posted July 31, 2005 06:12 AM         

Well, anyhow, thanks for bumping. And to all you children,

posted July 31, 2005 06:21 AM         

Dont they say (whoever they are) that there is no such thing as coincidence............mmmmm.......

Well I just wanted to say that a couple of people here, Trillian and Lotus have made apologies in the last couple of days, and I admire them, Ive met some that admit to "I would never apologise" (God help em), their very fragile egos wouldnt allow it!!!

I always praise our 6 year old son when he says sorry, and I would never be slow to return an apology to him when I do wrong. I hope I can carry that thro here too guys, if ever I offended or hurt anyone!

Just wanted to say WELL DONE - tis a beautiful quality to carry, humility, there is much in the land where I live and I hope there is enoughto go around here..

Love

posted July 31, 2005 08:08 AM         

Yes, well there's a few things I'd like to add.

I think apologising is contagious - often when you do it, the person you're apologising to will apologise back, and who feels better? I mean, who feels better the most? Not that it matters. Honestly, I'm going through a phase at the moment where I'm trying to stand back and watch things, but I feel like I'm not acting in this play, and yet, I want to see what life is like without action. I mean, if you're always positive, you don't really know what people's reactions are to you until you're not. So by inaction you can see what the difference is. I wouldn't say I play with people, just I want to see what happens when I'm not the positive one. Who else will stand up, you know what I mean? At the end of the day nothing really matters we've just lived one more day, but memories do stay for a while. Anyhow, so the first point here is contagion. But, if they don't reciprocate, don't feel bad. Just accept that maybe they needed your apology more than you do. Just take it sometimes. See, here, I would say you're apologising for previous karma - not necessarily what you've just done "I apologise for the harm you have reveived from me" - not necessarilly this life.

The second thing I wanted to say based on your comments, is that there are different ways to apologise. Sometimes it is very dificult to put it into words, so instead you could make it up to that person indirectly. I think this happens more with people who don't talk much. They might have issues with pride and hence actions speak louder and could get through where your words can't.

Sometimes, there is no way you should be sorry, but like I was alluding to before, maybe there's a karmic pain of which I think Linda spoke of. Like maybe they expect an apology based on things you have no idea exist - by being the first to apologise, you are breaking that karmic cycle - and it is done with action. To wait is to continue the cycle. But then, maybe the lesson is learnt completely yet.

Anyhow, thanks for your thoughts and to allow me to spiral. Can I ask you, do you think people that thank more, or compliment people, are the ones to apologise more, or are some people just better at certain areas than others? I personally find it difficult to compliment, but easy to thank and sometimes apologise (this really varies with the situation).

Angela,

I guess the problem is who will teach them?

posted July 31, 2005 08:16 AM         

How will they ever learn if they aren't expected to say it once in a while? Being a doormat won't always help them.

*edit. When it comes to the original subject of Linda, and apologizing just in case you've done something wrong ~ I did that just yesterday, when I was worried that I'd hurt somebody whose friendship I value.

posted July 31, 2005 11:01 AM         

Me to Teansel. I am a peace keeper.

I love this thread. It is very powerful. there are alot of people who should be reading it and apologizing.

posted July 31, 2005 02:33 PM         

I am suspicious of people that can say they're sorry easily and quickly... it seems like they are trying to move the "unpleasantness" along and out of the present so that the person that was harmed doesn't have any more time to think about the injustice or tell the apologizer off! I always find it's easier, when accepting an apology, to be completely quiet. I don't show emotion, and I let them spill their guts. Maybe turn on a little Scorpio "truth serum stare"?

Angela

------------------
Scorpio/Leo/Leo

posted August 01, 2005 07:18 AM         

I believe we all have the ultimate test at times to see how we handle the most difficult of situations. Well last year my sis and husband crossed my mum and dad (I posted about this so wont bore you again). I chose to challenge the husband. Now this is a guy who few rise to - he is UNREAL, extremely controlling, the type of man whose whole life is run like a business deal. I told him exactly what I thought of his behaviour, I was very very assertive, and my sis stopped speaking to me. After a few months she rang me and we talked, and I told her I DID NOT regret what I did for Mum and Dad. I said I would not hurt anyone and would always be ready to apologise for that, but that I still stand for what I said and always will. I thought that was fair, and at the end of the day a certain amount of the hurt feelings has to fall on the head of the one hurting,......if you get what I mean, like a karmic situation.

I feel, when you do something out of love and honour apology isnt needed.

Love

posted August 02, 2005 09:38 PM         

"I'm sorry that you feel you have to talk to me like that"
"I'm sorry that you don't understand what I'm saying"
"I'm sorry that you are upset right now"

None are an admission of guilty, for you are not guilty, you did nothing wrong. The apologies are to negate the karma associated with their actions. To break the loop on their behalf. If you don't, it's possible you could become angry at what they said, and then reciprocate it and continue the loop. I definitely don't want people to feel like doormats.

posted August 04, 2005 11:34 AM         

quote:

---

Angela, I understand that feeling, and it is the worst to feel like a doormat, but I wanted to make a point that you don't need to be a doormat when apologising. You don't apologise because you've annoyed them, that you don't live up to their expectations, but more for them. Here are some examples:
"I'm sorry that you feel you have to talk to me like that"
"I'm sorry that you don't understand what I'm saying"
"I'm sorry that you are upset right now"

None are an admission of guilty, for you are not guilty, you did nothing wrong. The apologies are to negate the karma associated with their actions. To break the loop on their behalf. If you don't, it's possible you could become angry at what they said, and then reciprocate it and continue the loop. I definitely don't want people to feel like doormats.

---

I didn't exactly post directly to your original statement. The doormat reference came at me, and I responded to that.

Yes, I understand what you're saying. I can see what you're doing as well, with the "sorry" directed towards their feelings.

I usually ask them WHY first.

Why are you feeling upset at me? Why are you talking to me like that? These comments are not said with any malice or meanness or BLAME in them, but as a question with a gentle utterance.

I tend to think it's my 12th house Moon (not that it's an excuse or fact!) that makes me want to know where people's emotions are coming from. I already talk my own emotions out in my head, ie. why am I REALLY reacting this way or what do I gain from this if I say something or is it REALLY worth it (in pain or happiness) to say something? So, I question other people the same "way" if you wanna call it that.

Maybe it's because I'm over my "living up to other's expectations" and "in THEIR imaginations of what I should/shouldn't be doing w/my life" faze, I don't know. Can we REALLY know what other people are feeling, 100%? We all get offended by different things, and I think that noone else can
know exactly how you're feeling. If we do our best to understand where they're coming from, without being personally offended, I think that's the key to breaking the possible negative karma AT THAT POINT, without using the word sorry because some people think it's an easy cop-out. And to make it better, I always thank them for explaining.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: Just because we don't agree with the reasoning of other people, the way they think or react to us, doesn't mean we should be offended because of what they express towards us. Understanding their reasoning gives us the key to their thoughts, gives us the bigger picture of their feelings and how they operate. Sorries are appropriate when expressed after "digging".

Can you tell I can't be left hanging after telling someone that I'm sorry they feel this or that, and they say "whatever" and they walk away, leaving me hung??

The world would be a boring place if everyone was the same, and all that jazz.

I hope this isn't too much rambling for you Dean, but do you question where they're coming from at all, with or without the sorry? See, I took your original post and moved on to the next "step"!

posted August 07, 2005 11:36 PM         

I don't have any to add here yet Dean, but hopefully I will. Soon.

I said something to someone a few months back that I regret saying (knee-jerk type of thing that also involves speaking too quickly while my emotions were flying at warp-speed and out of control) and now regret. As mad as I was at the person, I still cannot justify it. My love for this person is still greater, but we haven't talked since then (end of April) and I guess looking back at the last 3 months, needed this time to get to the point where I felt genuine about

Film at 11.

posted August 10, 2005 08:25 PM         

This sounds like I went off the track, but I mean all people do things they do. Once done, they can't be taken back regardless of motive. The effects though can be negated by taking the higher road even if it seems you never obtain retribution. Maybe next life.

Laura, you've added plenty