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Author
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Topic: God, Jesus, the bible and the occult
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sue g
Knowflake Posts: 1463
From: ireland
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted June 29, 2005 12:29 PM
 
I have noticed that quite a few people that contribute to LL are quite religious or follow the bible and the teachings of Jesus. I am wondering how they feel about the idea of astrology, tarot and the like being labelled "occult practices". The reaons I ask guys, is cos I was raised in a very religious household and anything to do with predicting the future or "the stars" as my mother put it was deemed as "pagan". She knows I do the tarot and am very interested in astro and other stuff and when I asked her where she got the idea there were dark/evil connotations to these practices, she said it is in the bible. I dont follow the bible or an religion - it was forced down my throat as a kid and now it isnt for me. I am tho a spiritualist, a believer, lover of the universe, maybe a pagan some would say. But what about you guys who follow the bible, arent you going against it in some way? My mother is even against people sending healing to others, as she states Jesus was the only one to heal. Ive also spoke to quite a few catholics here in Ireland who say they would like to take some reiki or have a reading, but the church is against it? Isnt it ironic that everything I do, believe in, stand for, eat live and breathe is everything I was told by my mother to be wrong, now isnt there great learning in that? Would love to hear your views.Love and light
Sue the Pagan
LOL xxxx
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kiwigirl
Knowflake Posts: 99
From: New Zealand
Registered: May 2005
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posted June 29, 2005 07:08 PM
Interesting that these are the things that i have really been struggling with for the last couple of weeks. I have always had a faith, not through anyone telling me or ramming it down my throat like you Sue, but from an early age i just had this amazing love for Jesus and for me knew he was real etc. I also have this deep thirst for spiritual things and i know that it goes in direct contrast with what is in the bible, yet in my heart of hearts i have to ask why do i have the gifts i do.Only God could have given them to me, and seeing as he did why is it then not ok to use them to help other people. I dont believe in a lot of things, i personally believe that I only have one life and i am living it now, but i would never put anyone down that believed otherwise, that would be wrong and i really respect people and their beliefs etc. I find astrology so interesting, as i do tarot and healing etc. I guess i dont have any clear answers to give you Sue these are just thoughts that are coming into my head so i am writing them down.
peace and love
kiwi
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SunChild
Moderator Posts: 1568
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted June 29, 2005 08:05 PM
quote:
My mother is even against people sending healing to others, as she states Jesus was the only one to heal
Jesus said "all things which I have done, you can do also...go thou and do likewise- and more!
be it done unto you...according to your faith" ...just something I believe to be true  ------------------
"The dream was always running ahead of me. To catch up, to live for a moment in unison with it, that was the miracle." Anaïs Nin IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 1546
From: north of Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted June 30, 2005 12:28 AM
I'm sorry to hear that, Sue.SunChild makes a good point. The woman who taught me Reiki has a lot of experience seeing spirits, and she assures me that Jesus is (often visibly) present during all her sessions.  IP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 1463
From: ireland
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted June 30, 2005 03:12 AM
Thanks guys, I always thought the healing thing was pure and in keeping with the teachings of the bible, but not the occult stuff, like tarot, divination and even astrology. Are there any practising christians or other religiouse ones here who could comment, I am interested? Thankyou xxxIP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 1463
From: ireland
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted June 30, 2005 03:14 AM
HSCYou get the Messiah and I get the fairies - ha ha !!! IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 1546
From: north of Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted June 30, 2005 01:56 PM
The Law is subject to Grace.The Sabbath (the Law, the Bible)
was made for man,
not man for the Sabbath. The true saints have no religion.
They know they are One with God. People have always felt they needed laws.
They don't. "The word of God is not written in books or carved in stone.
The Lord wants to write the law on your hearts." Follow your heart. IP: Logged |
Thorshammer
Knowflake Posts: 306
From: salt lake city, utah, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted June 30, 2005 03:04 PM
Sue...did you say before that your mom was a JW? I know someone did....Like Sun Child Said..."all the things that I have done you can do and more!" and jesus had over 17 disciples. he had a lot, and the woman there too! The Church is afraid, In my opinion. Its amazing all these heads in the church and the things that they are doing to children...and I m anot talking about just Catholics....all of them! if you do some research every religion has there freaks that take advangtage of young childrens pureness...it just enrages me! when I was in Massage School here in Salt Lake City, some of my classmates were Mormon, and they were having issues with Reiki practices...turns out the church THINKS only ELDERS can perform energy or healing work on anyone...and definately not women...that is such a crock of crap!!! and since the bible is missing all kinds of info since the Nice conferences..things taken out so that you and I could step up and show our part as true Gods under the creator we really cant do anything but search the rest of it out. The bible has so much Astrology, numerology, codes, massage, all those things that they say is wrong...cmon what is up with that....lol The three wise men...didnt they use the stars and charts to find jesus....lol. did solomon ask for wisdom from god...what did Linda Quote from the Aprcrypha about kind solomon: "I thank Thee O great Creator of the Universe taht Thou hast taught me the secrets of the planets that I mayest know the times and seasons of things, the secrets of men's hearts, their thoughts and the nature of their being. Thou Gavest me this knowledge, which is the foundantion of all my wisdom...." THE FOUNDATION OF ALL MY WISDOM.... but of course thats not in the bible...funny how the catholics have it in theres but the others dont. everything is so complete and most people dont want to look and find those keys hidden under rocks...ther're just waiting to be found. "No the elder told me its this and that, and this and that....i can't do it!" "they will call me a heretic!!!" Hell they cant burn you at the stake nowadays! peoples faith is so thick, but sometimes the thickness blinds them to not look at nothing else
http://www.carm.org/lostbooks.htm when the Passion came out here, people were on the news saying, "well my testimony is enough..I dont have to see the movie to believe in his death" well i say if your testimony is that strong then something as truthful as a movie trying to depict the death of a man...that would'nt affect your faith or testimony... People are so afraid that they will find out That THEY have the answers, that they hold the keys to the kingdom, and if they admit it, they will be banished and made fun of. I think the bible are instructions on living ones life. many stories that you can learn from and of course believe, but its not the only thing. so i dont think that if you call yourself a christian or anything your going against the WORD by doing the Occult (which is what...Mystery?) I do not believe that God is going to put a wrath on us for studying the arts...thats a bunch of hubble jubble that men long ago made up. cause they were after POWER. Well its coming back to all of us! IP: Logged |
amisha121877
Knowflake Posts: 272
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted June 30, 2005 03:59 PM
"Jesus said "all things which I have done, you can do also...go thou and do likewise- and more! be it done unto you...according to your faith"SunChild - good verse. i think it comes from self-interpretation as to 1)what is Godly powers and whether or not the individual is expressing it as being a God themselves, a vessel for God, or a servant of God's 2)the essence of putting yourself forth in action in lieu of "waiting for God", some people confuse pushing forward/action with not trusting or believing in God 3)a human beings ability to assess what is negative power and what is positive power since it's obvious with all the discrepency that we are gullible/stubborn/entertaining creatures. there are fairies (tinkerbells - i hope they don't take offense to that), elves, ETs, ancestors, ourselves(past,present,future), humans that are physically here (as joyous, horrindous, comfortable that can be), animals, elements (fire, air, water, earth), jesus and a bunch of angels and "promoted" beings who eat popcorn and watch us like we are several different soap operas - so much for "always being around". IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Knowflake Posts: 762
From: Edison, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted June 30, 2005 07:16 PM
Well such questions will always invoke a emotional response. The bible does not say what Jesus did before 30. He certainly wasn't just helping his Mom and Dad. He was single and what would he have done? Think of that. He certainly travelled places, learning mens wisdom, mastering and mastering them. He had to conquer sin on the cross one day. That was his mission. Did you see the movie Batman Begins (new release)? It is close to what I want I want to say here. Batman is trying to cope with Fear. Do you recall battle with the Devil in the desert? There are good and bad aspects of the ALL. Certain things attract bad energies. I do not know much of Tarot. May be it involves invoking power from the dark. Did you also notice how in the bible the evil ghosts feared Jesus? Everything is God and experience. Somepeople choose something or the other.
With time, there is an awakening within each. Lucky is those, who can discern and always evolve. Swimming gracefully in the big ocean. Just pray every day, that you do not fall to the dark side. Peace and Love. IP: Logged |
Devilfish
Knowflake Posts: 304
From:
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted June 30, 2005 09:05 PM
i was raised southern baptist, got married became a hard core seventh day adventist.
i studied the bible often for hours with a concordance to find a words original hebrew/greek meaning longing for love but caught up in the law
i use to spend hours praying
never feeling worthy because
its immpossible to live up to those ideals while believing man is flawed and his divine self is non exsitant but merely feeding off the divinity of a seperate entity (imo)
so , i abandonded organized religion
and opened my mind to philosophys,theologies,and magic of all varieties
the common thread i found was/ is love of self and others as self (this is the tree of life?)
seeing the duality of every side is wisdom (this is the tree of knowledge?)
i use to loathe and resent the bible
until i discovered it wasnt the bible, it was my perception of it
i love the bible once again
and after studying occult things i am able to understand it better
Jesus was a great Magi
all beliefs work togather and support each others existance
thats what i believe anyway.
notice twelve tribes
12 commandments (the first 2 are listed before the 10)
12 stones on the priest
the sanctuary in ot
mircles of nt are magic
the star of Bethlehem
the dreams of Daniel
on and on and on..............gorgeous.IP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 1463
From: ireland
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted July 02, 2005 07:42 AM
Thanks everyone for your replies, HSC, loved the passage, I related to that well, thanks for that x IAmThat, interesting what you said about the "dark side", Ive met quite a few that went there, quite a lot of them religious too, didnt even realise what they were channeling in a times. With all this stuff coming out here in Ireland now about the priests abusing children etc, very very dark - power misused, not nice, thank God it came out into the open!! I totally agree with what you all say about the healing thing, it feels natural to help our fellow man doesnt it? I think my mammy did touch on something though about the tarot and the occult, I do think it goes against the bible personally, I am not a follower so I can dabble without worry, although guys I must stress I work in the light and with spirit (in this life, a different story in other lives I am discovering). Thanks and love to all
Sue xxx
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wildflwrs
Knowflake Posts: 396
From: Albuquerque
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted July 04, 2005 03:38 PM
I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school grades 1--8. I know many people have horror stories of their religious upbringing but it was a good influence for me because I had a very dysfunctional homelife.
After I graduated high school and went away to college I felt that there had to be more...I went to a few protestant churches but I thought they were boring.
My search began with Eastern religions and traditions. I read a lot about that for five years.
Then I got into Spiritualism and developed as a medium. I was involved in a Spiritualist community for about six years or so. I relocated though and went on a solo journey into Wicca. That lasted about six years.
I lost all of my possessions and hit rock bottom in my life and picked up the Bible. That was almost 20 years ago and I still read it. It is a comfort to me and I enjoy learning from it. A lot of people knock it who have never even read it.
I'm not a fundamentalist and I feel that I am a free thinker. I don't just take everything it says literally. I use Astrology, Tarot, I Ching, and I am still a medium with a bent toward Spritualism. (Now I am with an online Spiritualist community.)
I feel that I have come to a personal relationship with God through Jesus and that I am being led on my own individual spiritual journey. I feel absolutely no judgment about these practices.
I believe what's important is relationship, not religion....but there is much one can draw on from religions.
Truth is a living spirit alive for today....within you....within us all....we can trust it to guide us.IP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 1463
From: ireland
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted July 06, 2005 08:57 AM
Well written Wldflowers, I enjoyed reading your words, you seem like a very interesting person, thanks for sharing that with us - love Sue xxxxIP: Logged |
MAGUS of MUSIC
Knowflake Posts: 417
From: poughkeepsie,NY,usa
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted July 06, 2005 10:48 PM
Lets not forget about the three Magi [Magus's] or wise men that visited Jesus at his birht site in Jerusalem !!!
Bearing incense and myre no less ! They even followed the stars, and read of his comeign from the Creators heavens. Any religous based so called Christian who denys that the "Devil" cant organise the stars,,, is not paying attention to theri own bible. Nor are they realy being a "Christian" by trying to hold back the arts and sciences of learnign to read Creatioins great heavens. Jethro Tull may have put it best- Peaple what have you done.
Youve locked him in his golden cage
And thrown away the key.
I cant beleive
Youve got the whole damn thing all wrong
Hes not hte kind of God you have
To wind up on sunday. Let the truth force its way out in this mighty Aquarian age before we destroy the world out of our ignorance and refusal to see N find it. This new Pope could do alot to help us if only he decides he wishes to do so. OPEN UP THAT VATICAN VOLT. The holy roman empires congregation should demand nothing less. Peaple of Earth- why do you allow the man in the silly extravagent costume keep our truths buryed under his mortal a%@ ? IP: Logged |
Tranquil Poet
Knowflake Posts: 1360
From: New York City
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted July 07, 2005 12:17 AM
I went to catholic school for 7 years. I loved it. There were kids of all religions there and no one was ever forced to go to mass or do anything against there will.I am spiritual because I am into all different types of religions. Especially hindu, buddhism, and paganism 
Well except for Islam.
To sexist for me.
Oh and I love jesus
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Gemini sun, Cancer rising, Taurus moon
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I would fly to the moon and back...If you'll be my baby.
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Devilfish
Knowflake Posts: 304
From:
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted July 07, 2005 02:26 PM
magus IP: Logged |
MAGUS of MUSIC
Knowflake Posts: 417
From: poughkeepsie,NY,usa
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted July 07, 2005 10:44 PM
Rite on DevilFish ! Tranquil Poet- I used to despise Islam even more then Catholosism... Then a freind gave me a well translated copy of the Quran. After reading mostly all of it by now ,,, I think the discusting sexist influences in many Islamic countrys is more an invention of unevolved mens twist from what they read... Much like what Christianity has done with the shards of whats left of our old and new testaments. Much like all other "bibles" it has many a good points , codes for happy living, even healthyer diets for spiritual progresion... I dont believe the Quran to be enlightening as an only source of holy guide, but I have been finding it to be a lil more accurate of history and God/Allahs will then the much edited new testament that we have. In the least I have to say The Quran is totaly unedited and completly intact to its original version, nothing left out form the medium/profit/auther.
Too bad far too many peaple once again in religous history have decided to only see what they wanted out of it, and then go casting stones at those who dont ift their idea of what it was saying. IP: Logged |
bleakbeauty
Knowflake Posts: 59
From: Australia
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted July 07, 2005 10:48 PM
You balance it all to love.That's why Libra is the scales. All of life is a code and everything has an opposite. Things either are or they aren't. There's no maybe. Finding right from wrong is simple. IP: Logged |
Tranquil Poet
Knowflake Posts: 1360
From: New York City
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted July 07, 2005 10:49 PM
I read it and found it wasy to sexist. I don't like the parts that mention kill anyone who is not a believer. What kind of crap is that.
Definitely not the type of religion I will ever be into.
Of course only some take it way to seriously.
And actually do what it says.
My best friend is a muslim. I respect her views of course and would never put her down.
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Gemini sun, Cancer rising, Taurus moon
--------------------------------------------------*
I would fly to the moon and back...If you'll be my baby.
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bleakbeauty
Knowflake Posts: 59
From: Australia
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted July 07, 2005 10:50 PM
You need to learn the three lessons FAITH HOPE AND CHARITY.Then the holy spirit will overflow you with happiness. My cup runneth over! That is the third eye. We only see evil when we open our third eye. The I in evil only exists then which feeds evil. Get it? IP: Logged |
MAGUS of MUSIC
Knowflake Posts: 417
From: poughkeepsie,NY,usa
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted July 08, 2005 01:15 AM
Ive been told that alot of translations into english have taken the way my Qrans particular version phrases some of the harsher things alot differently. Perhaps because the particular Muslim saw it that way ? I did notice a major emphasis on subjects like dieing bravely for Allah when your right to practice religion or not live in an extorionist tyrany is threatend...Then it often used examples of having multible virgins in heaven as a gift. Like any other book I dont recomend one uses it as there soul guide at all. But as one of many keyes to the actual truth of spiritual progresion. Just take out all the "crap" or things that dont ring true to you, while keeping in mind its the age of Aquarius now, and we are finnaly allowed [not sure if thats the best word] to know more of the truth to it all.
In this earlyer fase of the age only those who are truly seeking to find the truth beyond any preconsieved notions will obtain a bigger piece to the great puzzle. Eventualy perhaps al will be general common knowledge, even if it requires devistation in there face to finnaly see the wood for the trees...On every last level and dimension ! IP: Logged |
MAGUS of MUSIC
Knowflake Posts: 417
From: poughkeepsie,NY,usa
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted July 08, 2005 01:16 AM
And patience helps find more keys as well. IP: Logged |
wildflwrs
Knowflake Posts: 396
From: Albuquerque
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted July 08, 2005 09:06 PM
I found a leaflet from a Spiritualist Church that I've had from a long time ago. It lists scriptures from the Bible that they think verify different spiritual occurrences. I haven't looked them up yet, but I'm going to post them.Biblical References for Teachings of USC:
Astral Projection: II Corinthians 12:2,3
Clairvoyance: John 4:17,18; Matthew 6:22; Luke 11:34
Comforter: John 14:26
Communications in dreams by spirit: Genesis 28:12; Genesis 37:5-9; Genesis 41:1-8; Job 33:14-17
Gifts of Healing: Numbers 21:8,9; I Kings 17:17-24; II Kings 4:29-36; II Kings 5:1-14; Matthew 10:1-8; Luke 14:2-4; Mark 3:2-5; John 4:47-54; John 9:1-7; Acts 9:1-7; Acts 19:11,12; I Corinthians 12:9,28
Gifts of Spirit: I Corinthians 12:8-31
God Is Spirit: John 4:24
Golden Rule: Matthew 7:12
Independent Spirit Writing: Exodus 24:12; Exodus 31:18; Exodus 32:16; Exodus 34:1; Deuteronomy 5:22; Deuteronomy 9:10
Independent Voices: Genesis 3:8; Genesis 15:2; Deuteronomy 9:12,13; I Samuel 3:4,10; Ezekiel 1:28; Job 33:14; Matthew 17:5; John 12:28-30; Acts 9:3-7; Acts 11:7-9
Spirit Writing: Daniel 5:5
Levitation by Spirit: I Kings 18:12; Ezekiel 3:12-14; Ezekiel 8:3; Acts 8:39
Materialization: Genesis 18:1; Genesis 32:24; Exodus 24:10,11, Ezekiel 8:3; Ezekiel 11:1; Mark 16:9-12; Luke 24:15,30,31; John 20:12,19; John 21:1; Matthew 17:3
Meditation (God within): Matthew 6:1-6
Our Origin and Destination: John 3:13
Prophecy: Joel 2:28; I Corinthians 12:10,28; I Corinthians 14:1-5,24,29-33
Reincarnation: John 3:3-14; John 8:55-58; John 9:1-3; Matthew 11:13,14; Matthew 16:13-16; Matthew 17:9-13; Revelation 3:12
Trance: Genesis 15:2; Daniel 8:18; Daniel 10:9; Acts 9:3-9; Acts 22:17; Revelations 1:10
Trumpet Speaking: Exodus 19:13,16,19; Exodus 20:18; Revelations 1:10
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Neptune's Muse
Knowflake Posts: 56
From: Wonderland
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted July 20, 2005 12:30 PM
In reference to Tranqui Poet's comment about the Quran, I completely agree with Magic of Music. A lot of translations have corrupted the meanings - unintentionally perhaps due to lack of proficiency and accuracy in delivering the exact meaning of the word, or worse, due to "the sexist interpeters of the Quran" who later explained to the translators the meaning itself. The sexist and extremist interpretations still exist of course, and I don't think it is wise to judge through their eyes, or worse, their twisted minds!  And actually, concerning sexism in Islam, it is the practice and demented traditions of most of the people who live in the Middle East, not the religion per se, women in Islam are financially independent, meaning that they are not to be dependent on a father, brother, or a husband for support (money) which is an argument Feminist have used for ages! lol One more thing, I do not think it is appropriate though to refer to something mentioned in a Holy Book as "crap". One may disagree with some/a lot/the entire of what's mentioned in any holy book, but still appreciate and respect what they represent, but would never call it "crap". Peace and Love,  IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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