posted May 09, 2008 02:54 PM              

But I can't help but wonder,
whether these things are just basically attempts to put more labels on people and things?

posted May 09, 2008 03:21 PM            

I think, just like astrology, you are not stuck with your sun sign.

You may have a primary enneagram type, a secondary, a third.

You may have two or three that exert approximately equal influence and expression.

It is complicated.

But these are all just ways to try to help us understand ourselves and each other.

I think there are very real differences between people which mustnt be overlooked.

I think that not seeing and understanding these differences
leads to more conflict than seeing them.

But, yes, we should always be willing to remember our similarities, as well.

posted May 09, 2008 03:23 PM              

quote:

---

I think there are very real differences between people which mustnt be overlooked.

I think that not seeing and understanding these differences
leads to more conflict than seeing them.

But, yes, we should always be willing to remember our similarities, as well.

---

posted May 09, 2008 03:28 PM              

It is complicated".

posted May 10, 2008 01:58 PM            

It pretty much pegs my tendency to isolate, hoard my time, observe, and shy away from emotions. "i don't need anyone" is my motto, and reading this helps emphasize that this is not the way to live life.

Thanks HSC

posted May 10, 2008 08:40 PM            

Just wanted to thank you again for posting this.

My mind has been kind of spinning today, realizing how much the 5 description fits me. Wikipedia had further info which was very enlightening.

I started to mull over the idea of withdrawing from the world, and why it's something that myself and many do. The description talks about scarcity of energy and resources. There is some psychological effect that makes one thing that one might run out of energy, or time, or other resources, but I believe this leads to a loss of potency. A psychological castration if you will.

posted May 10, 2008 08:42 PM            

One of Nietzsche's central concepts is "the Will to Power" (Wille zur Macht), an abstract process of expansion and imposition. He hypothesizes that it could be taken as the fundamental causal power in the world, something to which all other causal powers can be reduced. That is, Nietzsche in part hoped Will to Power could be a "theory of everything", providing the ultimate foundations for explanations of everything from whole societies, to individual organisms, to lumps of matter. In contrast to the "theories of everything" attempted in physics, Nietzsche's was teleological in nature.

>Nietzsche perhaps developed the Will to Power concept furthest with regards to living organisms, and it is there where the concept is perhaps easiest to understand. There, the Will to Power is taken as an animal's most fundamental instinct or drive. Will to Power is something like the desire to exert one's will, although it may well be unconscious. Arthur C. Danto says that "aggression" is at least sometimes an approximate synonym. In any case, since the Will to Power is fundamental, any other drives are to be reduced to it; the "will to survive" that Biologists (at least in Nietzsche's day) thought to be fundamental, for example, was really to be explained as a manifestation of the Will to Power.

Not just instincts but also higher level behaviors (even in humans) were to be reduced to the Will to Power. This includes both such apparently harmful acts as physical violence, lying, and domination, on one hand, and such apparently non-harmful acts as gift-giving, love, and praise on the other. In Beyond Good and Evil, he claims that philosophers' "will to truth" should be nothing more than a manifestation of their Will to Power; when it is not, the will to truth is nothing more than nihilism.

As indicated above, though, the Will to Power is to explain more than just an individual animal. The Will to Power is also to be the explanation for, e.g., why matter behaves it does, why plants grow, and why social classes behave as they do.

The Will to Power and psychology

The Will to Power is in part a psychological theory. Nonetheless, it has been more or less ignored by psychology as a discipline.

Similar ideas in others' thought

With respect to the Will to Power, Nietzsche was strongly influenced by Arthur Schopenhauer and his concept of "the Will to live". Other ideas similar to Nietzsche's are Crowley's "Law of Thelema" (the Law of Willpower--"Do what thou wilt"), Taoism, which holds that to follow one's own natural wills will bring about a happier existence, and Hegel's theory of history.

Criticism of the idea

Although the idea may seem harsh to some, others see Nietzsche's "will to power" -- or, as he famously put it, the ability to "say yes! to life" -- as life-affirming. Creatures affirm instinct in exerting power and dominance. The suffering born of conflict between competing wills and the efforts to overcome one's environment is not evil, but a part of existence to be embraced in that it signifies the healthy expression of the natural order. Enduring satisfaction and pleasure result from living by instinct and successfully exerting the will to power.

posted May 11, 2008 01:27 PM            

Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||| 46%
Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||| 54%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||||||||||| 82%
Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||| 30%
Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||||| 62%
Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||||| 42%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||| 50%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||||||| 70%

This one says:

Type 1: 6
Type 2: -5
Type 3: -3
Type 4: 3
Type 5: 7
Type 6: -5
Type 7: 2
Type 8: -6
Type 9: 1

Not very congruent scores.

I'll try one more: Test

Another incongruent result:

posted May 11, 2008 01:37 PM            

I'm so glad you are finding this helpful.
It is fascinating, isnt it.

quote:

---

I believe Nietzsche may be the antidote to the hermit.

---

haha! Yes. I think you are on to something.

quote:

---

The suffering born of conflict between competing wills and the efforts to overcome one's environment is not evil, but a part of existence to be embraced in that it signifies the healthy expression of the natural order.

---

posted May 11, 2008 01:44 PM            

The first link didnt work for me.

The second test has only 36 questions.
I wouldnt think that would be nearly enough.
I didnt see a test on the third link.

It seems there are a few Enneagram variations out there.

I have one book on it somewhere
(actually, I might have given it away;
I have a custom of bringing used books with me
when i visit my friends, as a "thank you for having me").
I'd recommend reading the chapters of the ones you identify with,
or the whole book, if you feel so inclined.

This is the one: http://www.amazon.com/Personality-Types-Using-Enneagram-Self-Discovery/dp/0395798671/ref=pd_sim_b_img_1

As you can see, when you scroll down,
there are a lot of books on this,
all offering a slightly different take.