posted November 10, 2007 09:29 PM         

lovely overview of the thread

quote:

---

Often, multiple meanings are suggested,
not for the sake of concealing any one of them,
but, for the sake of suggesting their mutual validity,

---

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted November 10, 2007 09:43 PM         

Libra is the diplomat,
notorious for parsing words,
and vieling their meaning
from others as well as themselves.
They tend to think out loud.
Often, you might think they have a certain view,
and are concealing it, but, really,
they are seeing multiple sides,
and just trying to state the problem well,
without offering an answer.
Libra's shadow is Aries,
and this is why, often,
their skill with diplomacy
is unconscioulsy used to provoke.

Everything you said is true of some people, sometimes,
but not of all people, at all times,
or whenever a person is indirect.

Sometimes the point isnt obvious,
or instantly graspable,
but that doesnt mean it is purposely hidden.

Sometimes we are asked to consider something,
and we interpret it as an insult
or a challenge to our ego,
because we identify with our views
and our present limitations so strongly.
I'm not saying this is you,
but I am suggesting the possibility.

You may think and say that you have no court,
but you defend that non-court very aggressively.

I dont know you,
but in the short time you've been here,
you've shared a lot of great stuff -
beauty, insight, understanding.

I felt an instant connection with you.

And I value directness.
I've argued for it myself.
I value many things.
Maybe because I am many things.
I've got Aries on the 3rd,
Mars closely conjunct Mercury in Sagittarius;
I've been called too direct many times.
I've also got Venus Conjunct my Sun, in a Stellium,
and I've been accused of being indirect and all that.
I just think I'm so darn clever, I have difficulty
not making puns and double-entendres, etc.,
and trying, with the use of a few choice words,
to suggest a wealth of interpretations.
The point is not just to say everything,
but, to say it in a way that shows
how something can be more than it seems,
and even the opposite of what it seems.
This is just me being myself.
I dont think everyone should be this way,
but I think I do a good job of filling a space.
Its really a matter of taste.

So, you dont like it when people are not direct,
or when their lack of directness obscures their meaning,
creating an ambiguity or ambivalence,
which you find suspicious or threatening.

Okay. I think that is your personal taste.
I dont think it is an objective analysis
to declare that everyone who is indirect
is trying to put one over on you.

posted November 10, 2007 09:51 PM         

you do what you do very well Stephen, with great subtlety and nuance. it's always interesting reading.

posted November 10, 2007 09:52 PM         

quote:

---

i'm not good at the cryptic insults game...

---

Don't know about that. You're better than you think.

quote:

---

what ball? and i don't have a court. nor i did i mention having a question, did i?

---

I suppose you could call it the ball of opportunity. No, you didn't mention having any questions. I haven't gotten the impression that you have any questions at all. That's exactly what I meant by the ball being in your court. Someone offered to talk, if you want to you will. If you don't, you won't. Friendship is offered - we decline or accept. Pretty simple, I'd say. No?

At any rate, as much as I've always enjoyed reading your posts and talking to you, I'm getting the distinct impression the feelings are not quite mutual. I'm truly sorry for that and I believe you are seeing enemies where there are none. We've run into each other many times on other threads without this undercurrent of animosity. I'm not certain what happened here.

posted November 10, 2007 10:08 PM         

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i'm not good at the cryptic insults game...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't know about that. You're better than you think.

---

really? i'd be sincerely grateful if you'd point out such instances. while i may have an opposing view that is blunt, i do not intend to be insulting in an underhanded kind of way. i apologize if you perceived that anywhere.

and while i'm certainly not seeing enemies anywhere here, contrary to your belief, neither have i detected any vibe of friendship whatsoever. and that's perfectly ok. i don't expect it in the least.

posted November 10, 2007 10:10 PM         

There's some good stuff about Libra
in Liz Greene's "Astrology for Lovers".
(Great book, very accessible for beginnners.)

I consider the astrological angle too much sometimes,
but it really is fascinating and illuminating.
All the relationships between genders, modes, and elements.
Its what everything is made of.

But its just a language;
just one of many languages,
which we use to understand ourselves,
each other, and the universe.

Sometimes, i think we are all saying the same things,
we just learn to know what we are talking about, lol.

Learning a variety of languages, religions, etc,
and seeing the same truths from a variety of angles,
may be the best way to really understand what we already know.

peace Tink,
everyone,
get a good night's sleep.

posted November 10, 2007 10:34 PM         

quote:

---

Learning a variety of languages, religions, etc,
and seeing the same truths from a variety of angles,
may be the best way to really understand what we already know.

---

Truer words were never spoken. I've spent a good deal of time lately comparing various religious paths and languages, and I agree completely. "seeking the spheres to connect them .." It has proved most fruitful.

quote:

---

peace Tink,
everyone,
get a good night's sleep.

---

good advice
peace to you too, steve. and a good nights sleep

posted November 10, 2007 10:47 PM         

(gotta love the passive tense -- voice, i mean voice...excuse me.)

posted November 10, 2007 11:08 PM         

quote:

---

Truer words were never spoken. I've spent a good deal of time lately comparing various religious paths and languages, and I agree completely. "seeking the spheres to connect them .." It has proved most fruitful.

---

Good for you!

(I mean that, lol.)

quote:

---

good advice
peace to you too, steve.
and a good nights sleep

---

Thank you.

Okay, I'm really going now.

Nobody say anything good till I get back.

night,
s

posted November 10, 2007 11:26 PM         

quote:

---

perceived or not, expected or not, it was there. And continues to be so. And that's about as direct and straightforward as this Scorp knows how to be.

---

oh my goodness!

i really am very bad at this nuanced and subtle game.

you see, i thought Tink was referring to friendship....deriving from whom, i still don't know....Listens to Trees maybe.

but i'm quite slow on the uptake...lol. she also was referring to the underhanded insults misperception. or she wasn't.

it's all for me to believe, interpret, or divine what i will, isn't it, what multiple meanings are there, and which ones i should desire apply?

oh dear, Stephen, it appears that you were wrong and so was i. our will is ineffably free to absorb whatever we will from what anyone says -- intended meanings, if any, do not apply. or they do, and we can feel the fatal sting of the insult. or they do not, and we can flatter ourselves that someone was actually genuinely kind. in the end, it isn't the intention at all, simply the reception that matters.

posted November 11, 2007 02:46 AM         

It was kind of you to miss me My respects to you as always.

And now....

Hi Saffron, its me Shizuka,

Those are beautiful poems that you posted. I've been away for a long time and happened here by chance. I've changed in these years and you've inspired the following from me to you:

Saffron's Dance

The Grace of Despair, is the Moth's dear treasure

I see your beauty, which others measure

To see a light in an infinite heart

With tears of longing, from the Lover we're apart

Sing on, Dance on,
Cease never
You are remembered
As you remember

All the best,
Shizuka

posted November 11, 2007 05:11 AM         

Zanya, your wit makes me laugh....court and ball.....lol.

Well, I have moon in Libra very closely conjunct Pluto and I always try to look at things from all angles.
Also, when I have been occasionally accused of having ill intentions or secret intentions, I know this stings me deeply. I am easily hurt.

I don't think anyone is truly in a position to judge another.
I like the following quote a lot:

"Assumption is the antithesis of understanding".

and

posted November 11, 2007 05:00 PM         

quote:

---

Peace Saffron from Meili,
It was kind of you to miss me My respects to you as always.

And now....

Hi Saffron, its me Shizuka,

Those are beautiful poems that you posted. I've been away for a long time and happened here by chance. I've changed in these years and you've inspired the following from me to you:

Saffron's Dance

The Grace of Despair, is the Moth's dear treasure

I see your beauty, which others measure

To see a light in an infinite heart

With tears of longing, from the Lover we're apart

Sing on, Dance on,
Cease never
You are remembered
As you remember

All the best,
Shizuka

---

thank you Meili and Shizuka.

it's delightful seeing you here!

these words to me are beautiful, and filled my heart with light.