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Author
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Topic: What is Noble?'
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guy_me_19
Knowflake Posts: 142
From: What da ya think??
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted May 03, 2007 04:03 PM
 
What is noble? What does the word “noble” still mean for us nowadays? How does the noble man betray himself, how is he recognized under this heavy overcast sky of the commencing plebeianism, by which everything is rendered opaque and leaden?— It is not his actions which establish his claim--actions are always ambiguous, always inscrutable; neither is it his "works." One finds nowadays among artists and scholars plenty of those who betray by their works that a profound longing for nobleness impels them; but this very need of nobleness is radically different from the needs of the noble soul itself, and is in fact the eloquent and dangerous sign of the lack thereof. It is not the works, but the belief which is here decisive and determines the order of rank--to employ once more an old religious formula with a new and deeper meaning—it is some fundamental certainty which a noble soul has about itself, something which is not to be sought, is not to be found, and perhaps, also, is not to be lost.—the noble soul has reverence for itself.——- Frederick Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
Knowflake Posts: 10604
From: piopolis, quebec canada
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted May 03, 2007 06:04 PM
Thanks for posting that, Guy_me_19!
And it sure is nice to see you!  Noble Virtue! IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 1429
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted May 03, 2007 08:42 PM
Yes indeed, what is nobility? Sometimes it seems royalty think they are the only ones that are noble, but we all have the capacity, but what of inclination? I often struggle with these concepts to do with money. It always seems more spiritual to ignore money, but we live in a material world full of temptations. Is it noble to be a sales person? I always thought not, unless what you have to sell is in demand - if you have to sell yourself and the other person, then I think this is not noble, but who am I to judge? My reality is seen through my own eyes. I don't like people selling things that I don't need, and feeling cornered or battered to purchase something, but there is nothing wrong with the salesperson - they are just trying to make a dollar. Would they consider themselves noble? I knew a salesperson that sold everything all day. He didn't seem able to breath without selling. He would play that smile and try to butter you up, for he knew, eventually, he might want to sell you something, and if you're on his side now, you might buy it. To me, this is not nobility. It is fake. But who am I? In this world, the salesperson is the victor, in terms of success and material wealth, but do they feel happy deep down? Is there true spirituality in sales? I keep trying yo tell myself that money is not bad. Success is worthwhile, but the sceptic in me rejects these claims and says you are only truly happy if you understand the world, not to own it, or sell yourself in the process. But I am completely wrong in so many ways. I am imparting unnecessary judgements. We exist but to learn and teach, and to do so implies we must eat and sleep. To do this means to have money and shelter. Life is about living, not judging. Nobility is great, but humility is much more powerful.Heaps of Love,
Dean. ------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it. Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79 Logically Magical Logic is Magically Logical Magic! (and vice versa!) IP: Logged |
guy_me_19
Knowflake Posts: 142
From: What da ya think??
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted May 04, 2007 05:13 AM
Dean, thanks indeed for sharing that! That indeed is a lesson Leos in particular and the rest of us in general have to learn that, 'Nobility is great, but humility is much more powerful.'In the context of what I qouted earlier, let me ask if you sometimes feel an overwhelming certainty that yes! -- something great is within my powers... That it is something I can accomplish! But whenever that happens, you doubt yourself, don't you? - and reject that notion... And that very doubting sometimes seems akin to 'sliding back'... You do not know whether what exactly is wise: Is it to doubt yourself or to believe? But then there are certain other times (remember childhood or the spring of youth?) when you believe without a speck of doubt that indeed something truly great is within your reach. And you feel that no matter how many times you have fallen in life, no matter how many errors you have made, no matter how many sins you have committed, no matter how much you owe to your son dottir, or anyody... that belief does not leave you!!
And you continue to have 'reverence for yourself'... "it is some fundamental certainty which a noble soul has about itself, something which is not to be sought, is not to be found, and perhaps, also, is not to be lost.—the noble soul has reverence for itself.—"
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guy_me_19
Knowflake Posts: 142
From: What da ya think??
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted May 04, 2007 06:00 AM
And when such a person fails in life... It is one horrible sight.... Remember what Linda said of the sight of a failed and insulted Lion (Leo) [in the chapter of Leo boss or employee was it?]? Remember the character of Gail Wynand in Rand's The Fountainhead? Or ever happened in your life that sorta tragedy or someone thou knowest? IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 1429
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted May 05, 2007 08:48 AM
You know, I finally got around to watching half of the Secret, and it actually explains some of what you're talking about. We "slide back" because we do not act when given the opportunity. If you do not act, you will continue to ask and feel what you feel. Everytime you get that urge to write something down, you should do it, because the result of the action could manifest the reality you've asked for. Inaction promotes stagnity. I sometimes feel like I lecture too much, and that I might not follow what I preach, but always remember, we teach but to understand ourselves. Those who can't, teach hey? Anyhow, I've had issues with doubting "Will the action result in my destiny, or my inaction?" In the end, both lead you to an end, which in the end, could be your destiny in this manifestation, but what you want at this given instance is decided upon by all actions leading to that result. Wealthy people are made so through hard work, which is obtained through passion. Passion exceeds everything really. It's what makes you go to the gym or enrole in a course. Without it, you could sit in thought for eternity, and never experience anything. Indeed, people without passion sometimes seem dead, or resigned to their fate. Gung ho people are usually passionate, know what they want, and don't allow people to step in their way. Is this spiritual? I think to continually strive isn't truly living. Living is about understanding too, not always wanting. As for your other profound statements, I'm reminded of Pearl Jam. In No Code, there's a song called "I'm Open", lyrics: quote:
A man lies in his bed in a room with no door
He waits, hoping for a presence or something, anything to enter
After spending half his life searching
He still felt as blank as the ceiling at which he stared
He is alive, but feels absolutely nothing, so is he?When he was six, he believed that the moon overhead followed him
By nine, he deciphered the illusion, trading magic for fact, no trade-backs
So this is what it's like to be an adult?
If he only knew now what he knew then I'm open (2X)
Come in (4X)
I'm open (2X)
Come in (4X) Lying sideways atop crumpled sheets and no covers
He decides to dream...Dream up a new self...For himself
Now, there is another song on that same album called Red Mosquito, where they say the opposite "If I had known then what I know now..." But both statements are about forming who you are. What you know now only exists in the present, but could be lived in the past or future. Your actions based on this knowledge are truly what matters. The feeling that we can help people and make a difference is ingrained in all people, but the fact that you started this thread is making the difference you know you can make. How do you feel knowing that your words are so profound? How long can that feeling last? How can you maximise the length? By writing more, experiencing more, communicating with more diverse people, ponitificating more? All of these are paths and actions into the new you. The reverence you refer to is mentioned in the Secret as the feeling of alignment with your true self. I started wondering how this relates to de ja vus, like these are signals that you can never be misaligned for long, and that maybe an answer is coming? Maybe its telling you to be receptive, for receptivity allows input into who you are. You can NEVER fail in life. While there is life, there is hope and experience - there is no such thing as a negative experience. One of our biggest failings as humans is our ultra-competitiveness. Our abliity to compare and judge everything. To exist is to be sucessful. There are many souls out there that aren't given that opportunity in this existence, count yourself lucky! Sorry if my thoughts are somewhat rambled and riddled with typos, but I need to go to sleep. Thanks so much for expressing your thoughts and feelings. Great way to pass the time. Dean. IP: Logged |
Lialei
Knowflake Posts: 1454
From:
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted May 06, 2007 12:42 AM
 as well, the noble soul
naturally has reverence for other souls.
IP: Logged |
guy_me_19
Knowflake Posts: 142
From: What da ya think??
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted May 07, 2007 03:37 AM
Dean, thanks indeed for your eloquent words. Sometimes when a person lissuns up and replies, it feels nice. So thanks indeed... :)I think I follow what you say, but not completely. But may be I will follow... In any case, I get the sense that what you say needs to be understood in quietitude, so I'll try... :) Nevertheless, let me give you people the reason of my posting this thread. The reasons are many, let me see if I list you all of them: -- Yes, I did find it profound and thereforeimpactful. -- When I read these lines, they moved me. Sometimes, you see or read or experience somethings and for all your response, your mind (that is logical reasoning leading to understanding of the subject/phenomenon) before can come into play, something deep within you responses first with an 'Aye!' So I really saw a whole lot of truth in these lines, so felt like sharing. I mean everyday people qoute Kahlil Gibran's words, "work is love made visible' or the like. But I found this very very profound indeed and worthy of further exploration and discussion...
So there... :) Warm regards,
Guy IP: Logged |
Lialei
Knowflake Posts: 1454
From:
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted May 10, 2007 10:04 AM
there, there.  it is very worthy of discussion, guy. I loved what you wrote Dean: quote:
Nobility is great, but humility is much more powerful.
And also what Nietzsche wrote about the noble artist having different needs (and therefore creative expression) than artists aspiring so technically for their art to project nobility, but yet devoid of true nobility first within themselves. It is not something that can be faked. Art is inspired by Divine Madness (from connecting to the Divine within). I sell jewelry, but I don't consider my occupation as defining my character or Soul...yet I will naturally express my Soul and character through my work. I am honest with customers. If there is a flaw within the gem, I will point it out, rather than sell them it unawares. I will agree, "yes, the chain is delicate and fine...to be honest, you are really only paying for the weight of gold and gem in the pendant."
I will tell them the prices are marked up, so we can have large discount sales often, to make it appear they're getting a great deal.
But that they are still, in actuality, getting a better deal than they would at other places, because this is common practice in all stores. We used to just have everyday lower prices than everywhere, but had so many complaints that other stores were having large discount sales, that corporate decided we had to follow suit, because without the illusion of big discounts, even though our prices were less as they were, it wasn't believed.
If I know of a better sale somewhere else, I've been known to direct them there too. If my higher ups only knew of these things I said to customers, they'd probably fire me.
But, I do great sales for them and I have a large number of returning customers...who personally ask for me when I'm not there. They know I am real....they trust me.
This brings them back. And it isn't fake from me at all. I don't work on commission...I have no personal interest in whether they buy the jewelry or not. As well as your quote about humility, Dean. Could true nobility (not in its aristocratic definition, but in its definition of Honor)not be humble. They go together, they are of the same magical Source.
Compassion, empathy, humility, honesty...when these qualities are expressed for Real, it is sensed. It's a wonderful feeling when you can sense someone is distressed or sad, and empathize with them on some level and as they walk away, a bit lighter in step,
know you have eased their weight in some way, just from that brief Soul-to-Soul real and compassionate interaction.
IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 892
From:
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted May 13, 2007 04:04 PM
Interesting post.
We have to be true in our dealings everyday as Lialei mentioned. Be just and fair.
Although to be noble means someone with a higher authority, what also is inherited by people born in noble births are those qualities that I mentioned before. But we cannot generalize. Was emperor Nero noble ? Certainly not the history would show. The tibetan book of the dead says that during the final phase of death, we actually see our parents making love. Thats how we determine the quality of life we would have. Was Nero so matured to have understood his choices? Well who are we to judge? Or perhaps of the infinite possibilities that exists provided by God, there had to be someone choosing that path and it just happened to be Nero.
Even Jesus is quoted to have said "not to hide our talents but to multiply it.".
--To whomsoever is given, much is required.
Remember, its only God's sparks in people. Both Good and Bad. So its not really right for us to call people names. To call them bad especially. or not noble (if we are referring to the non dictionary word). Hehee..
Cheers.
IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 892
From:
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted May 13, 2007 04:16 PM
>>>the noble soul has reverence for itself
I don't agree with that. We are not the island in the big ocean. Everything we do we must do it for God.
IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 1429
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted May 16, 2007 09:14 AM
We are God. John 14:12: "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." Sure you can say I'm talking out of context, but what if the context was tampered with? I believe snippets like these are so invaluable, to traverse the ages and teach so much in one sentence! Amazing! I truly think to distinguish anything from God is true blasphemy. Yelling Jesus when you stub your toe is asking for assistance!  Ok, maybe I'm a pagan. I'm actually calling my current rliegion "Devil Atheist" but this will be very temporary. It seems slightly better than Deanoism, but I don't like the negative associations. Plus, I find the name slightly oxymoronic   Heaps of Love,
Dean. ------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it. Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79 Logically Magical Logic is Magically Logical Magic! (and vice versa!) IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 892
From:
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted May 17, 2007 02:30 AM
ROTFL Reminds me some of the fishes in the sea perhaps are forgetting that the sea also exists around them.
Is that how we forget our God nature IP: Logged |
sesame
Moderator Posts: 1429
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted May 17, 2007 10:16 AM
I think you're missing my point. God sleeps in the plants, God dreams in the animals, God awakens in People.Dean. Ps. paraphrased poem. All is God. IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 892
From:
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted May 18, 2007 01:28 AM
I am complaining to the fishes of the sea.
I'm also complaing as St Francis did to the birds, "Heh birds, why are you not grateful to your creator?" Nobility is not my quality but God is glorified by that quality.
May be a little bit of ego is required which we can call our own island. Appears what you are saying is that island is also God. Agreed. But there are people who misuse that knowledge and self justify. Its for this reason based on the stage the person is at, I do not quote that often.
Do you believe that Osama Bin Laden is God too?
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