Posts: 50
From:
Registered: Dec 2004

posted May 17, 2005 06:13 PM         

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Awhile back, somebody posted on his life experience with forgiveness. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was about how if you don't forgive you are continously have to recreate the same scene in future lives. Somewhere inside of me, I feel there is much wisdom in forgiving and letting go. Yet, I'm a person very much interested in psychology and self-help and in a case of abuse as is mine, the opposite is taught. Many times therapy teaches you that you must confront the person(s) and issue, or else you are in denial and may never heal. So, here I am stuck in the middle. I want very much to forgive and heal, but I don't wat to be in denial. Most importantly, I don't want to live the rest of my life scarred by the pain of abuse and feel like a "victim".

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Posts: 804
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted May 17, 2005 08:01 PM         

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Well, I think forgiveness can be manifested in many ways. Do you forgive yourself? Since everything is realitive, you need a frame of reference. The only "real" frame we have is our own vision and thoughts. If you are secure in who you are and what you've done, then you are healthy in your own mind. Hence the projection of yourself is healthy, and everything you see is healthy. Sometimes what you see is completely dependent on the object you see. For example, if you hurt someone else, then your vision of that person shows you as the oppressor and therefore your mind could dwell on this. If however, you forgive yourself and realise that that person attracted that scenario and has become stronger for it, and that you have learnt frmo it, then everyone has indirectly benefited. However, if you see an opportunity that you could help the victim, then you could expediate the freedom of the oppressor. But it is all relative. How do you feel? How do you see yourself becoming free? I think sometimes it could be useful to help someone in a similar situation that you don't really know - like a substitute for the real thing. That way the karma is released through your good deeds - it does not need to be the person you victimised. Through your vision you are free, and the karma you released could create positive energy for the victim to receive good things through others. I think it is sometimes a mistake to think the person you oppressed, or who oppressed you, still needs to be addressed. Love, like life, flows.

Best of Luck,
Dean.

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Posts: 300
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004

posted May 18, 2005 09:34 AM         

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I have confronted my mother and have forgiven also. Maybe both are necessary.

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Posts: 1139
From: North Carolina
Registered: Aug 2003

posted May 18, 2005 09:42 AM         

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I agree with thirteen. I think both are necessary. You can't really forgive someone that you don't want to forgive and I don't think you can want to forgive someone if you don't face all the whys and hows of what you need to forgive them for. I think it's perfectly okay, sometimes necessary, to confront someone who has truly hurt you just to get it off your chest and make it real. You acknowledge the pain and the anger, etc. and then it becomes easier to forgive that person, regardless of their reaction. It's a confrontation for you not for them. How can you ever forgive if you're still boiling and bitter inside? Denial doesn't work, neither does suppressing your feelings. You also need to assert your right to heal and not be a victim any more. That can include "forgiving at a distance", ie. if there's someone close to you, say a family member, who is negative, toxic, and has been a source of real pain and distress for you, it would perhaps be in the best interest of you both to sever the relationship and work on forgiveness from a distance. There's no mandate that says you have to accept suffering or an unbearable situation to be "spiritual" or "moral" or "healthy" or whatever. Look at the Dalai Lama. He meditates on forgiving the Chinese everyday, but he's not still living under their rule forcing himself and his people to suffer under their tyranny and oppression. You can't change anyone's behavior towards you but you can change your reactions. Just my thoughts anyway.

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"This above all:
to thine own self be true,
And it must follow,
as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false
to any man." - Shakespeare

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Posts: 898
From: ohio
Registered: Mar 2005

posted May 18, 2005 10:02 AM         

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Hecate... I agree with Eleanore. My take on it:
I think one also has to know when to step away and not be a doormat. I let my family(they are very dysfunctional) use me and abuse me, I was the one always giving, reaching out to them, trying to keep the peace, apologizing for things I did not do, just so they would "love" me.(this attitude I had, led to also two long, but failed marriages where I was passive/submissive, anything to keep the peace, and so I would be loved, but it was not love, I know that now. Being a voiceless slave is not) One day I had enough, and realized that I had to move on with my life. I couldn't just keep hanging around letting them use me and treat me badly whenever they felt like it. I have forgiven them, and I have let go. But Forgiveness doesn't mean I need to stay and be treated badly, sometimes turning the other cheek means walking away. There is no sense in kicking a dead horse. One of the things that helped me, was when I realized that co-dependency is not healthy, and also that if these people were not family, I would not have chosen them as friends. I have friends I have let into my life, who are more family than my actual family. Blood is not always thicker than water. In some ways you could say that in unhealthy relationships it tends to "clot", and in healthy, or relationships/friendships by choice, it flows beautifully like clear water in a living stream!

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Posts: 50
From:
Registered: Dec 2004

posted May 18, 2005 02:44 PM         

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Thank you for your insight and kind words. I don't feel strong enough yet to confront my parents in person, although I'm working to get to that point. I have realized that its impossible to hope they will change or understand, I'm only able to change within myself and understand myself. I have distanced myself greatly, and have begun to stand up to them by using non defensive approaches when they are bringing me down. I had been afraid that by distancing myself I was running away from the problem, but I realize distance is neccessary for my emotional self.

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Posts: 300
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004

posted May 18, 2005 04:06 PM         

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There was a book i read that helped me confront my mother. Your toxic parents. It may be worth looking into. I practice non-defensive communication too. It really has helped me gain back my personal power. The book that showed me this was something like how not to be controlled by fear, obligation and guilt. FOG I gave it away and miss this book terribly. Im going to look it up on amazon and get it again. by susan ( somebody) phd.

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Posts: 898
From: ohio
Registered: Mar 2005

posted May 18, 2005 08:27 PM         

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Hecate! You said;Quote:
but I realize distance is neccessary for my emotional self.

I have been there also. It is not easy, but you must take care of yourself first. If you do not, it will only bring you down more. I know. I am free of them, I wish it did not have to be that way. But when I became emotionally stable, they were not happy for me. Apparently misery does love company, but I chose to be happy. I feel very sad for them, but I had to get on with my life. I wish you well.

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Posts: 50
From:
Registered: Dec 2004

posted May 19, 2005 09:31 PM         

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Thank you Fayte. I still do communicate with them from time to time, but on my terms.

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Posts: 860
From: ireland
Registered: Sep 2004

posted May 21, 2005 03:10 PM         

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Hi Hectate, I attended a family constellation workshop recently and the facilitator asked me what was my hearts desire, and I replied "to forgive my parents". This woman is one of the most amazingly powerful therapists Ive ever met. She said to me"its a huge thing for a child, whatever their age, to forgive their parent/s, but we can learn to accept the way they are". That felt good for me, not so daunting, and it has enabled me to see them as they are and maybe start to forgive them (although it feels like I already have). What I am trying to say is, I feel, it is a very gradual process, and with an open heart and mind and good intent, we cant go wrong. Love and healing to all Sue xxx

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