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posted February 10, 2007 12:23 PM         

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despite what we generally think of mathematics, the system is not actually made up of numbers and the principles that express relationships between numbers. rather the mathematical system consists of the idea of numbers and the idea of principles. this is no hairsplitting distinction. mathematics has not physical existence. the entire system is a mental concept -- a tool of the mind -- that we express with written symbols in order to make it easier to use. its use can apply to anything having form. the term "form" is employed here in its broad physical meaning, which encompasses all that makes up the physical, manifested level of existence. here all aspects of life are characterized by having "structure, pattern, organization, or an essential nature." this is what mathematics is all about in the final analysis. it is a grand metaphor of this inclusive concept of form. all the diverse uses of mathematics are but specific applications of this archetypal symbolism of form. for these reasons, it can be said of mathematics that it symbolizes the nature of form itself. form is the true subject matter, the real meaning, of mathematics. thus mathematics is more than a technical form of knowledge. it is a philosophy because it is an interpreter of this plane of existence, the archtypal level of form.

from The Complete Book of Numbers -- The Power of Number Symbols to Shape Reality
Steven Scott Pither

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posted February 11, 2007 03:32 AM         

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Naiad,

That was cool.

Makes me think, we were all concepts (just as maths hehehe) with our creators originally, then we descended to the world of matter (just as each number manifests out of nowhere and gets its identity).

Similary we descendent to the world of atoms and identified ourselves as that.
Each one didn't have the personality before and now each one has some personality of their own

Interesting indeed.

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posted February 11, 2007 08:27 AM         

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And I will give thee the treasures of darkness
Isiah 45:3

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From: Oz
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posted February 12, 2007 12:39 AM         

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Well, I maintain that Maths is a language that describes "reality" (and "imagination" for that matter) as our verbal languages help describe what we feel or think through our voice - and the symbols of the alphabet etc. The difference is that maths can be used by anyone where the symbols are specific. Verbal languages change according to the culture of the people. Therefore, Maths is Universal, and even extends beyond our planet.

Great thoughts though, but the fact that they are said to "portray form" is the same as what our verbal languages do too, through books etc.

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

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From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
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posted February 12, 2007 02:58 PM         

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Language describes some intangible things as well, things that math can't describe as easily. Can you use math to symbolize cocepts like thought, faith, love, or despair?

I guess that's what makes language cultural, and math universal. But math has its limits, it can't describe things that don't have physical form, and much of the universe exists in this intagible state.

Math can represent things that language cannot! Much of physics can't really be described without the use of math. Mathematicians can represent other dimensions, how could you possibly describe these in words?

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posted February 14, 2007 03:03 PM         

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Gotta play devil's advocate here...
If math can't describe feelings etc., than why am I reading about whether or not math can describe feelings on a computer screen that is operated by bianry numbers?
hmmmmmmm

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From: Oz
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posted February 15, 2007 05:12 AM         

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As for only explaining tangible things, what of imaginary numbers? Granted they're used for electronics, but every time I think about them, my mind boggles as to how anyone came up with them or even understands them? For those who are curious, they represent the "imaginary" (as opposed to "real") part of what are termed "complex" numbers - without the imaginary part, they would just be called real. Imaginary numbers have the form ix or jx if you're an engineer - where x is a real number like 23. i (or j) has the value of the square root of negative one, so I'm wondering what times itself equals negative one? Well, the answer is i (or j). It's interesting (to me) to note that every time you multiple i by itself, you jump from one plane to the other, and also from positive to negative. Anyhow, the other interesting thing about maths as a language, is that it starts as simple numbers (in our understanding of maths), then evolve to include letters, which then include symbols and words, and functions. The functions act like a book that you can substitute in for like a word. Similar to the Internet (like wikipedia) where one link will have oodles of info and contain further links to other info ad infinitum. Likewise, you could say maths could delve into the unknown quite quickly, and possibly never come back. That was one of my dreams (in passing) was to delve into the unknown side of maths, but I chickened out and chose to have more of a life. Maybe in my twilight years .

Dean.

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posted February 15, 2007 06:43 AM         

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brilliant.

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posted February 22, 2008 11:43 PM         

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like this topic.

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From: Ontario, Canada
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posted February 23, 2008 12:51 AM         

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Philbird hmmmmmm, indeed brilliant!!!

Quote:

Gotta play devil's advocate here...
If math can't describe feelings etc., than why am I reading about whether or not math can describe feelings on a computer screen that is operated by bianry numbers?
hmmmmmmm

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