posted January 29, 2006 12:42 AM         

Place man in a stagnant environment, however beautiful and langorous, and in time he will become aware that change is necessary for flourishing growth. That stagnation will only produce degeneration in time.

The Tree of Knowledge.
The very intense symbol of a Tree...
what more visual aid could be given as significant to display the cycles of birth, death, rebirth...of change?
Dormacy, new Life, Ripeness, decay, death, dormacy, rebirth.

Timing is as crucial as Faith in the inevitable Ripeness, when our Souls are ready for such Knowledge to be ingested.

Was the true 'sin' perhaps absence of Faith in the Naturual cycles of the Universe?
Instead of using such time of grace and beauty for quiet observation of nature's movement, which might have brought such epiphany naturally in the Soul's time, instead, Need motivated inflicting Will and Control to hasten, without Faith in the unseen cycles already in motion.

Greater Knowledge comes from sensing the unseen, then is ever found in what is seen and heard. What is seen and heard is not always Truth. Instead of going within to the Silence of themselves for wisdom, Adam and Eve used force instead, inflicting their own Fall.

The ashamement of their nudity, I believe most of us already realize, was not due to sexual insecurities and shame, but was symbolic of the exposure of their 'dark side' of vice, they were as yet unaware to understand was as worthy and significant as their Virtue.
Like a Scarlet letter of their Deed, which was in truth, compelled from Innocence, so therefore no such great sin as perceived.

But, it's a Fable and unfortionately one so misunderstood and misinterpreted for millenias. Could there really exist such a cruel, uncompassionate and vengeful God?
One who would place a Beautiful tempting Apple Tree in the very center of their Universe and not expect them to pluck from it eventually? Cruel expectations...another of the greatest Original Sin. Not accepting ourselves for our humanity. Beautiful simply because it is Natural as it is.

We all have our own temptations in the very center of our gardens each and every day to challenge our principles, patience and faith.
This is what helps us evolve and grow.

Silly folks we are, somehow we can't fathom that there may exist more Beauty out there as yet unknown, beyond the Garden of Eden, yet there are multitudes of possibilities infinitely beyond out there that may Blossom.
With attunement and with Trust.

posted January 29, 2006 10:11 AM         

>>>>>A fable....with a small mote of truth...yet warped by so many retellings that it is no longer even remotely close to anything true now.
So yes...the true story has been lost...to most...
The Eden Zoo is of that so called god..."the vengeful" one; not the God within of the first creation.
Read Genesis again.
Two "gods"....two "creations".
Read further....
Eve was not kicked out.
Serpent is of the first creation...and NOT evil.
Only evil to the "creator" of the Eden Zoo.
This second "god" who needs to be titled "LORD"...
Not a very godlike way to be is it?
To NEED a title...one of its many egotistical titles.
And how about Lilith?
Adam's so called first wife?
Too many contradictions.
Or Cain being insulted and taunted by this "second god"...for gardening..as was ordered by this"god"...while Able was praised for being the good one because he gave this LORD dead slaughtered lambs... he was the first 'killer' of a mammilian lifeform....unless we also count LORD's killing to supply Adam and Eve with animal skins.
Too many contradictions.
And why would a "god" want or need dead burnt animals over the fruits of the trees and field?
Or as said later.."savors the smell of burnt flesh"....
Something VERY wrong there....

Original sin is a myth....
No one sinned against the "rules" of the God of the first creation...
Only **** -d off the false one of the second one.
Assuming there is any actual truth there....
Or mere myth to scare folks into submissiveness.
I think there is some truth..but it is not being told as things tuly were....

Ok..enough rant fo now.

But original sin?
No..

posted January 30, 2006 07:08 AM         

Yes, I agree that we need to take the time of this tale into consideration as well as the manipulation and calculation behind the intent. 'Submission'. Yes, exactly, I would agree. You still see this subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) manipulation today, as many modern-day spins on Christianity feed on people's insecurity's with their own imperfections.
This is such a saddening shame. I don't understand how easily brainwashed people are into believing that their Natural urges, desires and characteristics could be anything less than Beauty for their REALness. I don't believe Nature can be unchaste. This is who we are in all our Glory and Complexities. Even our human failings...all of it is for a reason and purpose. This ridicule of imperfection, is the easiest form of prey, when we have from birth, been programmed to believe we need to be more than we Are. A continuous NEED...a continuous striving that will find no end in its misery...no center of acceptance.
No near awareness of where unConditional Love may even begin.

Out of curiousity, I'd love to hear some thoughts from anyone out there in the ethers ...
if you had to choose a 'sin' that would be humanity's greatest and most destructive, to himself, to others and to the Falls of Time,
what do you think it is?

posted January 30, 2006 04:30 PM         

which goes right back to greed. Taking what belongs to another because a "god" told you it was ok.
Such arrogant self serving delusions.
The human species will not grow up until it realizes in total that they are on their own.

A common planetary language sure would help.

posted January 30, 2006 10:32 PM         

So, perhaps it's in not Cherishing the gifts around you and needing more?

Ah, but then what about Vision? Far-reaching vision which Quests you out of Stagnation? The Serpant shedding its skin.

~Transmutation~

Maybe it's merely the lack of balance between both Cherish and Vision . The extremes that pull you too far within or too far outside of yourself.

Not sure if I agree this is the greatest Sin (obviously still in query ), but I found this and thought it was pretty cool.~

Our Greatest Sin

What is our greatest sin? Our greatest sin is that we lack vision.

Our greatest sin is that we became gods, but we never became godly.

Unlike Faust, we do have the means to sweep back the ocean and make dry land. We have power but we lack vision. It is not that God looked and saw that it was very good. The goodness was in the seeing, in the vision. Vision is seeing before there is yet anything to look at.

Our second greatest sin is that, lacking vision, we do not even go in search of vision. We do not look for vision, and we look askance at visionaries because we do not care. None so blind as those who will not see. None so deaf as those who will not here. The age of miracles is when the blind see, the deaf hear, and the dead are raised. But we are the miracle of the walking dead, who neither see nor hear. We are not Moses without his staff. We are Moses who leans upon his staff and does nothing.

We have laid down our instrumentality upon the shores of Babylon, and we weep, not for Sion, but for our lack of tears. Lack of tears is the greatest draught. Lack of hunger is the greatest famine. As Rumi said, “Do not seek water. Seek thirst!" Water is everywhere, but without thirst, all the water in the world is useless.

~Sitaram

posted January 30, 2006 10:41 PM         

"...when we realize that there needs to be a balence found, between self and other, that humans may actually evolve"...

posted February 15, 2006 12:30 AM         

Greatest Sin?

Not sure that it matters. There are so many to choose from:

Abuse
Boastfulness
Pride
Greed

posted February 15, 2006 04:15 AM         

one of my thoughts about original sin is that it's another way of describing the karma with which are born.

just a thought.

posted February 20, 2006 06:22 PM         

Excellent outlook my friend!

posted February 21, 2006 11:10 AM         

I have to admit – those “allegory myths” are so very interesting to consider every now and then. I’ve always been a sucker for fables and such. I'm at a point where, I don’t care, I’m bringing it up anyway, I can’t consider anymore that I was foolish to bring up or not bring up, certain ideas/theories, etc… instead of saying "i have my theories" and leave it at that on the outside while it boils over inside, spilling onto and blanketing everything - i am grateful. I suppose I get overexcited. Regardless, it wouldn’t be the first time someone brings up their own thoughts on this whole Tree of Life and Sin concept – regardless of the consequences.

As per AG’s assessment of Moonie’s belief in symbolism
“The fruit, for instance, wasn't fruit at all it was sex as the fruit carries the potential for new life.”

I suppose I'm thinking a bit along those lines - not so much fruit being sex because i can't feel adam/eve/whomever NOT having sex before consuming the fruit.....i could consider that the fruit bore the intention of reproducing via sex in turn adding "creating/creator" to the function of human beings and those creatures who also took that journey outside of "Eden aka den". apparently, a moment of boredom can lead to a lifetime of inconsistency ("never a dull moment") connected to that which makes us creators in the habit of creating or for the sake of (eye for an eye).

I found it extremely interesting, to say the least, considering that I actually let it well up in me that I don’t recall there being any mention of reproduction, offsprings and such BEFORE the mention of the consumption of the fruit from the tree of life aside from the “consequences” for eating that fruit was, in a way, linked to the affects/effects of regenerating even up into this very day!

All this to say – I look forward to hearing what you think. i could just be wringing the life out of this topic but oh well.