posted October 01, 2006 08:23 PM         

quote:

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The U-turn could cost Professor Hawking an encyclopaedia.

Stephen Hawking says he was wrong about a key argument he put forward 30 years ago on the behaviour of black holes.
The world-famous physicist addresses an international conference on Wednesday to revise his claim that black holes destroy everything that falls into them

He will tell the Dublin meeting that he now believes black holes may after all allow information to get out.

His new findings could even help solve the "black hole information paradox", a crucial puzzle of modern physics.

Professor Hawking has not yet revealed the detailed maths behind his new ideas, but some points have leaked out from a seminar he gave at the University of Cambridge.

Gary Gibbons, another physicist at Cambridge who attended the seminar, said Hawking's newly defined black holes did not have a well-delineated "event horizon" that hid everything in them from the outside world.

"It's possible that what he presented in the seminar is a solution," Professor Gibbons told New Scientist magazine. "But I think you have to say the jury is still out."

Little and large

Professor Hawking's own work was responsible for generating the black hole information paradox.

In 1976, he calculated that once a black hole forms, it radiates energy and starts losing mass. This radiation gives no information about matter inside the black hole and once the hole disappears, all the information goes with it.

"It used to be thought that once something had fallen into a black hole it was gone and lost forever and the only information that remained was its mass and spin," the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge told the BBC.

"But some time ago I discovered that black holes are not that black after all. They give off what has been called 'Hawking radiation'. Because of this emission black holes will lose mass and eventually evaporate completely.

"The Hawking radiation seemed to be random and featureless so it appeared that all information about what fell into a black hole was lost."

But this runs contrary to the laws of quantum physics, which describe the behaviour of the Universe at the smallest scales. These dictate that information can never be completely lost.

"If information can be lost it has important practical and philosophical consequences," he added.

"We could never be certain of the past or predict the future precisely. A lot of people therefore wanted to believe that information could escape from a black hole but they didn't know how it could get out."

Losing bet

For years, the physicist argued that the extreme gravitational fields of black holes somehow overturned the quantum laws. Now, he has dropped this idea.

Hawking has defended a point of view for nearly 30 years
Professor Hawking's new black holes never completely destroy everything that falls in. Instead, they continue to emit radiation for extended periods, and eventually open up to reveal the information within them.

"I have been thinking about this problem for 30 years, but I now have an answer to it," he explained.

"The black hole only appears to form but later opens up and releases information about what fell in, so we can be sure of the past and we can predict the future."

The U-turn could cost Professor Hawking an encyclopaedia. He and theoretical physicist Kip Thorne, of the California Institute of Technology, made a bet on the subject with an opponent of the idea, John Preskill, also of Caltech.

Hawking and Thorne are expected to present Preskill with an encyclopaedia of his choice.

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posted October 01, 2006 11:36 PM         

So, he has yet to present the math to his theories?
Still working on it?
I haven't heard recent news.

What do you think?
It does seem to go against the natural universal movement of death/rebirth, for information to just vanish.
Even stars, when they die, emit their energy outward...which for all mysterious purposes, may join with other energy to become something again anew.
So, this radiation emitting from black holes, may be a similiar emission of 'death' that begets new life in some way...a life that would have tracing back through time to it's origin.

I've often wondered about our Milky Way black hole in the Sagittarius constellation.
If in astrology, we go by the effect of energy of mass objects in our galaxy, why then wouldn't it be considered that the massive energy of a black hole wouldn't also have some effect upon us? Especially considering, the new discovery (well, plausible yet) that there is great radiation (energy) emitted, and that black holes are not just pulling in?
Or wouldn't the enormous 'pulling' gravitational energy in itself, be enough to warrant a curiousity of its effect upon us?
It just seems strange to me that this is never considered....
yet ever more miniscule (in comparison) asteroids are given more and more importance astrologically as time goes on.

posted October 02, 2006 12:01 AM         

Is Astrology, therefore a staid presentation of belief, that is rigid to embracing new discovery? Perhaps not entirely. Thousands of years ago, no one knew of asteroids either.
But...why are just asteroids accepted?
When in fact, the powerful radiational/gravitational energy of a further Star (Sun) in our galaxy, whose nutrinos or other quantum energies may be more likely to penetrate or bodies than an asteroid, not be considered more influential?
Is astrology open to physics? Science?
I think there's so much potential in blending the knowledge of both, in an expansion growing onwards through time. A potential of becoming evermore closer to understanding Universal Truth.

Sorry for wandering entirely off topic, Mannu.
Just spiraling off again.

posted October 02, 2006 11:57 PM         

I am glad you likes that article. Its supposed to be the hottest debate for the last 30 years.

Atleast I'm glad Mr Hawking is not stubborn like Einstein and still has a chance to prove his dreams. I'm not sure how was he able to prove when he had been so sick. I really have to check that show out. I believe its on on October 22. I will post the exact dates soon.

I often wonder the same things as you. Phobos is the smallest moon out there and if we jump on that moon of Mars we would be sucked in to mars Mars is also known to be slowing eating its other moons.

What I liked about Hawking is that he said our own Universe may be a black hole in reverse.

Buddha in his meditative states has said that long time before. He said, he witnessed his birth/death many many times including witnessing the birth/death of universe many times.

All the science laws are proving what the great ones have already described.

I still can't explain what Nothingness is. Is that what this debate is about?
I would like to get some philsophers perspective as well on that show. Lets see.

You are so right, its not just the asteroids and the near planets, everything out there has an effect on us.

I was watching how some of the cosmic rays that gets thru the atmosphere and knocks out the DNA strands of all species on earth. It is the cosmic rays responsible for mutation of our genes.

Oneness is also not just seeing everything in us. But also seeing us in everything. So be it asteroid, planets, galaxy, blackholes emitting high energy beams, or star nurseries emitting gamma rays, they all have an effect on us.

J Krishnamurthi said some thing like Truth are not like fixed points in space and therefore reachable. It is always illusive. It must be experienced on a personal level.

Does the Quantum theory success so far implies that we have no choice and there fore implying we have free will? Do we indeed have to choose between free will and existence of reality?

What do I think about what happens to information? Well what ever we will discover it will be just a glimpse of a transcendal reality. But it will never theless prove to us that all the consciousness of all the human beings are just a drop of consciousness in the eternal things existing out there. Sometimes, I like that view because I do like people to measure God. "Thou shall not take the name of your God in vain."... Thou shalt not built the tower of babel again. Thats being so stupid. There are thoughts which no human being has ever thought. I believe there are stories of heaven up there that is indeed fascinating and has appeared in myths of ancient cultures on this planet.

Have to say a lot more...Let me first check if I went offline ... will be back

posted October 08, 2006 11:07 AM         

Scientific discoveries are confirming what religions/mystics of the past already described.
Yes, Mannu!
Have you read "The Tao of Physics"?
I'm in the process. This is a book I feel that should be absorbed in timely integrals, rather than skimmed over lightly.
There have been a few times in my excitement I thought of starting a discussion on it, but rethought, 'no, perhaps I should finish the book first?'

The book explores the parrallels between the discoveries of physics/science with the ancient beliefs of Eastern Mysticisms.
For instance, Wave Particles in relation to the Tao.
http://web.ionsys.com/~remedy/TAO%20OF%20PHYSICS.htm
http://www.shotokai.com/ingles/filosofia/introtao.html

Perhaps I could return and post some excerpts.

I'm fascinated as well with Nothingness and Dark Matter, Mannu. (as much as black holes).
I really believe the more they study dark matter, an amazing acceleration of 'consciousness' will happen. I've always strongly believed that Universal Truths will most likely be found from exploring through the integration of Science and Mysticism in combined equal measure.

I'd like to return and respond more to your post. There's so much there to cover!
But have to leave for work now.

Have a good day.

posted October 08, 2006 02:11 PM         

ABLE HELL
HEAL BLEAK LEAK ACHE
LABEL LAKE
COAL CAKE
BLOCK LACK LOCK
HACKLE BACK
BLACK BALL O' HOLE

hehe..very deep..lexi..

Very Interesting..all of you

posted October 23, 2006 09:13 AM         

I was a bit disapointed when the whole agrument--as I understood it--was based on what happens to "information" when a black hole "dies."

The rebutter of Hawking proposed his theory as to "information" being collected at the rim of the black hole, but never addressed, atleast not that I caught, what happens to the information when the black hole dies---a "hole" in itself of his theory??

And what happened at the end? Cable went out for a few...something about parallel universes, was that Hawking's newest theory and his answer to his own rebuttal?

Seems to me, since physicists are willing to state that energy can not be created or destroyed, only changed... that the information is kept, held with in the fabric of the universe. I took flaw with Hawking's rebutter (sorry his name escapes me this early morning) in stating that if an object, such as a person were to go into a black hole that they would appear to be broken down into molecules. If this is infact the case, then I would have to say that perhaps the "information"---energy---stays with those molecules, thus becoming part of the fabric of the universe.

posted October 23, 2006 08:37 PM         

What Hawking said about the information paradox is very profound. He said that information is not lost and also said that his opponent was not right as well.

According to Hawking, information is not lost but appears in another universe that can also have black holes in them. It is very difficult to prove what he is trying to prove given that. Because how can one prove that parallel universes exists.

Bottom line: He said memory is not lost. The moments one shares with their loved ones, they are all still there only in a different form. Its not lost. Is n't that pleasing to hear

Cheers.

M