posted February 02, 2009 04:00 AM         

Let us suppose, -- that is, if we are willing to suppose something so contrary to all that we have been born and bred to uphold, -- that all of us gathered here in the lowly realm of the material plane have found our way here precisely because we have misunderstood the intentions of Spirit. The assumption is that we have come to carry Spirit into manifestation, in the hopes of "raising up the world", and establishing the kingdom of God, or whatever else you want to call it, within the solid frame of matter. But what if just the opposite is true? What if Spirit is something which can never be fashioned, once and for all, into any form? What if the nature of Spirit, which is free and without limitations, is inherently opposed to the nature of matter, which is to limit and bind? What if our work has more to do with opening our hearts and minds to a wealth of inexhaustible possibilities, and liberating ourselves from matter, not by the creation and maintanence of orderly civilizations, utopian or otherwise, or orderly personalities, enlightened or otherwise, but, by the erosion of everything down to its lightest and most ethereal parts?

Some insight into what is being suggested here may be gleaned from a contemplation of the last sign in the astrological zodiac: the sign of Pisces. This is the sign which astrologers admit to calling the most evolved and complex of the twelve zodiac signs, and, yet, so little effort is made to promote the Piscean agenda over the agendas of the previous signs. Perhaps this is due, in part, to the fact that Pisceans themselves, in accordance with their deepest nature, want nothing to do with promoting agendas. In any case, it has happened in astrology, as in most, if not all, quarters of the world, that the supreme distinction appears to go to the sign of Capricorn (or to the themes associated with this sign), with the other signs assuming a more or less relative importance. The themes denoted by the sign of Pisces, however, when they are not being ignored or forgotten altogether, tend to receive more than their fair share of scorn, derision, and invalidation. Even when Pisces is praised, it would appear that she "is praised and left in the cold".

Now, Capricorn is the sign of manifestation; the last of the earth signs, and the highest point in the zodiac, resting as it does on the Midheaven, or zenith point, of the natural horoscope. But the chart is circular, and before culminating, must take a backward plunge, as it were, into the last two signs; Aquarius and Pisces. These are the two signs which have received the least respect, and, yet, it is they which grant access to the purest wisdom of the ages. Whosoever wishes to may find information on Aquarius easily enough, so, without pausing to discuss this sign, let us resume without interruption our meditation on the culminating sign of Pisces. The theme of this last sign is about as far removed from manifestation as one can get; the theme is errosion and disintigration; the dissolving of existing structures, thoughts, emotions, identities, -- in short, everything. Pisces is the sign of imagination and faith. In the language of the other signs, this means using the imagination to envision something with the purpose of bringing it into manifestation, and having the faith to see it through. This is the usual backtrack to Capricorn, and has nothing to do with Pisces in its purest expression. The faith of Pisces is faith in God, -- and not just God, but, the God beyond God; it is faith in nothingness; it is pure faith. The imagination of Pisces is that ability to percieve possibilities beyond the veil, ultimately undermining any attempt to veil the unbounded nature of Spirit behind the limits of matter. Furthermore, since Pisces is a "mutable" sign, it is not content to arrive at any alternative possibility, but, in accordance with the flexibility of mutable signs, passes through. This has nothing whatsoever to do with manifestation or with the Capricorn agenda of "putting Pisces to work". It is the very nature of manifestation to limit and confine, as opposed to the limitless and unbounded nature of faith and imagination. How can these limits ultimately reflect the highest aims and concerns of the Spirit?

O wretched state!
O bosom black as death!
O limed soul, that,
struggling to be free,
Art more engaged!
Help, angels! Make assay!
Bow, stubborn knees;
and, heart with strings of steel,
Be soft as sinews of the newborn babe!
All may be well.

posted February 02, 2009 03:54 PM         

Note to Readers:

This does not necessarily reflect my personal philosophy..
like most of my recent ideas, it is an exploration..
a willingness to imagine something beyond the pale.
The unequivocal statements are there to assist in seeing thru this perspective,
but, still, they must be interpreted with the rosetta stone; a grain of salt.

posted February 02, 2009 06:55 PM         

Pisces does not, and is not.

I'm not talking about Pisceans, AG.

I'm talking about Pisces.

posted February 02, 2009 07:15 PM         

In the spirit of friendly debate I will respond with what I think on the matter.
Between you and me, I am a capricorn and am comfortable with the idea of putting pisces to work.

quote:

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What if Spirit is something which can never be fashioned, once and for all, into any form? What if the nature of Spirit, which is free and without limitations, is inherently opposed to the nature of matter, which is to limit and bind?

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First, I think it is the nature of the spirit not to oppose the nature of matter but to use it. The 1st house is the 2nd from the 12th, and a key phrase for 2nd is "I build"

quote:

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The theme of this last sign is about as far removed from manifestation as one can get; the theme is errosion and disintigration; the dissolving of existing structures, thoughts, emotions, identities, -- in short, everything.

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So, based on that the 1st is the 2nd of 12th, I think the pisces theme is as close to manifestation as you can get. Another key idea of the 2nd is "I have", you would have no reality without the spirit. Reality is the result of the spirit. Each sign builds upon the previous, the 1st, even though it is the first is not an exception to this rule.

quote:

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Aquarius and Pisces. These are the two signs which have received the least respect, and, yet, it is they which grant access to the purest wisdom of the ages.

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Well, I think what happens here is that these signs often start at the end. Meaning that many people with these signs prominant will often try to "break down" (the establishment for aquarius, and the self for pisces) without ever having built anything to begin with. That is what the lower forms of these signs tend to do, and I think we see these forms more often (the alcholic, the druggie, the rebel )than the higher forms.

I think it is the process that is important, without a physical manifestation there is nothing to release. Of what significance is losing the ego if there never an ego to begin with. What is learned then?
I think the universe ultimely seeks to balance itself. And "nothingness" seeks to become. And what is seeks to lose itself.
Like yin and yang you can't have one without the other.

posted February 02, 2009 08:40 PM         

quote:

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What If Everything You Think You Know About Spirituality Is WRONG?

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This is the question I ask myself most often. And ones similar to it.

posted February 02, 2009 08:46 PM         

quote:

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Aquarius and Pisces. These are the two signs which have received the least respect, and, yet, it is they which grant access to the purest wisdom of the ages.

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posted February 02, 2009 09:07 PM         

Read the rest and you may understand my meaning.

Although it could just be a case of "the grass is always greener",
it seems to me that the earth signs will always find a ready place in society.

Aquarians have to carve it out for themselves, being misunderstood all the while,
and Pisceans have to endure it, being desperate to transcend it at every turn.

The "cool" signs (Aqua, Scorp, Pisces) are not called the three most misunderstood signs for nothing.

What makes them marketable in the larger community is, generally, a strong does of earth in the chart.

The more extreme types tend to be reclusive, lonely, and, very frequently, homeless.

While Taurus may be reclusive, it is very much by choice,
and while Cap may be lonely, he is much lauded and rewarded by the public.
Neither of these signs is very likely to be homeless.
Nor do I see them being misunderstood as much as the other signs.
Sure, people take their stability for granted,
and dont always realize all that they suffer and endure,
but pretty much everything they have to say is understood;
though they may begrudge the need to communicate it.

Also, what I am primarily concerned with is not the qualities that make you popular at social gatherings,
but, the qualities which allow you to be embraced, and rewarded with a position, in the wider world.

At least, thats how it appears from here.

posted February 02, 2009 11:07 PM         

quote:

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In the spirit of friendly debate I will respond with what I think on the matter.

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Thank you. I very much appreciate your willingness to dialogue.

quote:

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Between you and me, I am a capricorn and am comfortable with the idea of putting pisces to work.

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lol

I'm afraid its my job to make you uncomfortable.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

quote:

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First, I think it is the nature of the spirit not to oppose the nature of matter but to use it. The 1st house is the 2nd from the 12th, and a key phrase for 2nd is "I build"

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Interesting.

But, what if the occult (12th house) significance of this,
would be to balance the principles of the 2nd house with the 8th house,
and "make use" of matter by obliterating it with penetrating insight?

You could object that the 6th house is the 7th from the 12th,
and balance ought therefore to come through practical service.
But if the 7th house is the 8th from the 12th, then what?
Then balance appears to come in the form of piercing the veil.

There's nothing simple about the 12th house.
And these are the themes we should keep foremost in mind,
when interpreting the 12th house's relation to the other houses.

quote:

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So, based on that the 1st is the 2nd of 12th, I think the pisces theme is as close to manifestation as you can get. Another key idea of the 2nd is "I have", you would have no reality without the spirit. Reality is the result of the spirit. Each sign builds upon the previous, the 1st, even though it is the first is not an exception to this rule.

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Very insightful. But I think we can go further.

Following this premise to its conclusion,
since the theme of the 12th is sacrifice,
then the possession of matter is to be renounced.
From the standpoint of Spirit,
to "work with" or "make use" of matter,
is, precisely, NOT to make use of it.

quote:

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Well, I think what happens here is that these signs often start at the end. Meaning that many people with these signs prominant will often try to "break down" (the establishment for aquarius, and the self for pisces) without ever having built anything to begin with. That is what the lower forms of these signs tend to do, and I think we see these forms more often (the alcholic, the druggie, the rebel )than the higher forms.

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You are thinking like a true Capricorn.

But, if we are in the vacinity of the last two signs,
it must be assumed that something has been built up,
and that the ultimate result of that was a need to break down.

Just because people dont break down in ways that you see as orderly,
does not mean they aren't taking the necessary steps to complete
the present cycle of experience.

We are thinking outside the box here. Oh, yes.

The building of the ego takes place in the first six houses.
By the time we reach the 12th, the ego has been dissolving for a long time.

quote:

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I think it is the process that is important, without a physical manifestation there is nothing to release. Of what significance is losing the ego if there never an ego to begin with. What is learned then?

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It sounds to me that you expect enlightenment to happen all at once.
The process is important, but, the dissolution, on whatever level it occurs,
makes room for the next cycle to begin, on whatever level it occurs.

There is no zeal like the zeal of the convert,
and every ex-addict is a posterboy for sobriety.

Do you begin to see the larger picture here?

quote:

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I think the universe ultimely seeks to balance itself. And "nothingness" seeks to become. And what is seeks to lose itself.
Like yin and yang you can't have one without the other.

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But this is precisely what I am saying.
Your words do not seem incompatible with my vision.
The difference is I find balance in transcendance;
not transcendance in balance;
that is, I begin with the transcendance,
and the balance accomplishes itself.

When the duality is deeply understood, it ceases to be a duality,
but, not only this -- it ceases to exist!
Matter is only the appearance of duality.

Matter is energy vibrating at a slower rate...
It exists because our inclination has been to slow down;
we have endeavored to discriminate between opposites,
in an attempt to "make sense" of everything.

But there is the possibility of absolute transcendance.

To quote astrologer Stephen Arroyo:

"Both the eighth and the twelfth houses are related to occult and metaphysical studies and practices, suffering at a deep level as a prelude to some sort of rebirth, and an immediate awareness of the realities of psychic and spiritual dimensions of life. The primary difference between the eighth and twelfth houses is that, whereas eighth house planets have to be confronted immediately and worked through, twelfth house planets can often be transcended. In the first case, one brings to the surface the old tendencies in order to transform them through immediate and intensive involvement, whereas in the latter case, one rises above the problems entirely."

I'm going to try to say this:

God is Three:

Conscious Self, Unconscious Self, and Integrated Self.

The Unconscious Self of God is fragmented into egos.
We who are in the world are unconscious of God
because the World is the unconscious of God;
the world is manifested in God's unconscious!

But the World, made conscious, is integrated Spirit.

We who are in the world are the dim thoughts of God,
as He peers into His own unconscious mind.
God must take these forms and play these parts,
in order to complete the journey to His own Self-Realization.

If we get lost in matter, we forget the ultimate concerns of God.

As rays of the light of God's consciousness,
reflecting on the surface of the waters of God's unconscious mind,
we have a choice to sink into the dark, cold depths of those waters,
or, to skip off the surface, and twinkle in the eye of God as pure insight.

quote:

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But I am capricorn, can pisces hear my whip crack?

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Yes. Pisces can easily hear Capricorn. But can Capricorn hear Pisces?

My love to you,
please forgive me, once more,
for my cruel loss of temper that day.
I was mistaken about you and about everything.
Please except my humblest apologies.

posted February 03, 2009 04:02 AM         

It would transcend the zodiac (the "cross of matter") and the earthly cycle of karmic recurrence altogether.

Any attempt to refer to the other signs in order to contradict or understand Pisces would ultimately be an attempt at reincarnation; doomed to repeat history.

posted February 03, 2009 04:29 PM         

quote:

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Although it could just be a case of "the grass is always greener",
it seems to me that the earth signs will always find a ready place in society.

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Definitely disagree. I think both Pisces and Aquarians would find their place more readily than I would.

quote:

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Aquarians have to carve it out for themselves, being misunderstood all the while,

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I think most signs would relate to this. Each has its own struggle.

Aquarians at the very least have their magical powers of friendship to help them establish their place.

quote:

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What makes them marketable in the larger community is, generally, a strong does of earth in the chart.

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I don't know if that's true, especially concerning Pisces.

quote:

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The more extreme types tend to be reclusive, lonely, and, very frequently, homeless.

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The more extremely Piscean or Aquarian? I would think extremism of some sort would come from additional factors in the chart that are stressful. I wouldn't presume that a strong dose of those energies on their own would damn them to any fate.

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