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Author Topic:   Genius
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 10765
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 12, 2009 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
(from: Twilight of the Idols -- by Friedrich Nietzsche)


Great men, like great ages, are explosives in which a tremendous force is stored up; their precondition is always, historically and physiologically, that for a long time much has been gathered, stored up, saved up, and conserved for them--that there has been no explosion for a long time. Once the tension in the mass becomes too great, then the most accidental stimulas suffices to summon into the world the 'genius,' the 'deed,' the great destiny. What does the environment matter then, or the age, or the 'spirit of the age,' or 'public opinion'!

...Great men are necessary, the age in which they appear is accidental; that they almost always become masters over their age is only because they are stronger, because they are older, because for a longer time much was gathered for them. The relationship between a genius and his age is like that between strong and weak, or between old and young: the age is relatively always much younger, thinner, more immature, less assured, more childish.

...The danger that lies in great men and ages is extraordinary; exhaustion of every kind, sterility, follow in their wake. The great human being is a finale; the great age — the Renaissance, for example — is a finale. The genius, in work and deed, is necessarily a squanderer: that he squanders himself, that is his greatness! The instinct of self-preservation is suspended, as it were: the overpowering pressure of outflowing forces forbids him any such care or caution. People call this "self-sacrifice" and praise his "heroism," his indifference to his own well-being, his devotion to an idea, a great cause, a fatherland: without exception, misunderstandings. He flows out, he overflows, he uses himself up, he does not spare himself — and this is a calamitous involuntary fatality, no less than a river's flooding the land.

...let us think of men so constituted that for one reason or another, they lack public approval and know that they are not felt to be beneficent or useful — that chandala feeling that one is not considered equal, but an outcast, unworthy, contaminating. All men so constituted have a subterranean hue to their thoughts and actions; everything about them becomes paler than in those whose existence is touched by daylight. Yet almost all forms of existence which we consider distinguished today once lived in this half tomblike atmosphere: the scientific character, the artist, the genius, the free spirit, the actor, the merchant, the great discoverer... All innovators of the spirit must for a time bear the pallid and fatal mark of the chandala on their foreheads — not because they are considered that way by others, but because they themselves feel the terrible cleavage which separates them from everything that is customary or reputable. Almost every genius knows, as one stage of his development, the "Catilinarian existence" — a feeling of hatred, revenge, and rebellion against everything which already is, which no longer becomes. Catiline — the form of pre-existence of every Caesar.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 10765
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 12, 2009 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
What the "higher schools" in Germany really achieve is a brutal training, designed to prepare huge numbers of young men, with as little loss of time as possible, to become usable, abusable, in government service... our "higher schools" are all set up for the most ambiguous mediocrity... And everywhere an indecent haste prevails, as if something would be lost if the young man of twenty-three were not yet "finished", or if he did not yet know the answer to the "main question": which calling? A higher kind of human being, if I may say so, does not like "callings," precisely because he knows himself to be called. He has time, he takes time, he does not even think of "finishing": at thirty one is, in the sense of high culture, a beginner, a child.

~ Twilight of the Idols

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Ariefairy
Knowflake

Posts: 182
From: Mars
Registered: May 2008

posted January 14, 2009 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ariefairy     Edit/Delete Message
wow.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 10765
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 14, 2009 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
That could mean anything.

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sesame
Moderator

Posts: 1657
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted January 15, 2009 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah, when was that published? It is quite interesting, and reminds me of "cool people". I believe they are so defined because they live outside of the climate they're subjected to. They are above it and have their own rules giving little regard to any imposed. They don't give too much of themselves though, and almost seem languid in the contributions they make, but in some way, they too are genius, because they have some things worked out.

Have you read the book "Genius" By James Gleick? It's about Richard Feynman, a quantum physicist.

I don't understand the sentence "at thirty one is, in the sense of high culture, a beginner, a child." Is he saying you are a n00b at 31? Anyone seen Pure Pwnage - the internet show? That's genius

Dean.

------------------
I realized it for the first time in my life:
there is nothing but mystery in the world,
how it hides behind the fabric of our poor,
browbeat days, shining brightly, and we don't even know it.

Sue Monk Kidd, "The Secret Life of Bees", p79

Logically Magical Logic is Magically Logical Magic! (and vice versa!)
Check out my free Chaldean Numerology Program based on Star Signs by Linda Goodman or my home page.

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Ariefairy
Knowflake

Posts: 182
From: Mars
Registered: May 2008

posted January 15, 2009 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ariefairy     Edit/Delete Message
sorry yes am a tad vague....this sentence really spoke out to me...im astonished...it surmises vague thoughts and feelings in my own mind. Good ol Nietsche

HSC quote: Yet almost all forms of existence which we consider distinguished today once lived in this half tomblike atmosphere: the scientific character, the artist, the genius, the free spirit, the actor, the merchant, the great discoverer... All innovators of the spirit must for a time bear the pallid and fatal mark of the chandala on their foreheads — not because they are considered that way by others, but because they themselves feel the terrible cleavage which separates them from everything that is customary or reputable.

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Ariefairy
Knowflake

Posts: 182
From: Mars
Registered: May 2008

posted January 15, 2009 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ariefairy     Edit/Delete Message
correctamundo: ***Nietzsche

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 10765
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted March 23, 2009 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
sesame --


He is saying that, at 30, one has been studying culture for decades, yet, is just becoming aware of all that has gone before, and is not yet likely to contribute anything which has original value (which has not been said before) and which clarifies what has already been said. And I agree that genius has something which "cool people" have, and that is an attunement to the outer planets. These planets are indeed casual from the perspective of the status quo. They are hardly willing to lift a finger, in order to preserve the prevailing conditions, but they may be able to put incredible effort into revolutionary pursuits. However, an abundance of intellect, or insight, is naturally compensated for by a deficiency of will. The common man, or the "man of action", makes use of thoughts without concern for their reasonability, and is only concerned with their effectiveness in spurring him on to action. The man who thinks enters into intricate questions and problems which must be resolved before action can be taken. So, Nietzsche is saying that a man who thinks is not nearly prepared to act at the age of 30. Meanwhile others have been active all the while, and civilization is, as a consquence, in decline. The dull mind is always looking for something to do. Men of action are primarily active, not in order to be productive, but, in order to keep themselves busy. They fear nothing so much as being alone with their thoughts, or being asked to consider the reasons in support of the convictions that inform their actions. Doing nothing, for them, means being bored, or "thinking too much". They spend their free time seeking sensual pleasures and distractions, and this is what they think everyone does when they are not engaged in some traditional occupation. Schopenhauer writes that they deal cards, because they have no thoughts. The thinker, on the other hand, seeks repose because this is the condition needed for his work. He prefers solitude and quiet, because he can think under these conditions. The common man prefers the bustle of labor and society, as this is where he can best silence his thoughts. Because the masculine principle is dominant in our age and civilization, there is an over-emphasis on the life of action, on competition, ambition, achievement, hard work, etc. Our civilization is like a top-heavy natal chart, with an emphasis in the 10th house, but a lack of influence in the 4th, which is connected to the roots of the being, and can provide a stable center from which to act. The feminine principle, which these "chandalas" seem to sense is lacking in our time, suggests that time spent resting and reflecting is not wasted. The man of action is always being admired for his willingness to go to war. It is time we admired the man of thought for his willingness to go within.

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Quinnie
Knowflake

Posts: 1657
From: on a chair beside a window
Registered: Jul 2002

posted March 24, 2009 08:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Quinnie     Edit/Delete Message
Friedrich Nietzsche..... A Libran!
Librans can get the label of 'lazy'...... To the untrained eye it may look as if the body is inactive but the mind is doing sommersualts and mental gymnastics...

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*lovely*
Knowflake

Posts: 62
From:
Registered: Oct 2007

posted March 24, 2009 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for *lovely*     Edit/Delete Message
I came across this insightful speech on "genius" by the author of eat pray love, discussing the origins of "genius"
and the pressure on our creative people.
http://tolemac.net/blog/307/elizabeth-gilbert-on-genius/

I'd like to hear your thoughts on it, HSC and anyone else....

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 10765
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted March 24, 2009 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
That was interesting, lovely.

I always liked the idea of attending spirits. I believe in Determinism, and I've used this understanding, with some success, to detach from myself and my work, and to see it all as something "other". Nevertheless, the temptation is always there to internalize it, and despite my efforts at rationalizing, there is something in me which jumps at the opportunity to take credit for the work. I have never been able to take ideas part of the way.. they carry me speedily to their most extreme embodiment, and I often feel I must "jump train" to avoid going over a cliff or slamming into a wall. Determinism is no different. The problem is that, taken to its conclusion, determinism leads to mysticism, -- and the realization that all is God can be very confusing; not only can I take no credit for the inspiration, but, I can't take credit for anything. The implications of this are so widespread and so overwhelming, I am tempted to disengage from the idea altogether. And yet, it has taken possession. This is something I have been caught up in for over a decade now. ... I love what she said about the poet, Ruth Stone's creative process. That was pretty cool. I've never experienced anything like that, but I have often felt like I was "in the zone", and the things I've written durring those times did seem to write themselves. A few times, the poem or whatever it was poured out effortlessly as though it were already written. Also, it happens sometimes when I am writing, that a word which I do not know (or did not consciously know), suddenly suggests itself and later I will look it up and discover it was THE perfect word for the context. This has always seemed strange to me. Often I will go for a long period of time without writing something I am proud of, but all this time I am working out ideas.. and then one day, when all these ideas have matured and are ready, I'll get inspired and something will pour out, and I will see how it touches on all these things I've been thinking about, and weaves them together in ways I never anticipated. This is something like a pregnancy and birth.

Well, those are my immediate thoughts.

Thank you for the video.

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*lovely*
Knowflake

Posts: 62
From:
Registered: Oct 2007

posted March 26, 2009 01:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for *lovely*     Edit/Delete Message
cool HSC glad you enjoyed the vid. I've seen some of your work here (poems), you're a musician too, yes?

Those zones are so blessed and inspiring~~~

much love,

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 10765
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted March 27, 2009 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Weird, I've had people assume, or suspect, I was a musician a number of times.
Maybe it is the long hair, lol?

I used to mess around with a guitar,
but it fizzled out.

I do go around inventing tunes in my head some days,
and sometimes wish i had a taperecorder, lol.
But words are my passion.

I also wanted to say that, one way I have found to detach from the process,
is to take a pseudonym, which allows me to see it as coming from the "character".

My nom de plume is Valus.
Or, Valerian Silvanus Valus.

I think of it as my daemon and, sometimes, my higher self.

Not everything I say or write (or am) is worthy of Valus.

Sometimes, though, I identify too much with Valus,
and this can result in negative ego inflation.

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*lovely*
Knowflake

Posts: 62
From:
Registered: Oct 2007

posted March 27, 2009 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for *lovely*     Edit/Delete Message
nice you are aware of those ego tendencies and admit to them, the higher self would definately assist you in your writing.

ok yeah thought you were a musician lol - ur right must be the hair!

all the best~~

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sesame
Moderator

Posts: 1657
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted April 01, 2009 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
Well, I think in some ways, there needs to be a balance between thought and action. I would love to fall off the deep end of thought, and never return for twenty years, but I am afraid that's what happens to people in asylums. I believe our minds close themselves enough to only filter through what we are ready to think about. This still might be too much, so we cope with writing, art, and other forms, etc. But in the end, I think life is much easier for the doers who plan and act daily without pondering and procrastinating indefinitely. And yet, I only feel real reward through the intellect - not so much from physical pursuits. And yet, this does not allow you to relate to others that are the opposite. To talk on other people's levels, or about what interests them keeps the ball rolling, but it's annoying when you know that as soon as you talk about something that interests you, they switch off and you're shunned completely. So, so to live physically and materially is far easier, and to relate better, but for me, lacks an understanding of life. This is actually why I really only listen to one band. I think I explained this sufficiently to my wife once recently, so now, maybe she understands, but I don't want to be close-minded, I just often don't like other music, or more to the point, I always get drawn back to mine.

It's interesting - your alias doesn't have a compound number, but is an 8. I must say, it's a very cool name! Does have an otherworldly feel. Love the Vs. Have you calculated your LL alias? It's 25 - Discrimination and Analysis, which I think is fitting for your "character" here.

All the best,
Dean.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 10765
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted April 01, 2009 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message

The asylums of today are filled
with the saints of yesterday.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 10765
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted April 01, 2009 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
I'm in a hurry, atm.

I'll respond more thoroughly later.
I have the prefect quote, but must find it
and take the time to copy it all out.
Its from the Letters of Abelard and Heloise.

This is an interesting read, too:

Saints and Madmen
Psychology Opens It's Doors To Religion

http://www.amazon.com/Saints-Madmen-Psychiatry-Opens-Religion/dp/0805059024

The asylums of today are filled with the saints of yesterday. ~ Valus

______________________________________________________


Psychiatry, once famously opposed to religion, has done an about-face. Like the legendary explorers of a century ago, some psychiatrists have set off into what they see as the last frontier: the spiritual self. In this moving and impeccably researched narrative, Russell Shorto tells remarkable stories of people suffering from what once were deemed spiritual afflictions, then came to be seen as purely medical disorders, and now are being treated as both.

In the process, Shorto brings to bear issues from the cutting edge of consciousness studies. He explores the shared territory of psychosis and mysticism; the changing meaning of "self," "soul," "mind," and "brain"; the theory that psychotropic drugs have a spiritual dimension; the meaning of religious terrorism; and the possibility that addiction and depression are spiritual conditions.

In weaving his case studies into a single story, Shorto delivers a concise update on the science of the mind and the newest efforts to probe the deepest meaning of human existence.

Praise
"Russell Shorto's engaging book is a valuable contribution to the development of...a scientific paradigm for the study of spirituality and mental illness."--Common Boundary

"[A] cogent, absorbing book.... A vivid account of psychiatry's recent interest in 'nonrational' cognitive experience."--Kirkus Reviews

About the Author
Russell Shorto is the author of Gospel Truth: The New Image of Jesus Emerging from Science and History. He has written for GQ, The New Yorker, The Miami Herald, Travel & Leisure, and The New York Times Magazine. He lives in Putnam Valley, New York, with his wife and their two daughters.

http://us.macmillan.com/saintsandmadmen

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