posted March 21, 2006 08:34 AM         

I was just wondering if anyone knows of a religion or religious order who pray with their hands back to back rather than the more well known palm to palm stance?

Reason being, myself and my partner found a very old grave stone in an old abandoned church here in Lincolnshire and upon it was carved the figure of a monk (I think) who was 'praying' with his hands back to back. We haven't been able to find out who used this stance and why, and we'd really like to know.

posted March 21, 2006 02:32 PM         

The Ancient Orans Gesture.

Orans is Latin for “praying".

In mid pose and in stylized representations, the backs of the hands can be held together as if joined at the wrists by bonds. A gesture of supplication and submissiveness.

The orans posture is the classical position of prayer which conveys an attitude of openness and receptivity.
It is described numerous times in Scripture: “Lift up your hands to the holy place, and bless the Lord” (Psalm 134:2). At the dedication of the temple, “Solomon stood before the altar of the Lord in the presence of all the assembly of Israel, and spread out his hands to the heaven. He said, “O Lord, God of Israel…” (1 Kings 8:22, 23).

Tertullian, a second-century father of the Church from North Africa, described the gesture of standing erect and extending arms out in prayer as bearing witness to the cross of Christ.

One of the earliest pictorials of the Church is found in the catacomb of Saint Priscilla in Rome. It portrays the Church as a woman with her arms outstretched as if in prayer.

I have seen a variety of forms of the orans gesture used. Some presiders stand with arms spread completely outstretched to the sides; a few still follow the rubric from the Council of Trent – hands no higher or wider than the shoulders, palms facing each other and the fingers of each hand joined; others choose a mid-position.

Those presiders who stand with arms raised high and palms facing outward look to me as if they are surrendering at gunpoint!

Especially for new presiders, it is important to practise the orans stance in front of a mirror or an honest critic. If the gesture is not done well, it draws attention to itself and detracts from the prayer.

The orans position does not work when done “one-handed” – you cannot fly on one wing! It should only be used when the presider knows the prayer by heart or has a server/assistant to hold the book.

The orans posture is used during prayer addressed to God, therefore the presider does not make eye contact with the assembly but either looks at the written word, looks out past the assembly or has eyes closed.

Whilst saying the traditional ending to the prayer, such as “We make this prayer through Jesus Christ our Lord”, the presider brings his/her hands down and together and looks at the assembly for their “Amen”.

In assuming the orans stance, the presider symbolises the Church at prayer.

posted March 21, 2006 03:30 PM         

quote:

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In mid pose and in stylized representations, the backs of the hands can be held together as if joined at the wrists by bonds. A gesture of supplication and submissiveness.

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But I'm not sure if it's the same pose; I'll post the picture we took of what's left of the slab so you can have a look and see what you think. It's not very clear so forgive the grainy quality, but you'll be able to see the rough outline of his hands and a little of his costume/hair etc.

The slab came from the fields surrounding this church where there was once an Abbey (Cistercian we think) and probably has a link to the Knights Templar who owned the land at the time the Abbey was built.

Templars and Cistercians had rather strong links, as the Cistercian monks were predominantly farmers who worked the land given to them by the Templars. You often find the remains of Cistercian Abbeys on old Templar land in Lincolnshire.

The Templars would also have provided the money to have the church built and it was built in the 12th century. It's called St Botolphs and many Templar churches seem to have that name. We don't yet know much about St Botolph or of his significance to the Templars.

Here's the picture anyway, and thank so much once again for your help. Would be really interested for any further thoughts

P.S. It might help if you download the pic (if you can) and put it into negative to make the lines stand out more? Just a thought.

posted March 21, 2006 04:05 PM         

Cannot see clearly here.

Now put your hands together as you remember his were portrayed....

Were his THUMBS facing his chest?
That would be palms facing.

Or...

Were his THUMBS facing outwards? Away from his chest?
That would be backs of hands facing...with palms outward facing.

posted March 21, 2006 05:53 PM         

Incidently, the link to the archivists document is about another church in the city of Lincoln itself called St Botolphs (which we also want to visit as once again it seems to be in an old Templar area,) but it's not the St Botolphs where we found the slab; that's in a place called Skidbrooke which is a few miles outside of the city. Very interesting all the same and thanks so much for taking the trouble to find them Fascinating stuff about St Botolph being the patron saint of Boston MA!

Now when I 'assume the position' as they say, my thumbnails are facing outwards away from my chest and the backs of my hands are touching, i.e. the second example you gave. The idea of supplication seems to make a lot of sense given the possibility this is a member of a holy order who would have spent his whole life in supplication to God.

You're absolutely right about the ancient carvers and their 'hand-drawing' abilities! We stood and stared at this one for ages wondering whether it was just such an example of poor artistry, but it seems so deliberate somehow that we felt it had to be for a purpose. If you can make any of the carving out, (once again apologies for the grainy pic) the thumbs do seem to be in the right place for the supplication posture of backs of hands touching, palms facing out. You can even see the 'mounds of Venus' curving out from just underneath each thumb as they do in that position.

posted March 21, 2006 07:29 PM         

And some fun links. http://www.ghost-research.org/?select=investigations&select_option=20
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=38005
http://www.bbc.co.uk/lincolnshire/unexplained/assembly_rooms_investigation.shtml

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