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Author Topic:   pluto????
puck_venom
Knowflake

Posts: 8
From: texas
Registered: Jul 2006

posted September 13, 2006 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puck_venom     Edit/Delete Message
whatever happened to pluto????? i was off that news and it seems to be really alarming. (my scorpio friend is going balistic about it)
ps can u disconsider a planet just like that?????

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Moon666Child
Knowflake

Posts: 1362
From: Bangalore, India
Registered: Jul 2004

posted September 14, 2006 03:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moon666Child     Edit/Delete Message
Well, as per vedic astrology, planets beyond saturn are not even considered, so I guess it is no big deal!

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sesame
Moderator

Posts: 1344
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted September 16, 2006 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Well, I think it's a big deal, and really don't like how people think they can just change history like that. It has a moon! It's on our ecliptical plane, It was found using older style equipment. I'm pretty convinced it's a planet, though, I'm no scientist. Yes, all the Scorpios should revolt and tell those idiots off, then the eagles can discover Vulcan and Pan-Horus, and we can get on with it.

Dean.

ps. Welcome by the way! A great second post

------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it.

Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79

My numerology program based on "Star Signs" by Linda Goodman
Logically Magical Logic is Magically Logical Magic! (and vice versa!)

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delerious
Knowflake

Posts: 790
From:
Registered: Dec 2004

posted September 17, 2006 03:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for delerious     Edit/Delete Message
Well I think all these number heads have one hell of a nerve to discredit a planet and from what I've seen on late night most ppl discredit it...

Anybody out there got the scientific reason why they made this decision (then and now - what was their criteria to make it a planet and now it's not?) Is it just by how big it is ? .....


SORRY all you people I'm sticking by Pluto...
WON'T just call it by a number

I lived and suffered and loved by a guy (Scorpio) for alot of years and can tell you it's influence is very real

think they're all full of "horse hooey" if they're so anal that whatever their numbers are our freind ( or portential enemy ?!!!) -less - than a real "planet" ? what gives them the right?

anyways, its mostly hype, it'll all be forgotten soon and the textbooks won't be rewritten... Seems so siily really for them to change it now ? what's up with that????

(( by the way I'm really not that upset about this really .. sure the planet/subasteroid (what they're calling it?) could care less what we call it - but it will have it's influence nonetheless ! ))

seriously though, anyone who knows the reasons that "they" came to this conclusion fill me in... I don't get it

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sesame
Moderator

Posts: 1344
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted September 17, 2006 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah, I think it's about size, but it has a moon! They have this stupid term called "trans-Neptunian Objects" and of course, pluto is outside Neptune and hence false into this category. If they are to re-write history, then I say they should re-term it "Trans-Pluto Objects". As for its influence, I think this could be a sign on a higher level telling us that Vulcan has been discovered and gives just as much influence as Pluto, so long as we understand this and incorporate it into our lives - like using Vulcan in Astrology books etc instead of Mercury and instead of saying "When it will be discovered". I'm reffering here to the extremely small planet in between the Sun and Mercury. It was supposedly proven to not exist by Einstein's relativity, but someone discovered it before he *incorrectly* proved it wrong. I really don't know much about this, but just have a feeling that Einstein was wrong on this one like he was with Quantum Electro Dynamics. Anyhow, that's enough from me for now.

Walk with Peace,
Dean.

------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it.

Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79

My numerology program based on "Star Signs" by Linda Goodman
Logically Magical Logic is Magically Logical Magic! (and vice versa!)

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puck_venom
Knowflake

Posts: 8
From: texas
Registered: Jul 2006

posted September 20, 2006 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for puck_venom     Edit/Delete Message
i totally agree with you guyz. although i'm not Scorpio, this is totally insane. but i am also truely sticking to the fact that pluto IS a planet.planets are supposed to orbit around the sun and pluto does!!!! so what if it's a bit far away??// and like you guyz said it also has a moon. so no sireee... it's still a planet!!!
ps haha... poor scientists can't rewrite all the books and they can't actually do anything about the astrologers(we occult lover dudes are on hell of a powerful group!!! *wink* they dont know???)

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 405
From: Sacramento,California,USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted September 20, 2006 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

I have Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Scorpio. I am glad that Pluto got demoted because now that makes it equal with Ceres that has been upgraded to dwarf planet. Now Pluto and Ceres are both dwarf planets that were former planets. Ceres was categorized as planet and got demoted to minor planet after the asteroid belt was discovered. Pluto was categorized as planet got demoted to minor planet after the kuiper belt was discovered. Both objects shared the same fate. That's quite ironic. Another thing is the kuiper belt objects are transneptunians,and they could probably have similar energies as Pluto. These included the large Kuiper belt objects especially. The plutinos that orbit 2:3 resonance with Neptune might have a very similar astrological influence with Pluto. I don't have any strong Pluto aspects myself. I have much stronger aspects involving the other large kuiper belt objects including EL61,Ixion,Varuna,Quaoar,and Sedna. I have Eris in 8th house biquintile my Mercury with 6 minutes of arc which might be my outside the box,multidimensional thinking that factors into my neurodivergent thinking of my Dyslexia.

You said that they are transplutonians. That's not necessarily the case. Plutinos have 2:3 resonance with Neptune like Pluto and so they can be closer to the Sun than Neptune for a period of time just like Pluto.

Just because Pluto orbits the Sun doesn't necessarily mean it's a planet. A whole lot of other objects orbit the sun including minor planets like asteroids,centaurs,kuiper belt objects,comets,and who knows what else.
Also Pluto having a moon doesn't necessarily mean it's a planet. There are asteroids and kuiper belt objects with moons. Even large kuiper belt object EL61 has 2 moons.


Asteroid moons have been discovered orbiting main belt asteroids, Trojan asteroids, near-Earth objects, and Kuiper Belt objects. In 2005, the asteroid 87 Sylvia was discovered to have two moons, making it the first known triple asteroid. Later the same year, the KBO (136108) 2003 EL61 was also discovered to have two moons, making it the second known KBO to have at least two moons after Pluto.

An example of a double asteroid is 90 Antiope, where two roughly equal-sized components orbit the common centre of gravity. 617 Patroclus and its same-sized companion Menoetius is the only known binary system in the Trojan population. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_moon


Minor planets, or asteroids or planetoids, are minor celestial bodies of the Solar system orbiting the Sun (mostly Small solar system bodies) that are smaller than major planets, but larger than meteoroids (commonly defined as being 10 metres across or less [1]), and that are not comets. The distinction is made on visual appearance when discovered: comets must show a perceptible coma, and they get listed in their own catalogs. Minor planets in contrast appear star-like ("asteroid"); they get a preliminary designation by year in the order of discovery, and a final sequential number and name if their existence is well established and an orbit has been determined. Their physical nature often remains poorly known.

The first named minor planet was Ceres, discovered in 1801 by Giuseppe Piazzi which was originally considered a new planet, and is now classified as a dwarf planet. Sir William Herschel (discoverer of Uranus), coined the term asteroid for the first objects discovered in the 19th century, all of which orbit the sun between Mars and Jupiter, and generally in relatively low-eccentricity (i.e., not very elongated) orbits. But since then, minor planets have been found to cross the orbits of planets, from Mercury to Neptune -- with hundreds of trans-Neptunian objects (TNOs) now known to exist well past Neptune's orbit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_planets


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TINK
Knowflake

Posts: 3213
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003

posted September 20, 2006 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TINK     Edit/Delete Message
I'm neither an astrologer nor an astronomer, but consider me another scorp going ballistic.

My planetary father is insulted. Highly insulted. And you all know what that means.

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 1384
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted September 20, 2006 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
Hello and Welcome Puck_Venom

Only astronomers have downgraded Pluto
Astrologers haven't.

Personally Pluto is not prominate in my chart, its there but its just not the first thing you see.
But by transit it crossed the Ascendant and there was no denying that horrible (for me) destructive Pluto energy.
Its there
it applies
don't stop using it or underestimate its power.
Let the astronomers call it a dwarf planet
We know different.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 405
From: Sacramento,California,USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted September 20, 2006 05:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

Just because an object is a dwarf planet doesn't mean that it doesn't have a strong astrological influence. A lot of dwarf planets could have a strong astrological. There are astrologers that think Chiron has a a strong astrological influence,and it's not even a planet it's one of over 50 centaurs. Pluto is one of 100's of kuiper belt objects,and it has a strong influence. So can other Kuiper belt objects like Eris,Quaoar,Varuna,FY9,EL61,Sedna,Ixion,Orcus,and many others. Those need to be researched more before they can be used in readings. Some astronomers believe that there are over 100 Pluto-sized objects out in the kuiper belt and even some Mars-sized objects. It will be interesting to see how many astrologers 400 years from now will be using over dozens of Pluto-sized objects in the solar system.

I feel that EL61 can be a significant object in Astrology. It has unique features including it looks like a football and spins like fast like a football being kicked. EL61 had a chance to be discovered to be the 9th planet. Pluto just got lucky.


2003 EL61 is one of the strangest known objects in the solar system. It is a big across as Pluto, but shaped like a cigar. Or perhaps like a football [American-style]. Or, most accurately, a foot ball that has too little air in it and has been stepped on. It spins on its axis every 4 hours like a football that has been kicked. It appears to be made almost entirely of rock, but with a glaze of ice over the surface. And it is surrounded by two satellites. Learn all about this strange object below!

2003 EL61 looks and spins approximately like this:
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/2003EL61/

Unlike the other planets, Pluto orbits well off the ecliptic and has an
erratic orbit. For a period of time, Neptune is closer to the Sun
than Pluto due to Pluto orbiting inside Neptune's orbit. That is one of
the reasons, many astronomers don't think it's a planet. I read that
some astronomers feel that a planet should have a steady orbit like the
other planets. Due to Pluto being orbiting well off the ecliptic,
conjunctions to Pluto aren't true conjunctions. There are other KBO's
that orbit like Pluto,and so they are called plutinos. They have 3:2
resonance with Neptune. For every 3 times that Neptune orbits, Pluto
and the Plutinos orbit 2 times. Due to similarity of orbits with KBO
plutinos, Pluto is thought to be a KBO too. It does have the same icy
rock composition as the KBO's. Other KBO's are cubewanos and scatter
disk objects. UB313 is considered a scattered disk object. Some
astronomers believe that Pluto and it's much closer to size moon,
Charon is a double planet.


Even if astronomers took away Pluto's planetary status, it doesn't take
away from Pluto's great astrological significance. I do wonder if
conjunctions involving Pluto really work though because of Pluto
orbiting away from the ecliptic. I believe that Pluto has astrological
importance. I do believe that the KBO's have astrological importance
too including especially the large
ones(Varuna,Ixion,Quaoar,Orcus,Sedna,and a few others). I feel that it
really depends on how prominent they are in people's charts too. These
are real heavenly bodies that astrologers can work with.

Please keep in mind that the Kuiper Belt was discovered in early
1990's,and so Pluto was discovered 60 years before that. The
astronomers even said that if Kuiper Belt was discovered much earlier,
Pluto wouldn't have been classified as a planet. It would be
classified as minor planet and KBO.

Maybe all the KBO's have to do with
transformation,regeneration,elimination,and rebirth. They could relate
to karma too.

If small very distant Pluto has a powerful influence in Astrology, then
maybe bigger and more distant UB313/Xena has even a more powerful
influence. Maybe we just cannot grasp it yet.
If Astrologers say that size and distant doesn't matter, then the smaller kuiper belt objects and more distant ones can have an influence as powerful as Pluto and even more powerful.


Astrologers were only using planets up to Saturn for hundreds of years before Uranus was discovered.

It wasn't like the astrologers used outerplanets for centuries.

Obviously changes were made because of astronomical discoveries of Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto. Astrologers added those planets in their astrology.

If astrologers can do that, why not add other bodies in their astrology?


Astronomers' discoveries have changed Astrology YEARS AGO.


I really don't believe Pluto has much of an influence unless narrow
orbed aspects within 4 degrees. I am sure that if people believe in
the power of their wide orbed Pluto aspects, they either have aspects
involving other transneptunian objects or strong Pluto midpoint
configurations. I have both myself. I feel that midpoints are
definitely significant in Astrology. I find Cosmobiology to be very
insightful.


I have had doubts about Pluto for years.

I am not going to believe in something because it's always been that
way and the majority says so. I have to see things for myself. I have
always been more of an eclectic astrologer.

I definitely feel that some changes need to be made in how I do Astrology.

There is so much investigation and research that needs to be done with
other kuiper belt objects. I think that it's possible that maybe
astrologers gave rulerships to Pluto that other kuiper belt objects
might actually have.

I believe in progression.

Astrology is far too vast for anybody to understand because the sky is
so vast to the point that it could be infinite and cannot be fully
measured.


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jaz
Knowflake

Posts: 6
From:
Registered: Sep 2006

posted September 20, 2006 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jaz     Edit/Delete Message
I don't think it matters what classification pluto falls under.

The sun and moon aren't planets but we still use them.

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