

I enjoy discussing things til the cows come home as well, I just dont like sounding like a broken record. And it can be frustrating when people are speaking about things that dont even make sense to what you are trying to get across, they arent getting your point. Or they are reading things that arent there. They are reading with their own perception of what you mean and jumping to conclusions. Maybe that's just my Mercury conjunct Chiron in the third, I have a hard time communicating my thoughts effectively. Who knows. Or Uranus conjunct MC, that gives me outlandish, or not of the norm perceptions on things.

I hope this helps you see where I am coming from and that our core beliefs arent that different. I think my definitions of the term ego is more broad. I dont think of it as a matter of feeling good when someone gives you a compliment or gives you a gift.

When someone takes offence to something you say or do, no matter what it is. This is one example of the ego I am talking about. And what people speaking of transcending the ego mean. I try not to let anyone offend me. When you realize that everyone is only seeing things through their own perceptions and schemas, you know that it is silly to let your ego get offended by their perceptions of you. When you find yourself getting offended by others, this is your ego. This is one example of what the negative ego is. I believe that it is your choice to feel whatever you want. People cant make you feel positively or negativly unless you choose to let them. Now this opens up a whole other can of worms. This is something I've observed, been aware of. And to me it is truth. I'm sure most wouldnt be able to understand this. They would say, "But if someone says something hurtful to me, I'm not supposed ot get upset?" I say, do whatever you want. But I believe you have the choice of letting your ego get offended or not. Your ego is the one taking offence. You are giving someone else the power to rule your emotions. And when yourSELF is the most important thing to your own well being, this is not the way to go. If you know yourself, then no one will ever be able to offend you or make you feel any negative emotion if you are secure with yourself. Most people arent though. So they go on letting people rule their emotional well being thinking they have no control over it. A secure person, with an ego in check, never lets others get them down. No matter what they do.

Well, I'm quite the windbag today. Please let me know if this clears things up. And know, that I am not trying to get you to change the way you think. I am only trying to give you all a better understanding of what I mean because it's obvious I didnt make myself clear enough before, by the things you all were saying and asking me.

26

....Can anyone see AT ALL where I'm coming from, what I'm talking about, or agree with anything I've said in this post???.....LOL!

posted December 30, 2004 09:26 AM         

No, I dont think so.

posted December 30, 2004 11:28 AM         

"the ego comes from the lower self"
I think the ego is here to transform the lower self.

posted December 30, 2004 11:38 AM         

Yes! Yes! I think so to. There is a reason we have it! Let's use it to "transform". Exactly.