Author
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Topic: loose brain to mouth connection
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SunChild Moderator Posts: 4460 From: Australia Registered: Jan 2004
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posted March 24, 2009 12:00 AM
Sounds weird I know. The connection from my thoughts to my ability to communicate verbally is absolutely crap. Ask me a hard question or a personal question, the thoughts do not translate into easily accessible language I can use to communicate. I've had this problem all my life. People used to think I was shy- it was not that, I had no ability to communicate verbally. It feels retarded. That's why I enjoy writing. Especially journals, my mind connection to my finger tips are far more advanced than my ability to speak up unless I am suddenly inspired with a lecture during anger, irritation or passion. My throat chakra feels blocked, like there is some restriction. I once thought of taking singing lessons to help open this up and create new neuro-pathways. Has anyone experienced this? You can feel it, you know it, and it truly can be quite restrictive. IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees Knowflake Posts: 6024 From: UK Registered: Jul 2005
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posted March 24, 2009 12:18 AM
I can relate to this!!IP: Logged |
26taurus Knowflake Posts: 15988 From: * Registered: Jun 2004
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posted March 24, 2009 02:37 AM
You explained it perfectly. Or shall I say: I feel you. And it can be extremely frustrating at times. IP: Logged |
26taurus Knowflake Posts: 15988 From: * Registered: Jun 2004
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posted March 24, 2009 03:07 AM
I enjoy spending my time with others who are of this ilk too. Those wordy Cerebrals bug me out. Never shutting the hell up or at a loss for words. It's like theyre hogging them. Taken ours away. IP: Logged |
Quinnie Knowflake Posts: 1639 From: on a chair beside a window Registered: Jul 2002
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posted March 24, 2009 08:33 AM
Sunchild where is your Neptune? What's in your 3rd house of communication? or second house (throat)?IP: Logged |
Glaucus Knowflake Posts: 3327 From: Sacramento,California,USA Registered: Jul 2006
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posted March 24, 2009 11:40 AM
I can totally relate!page 47 to 49 from A SOLUTION TO THE RIDDLE OF DYSLEXIA(The DISCOVERY OF CEREBELLAR-VESTIBULAR SYNDROMES by Harold N. Levinson, MD Occasionally, dyslexics manifested a "loose" and telescopic quality to their associative speech or thinking styles, and as a result tended to be rapid,wordy, and rambling in their spontaneous descriptions. This interesting speech pattern appeared independent of anxiety factors, and tended to resemble a schizophrenic's "loose associations" and tangential thinking. However, these dyslexic children were not psychotic, and lacked autistic preoccupation and projective thinking mechanisms. They merely seemed to forget momentarily the direction of their thought sequences and/or the thoughts and words themselves. Occasionally, the temporal spacing between words and sentences was shorter than normal and even dysmetric. Later studies noted nonpsychotic "absentminded" adult dyslexics to manifest similar loose,wordy, and rambling speech patterns ---- clearly demonstrating the need to qualitatively and diagnostically distinguish dyslexic speech patterns from schizophrenic patterns (Kasaninin, 1964). Upon analysis, this loose, absent-minded dyslexic thinking style prone to slips was found to be due to the very same underlying memory, directional, and temporal spatial dyscoordination mechanisms characterizing dyslexic reading, writing, and spelling. Not infrequently these so-called absent-minded individuals intend to do say or do one thing and wind up saying or doing another, even the opposite of what was originally intended. Forgetting is commonplace. As a result, the dyslexic's speech and action patterns may often exhibit a disoriented and disjointed, even comical, quality, which many clinicians fallaciously consider due to primary psychogenic determinants. However, upon analysis, the dyscoordination or slip between intention and speech or motor response was most often found lacking a primary emotional causation, and appeared qualitatively consistent with the dyslexic symptomatology. In retrospect, these slips invariably provoked secondary emotional attempts at compensation; and the unsuspecting psychiatrist and psychologist will unwittingly mistake secondary defensive reaction with primary causation. For example, some dyslexics become embarrassed, blush, and retreat socially as a result of their slips, while others attempt to joke and rationalize them away. Paradoxically, some dyslexics were found to demonstrate highly organized, crystal-clear thinking and expressive styles. Upon analysis, many of these individuals were found to have had subtle and compensated speech impediments during their early childhood. In retrospect, their highly condensed speech patterns appeared to be defensive or adaptive attempts at minimizing speech output and thinking errors. Although these dyslexics were often incapable of spontaneous free-associative and reflective speech, they were more than capable of performing these same very same functions in silence. For example, when asked to freely think aloud about a question, they could not or would not. But they could, and would,invariably produce the answer after a silent pause----clearly demonstrating their highly developed, silent associative and reflective thinking capacities. Following recognition and resolution of their guarded or defensive speech mechanisms, many learned to think aloud and to express themselves without being embarrassed or fear of criticism. Later adult stories not only confirmed these observations but revealed the existence of dyslexics who were capable of free association and reflection only when writing. Their fluent and lucid writing styles appeared to be motivated similarly by dyslexic verbalization difficulties which were compensated for by gifted and/or unhampered writing functions. Because the ability to free-associate is a cardinal and essential prerequisite for candidates being evaluated for psychoanalytic therapy, and since this ability may be nonverbally present, it behooves psychiatrists and psychoanalysts to explore seriously these clinical considerations in their diagnostic-treatment assessment of psychoanalytic patients. The first part are my problems. That's why I was misdiagnosed as having schizoaffective bipolar by psychiatrists years ago in adulthood,and they never did any medical testing. They only went by what they observed. Luckily, Dr Levinson understood that my speech and thoughts weren't psychotic but Dyslexic,Dyspraxic. I saw Dr Levinson in June of 2005. He is the psychiatrist/neurologist who diagnosed me as having cerebellar vestibular dysfunction and recognized my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia which was confirmed by Veteran Affairs neurologists in 2006. He didn't diagnose me with any mental illness. He thought my problems were neurological,and so did the Veteran Affair neurologists. That's why neurological and psychological testing should be mandatory to differentiate neurodivergent conditions from psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia,bipolar. That's what I stress as a neurodiversity advocate to help prevent the misdiagnosing of neurodivergents. I don't want them to go through what I went through. I consider my psychiatric misdiagnosis experiences as part of my path as a neurodiversity advocate. The second part is me too....mainly compensatory thinking,speech mechanisms. Are you primarily a visual,picture thinker by any chance? I definitely am. I think in pictures,visualize things in my mind's eye nonstop. People that are primarily visual,picture thinkers can have problems with speech because of their nonlinear thinking processes. Psychiatrists really need to understand to avoid diagnosing them as having psychotic disorders. They tend to mistake nonlinear thinking for psychiatric disorders. another thing to know is that visual,picture thinking is much faster than verbal,word thinking even though it can be mistakened for being slow because of delays/problems with verbal,word processing. Dr. Harold N. Levinson and Ronald D. Davis seemed to agree on some things about neurodivergent conditions. They both believe that neurodivergent conditions have highly significant overlapping symptoms and comorbid. That's why Dr Levinson refers to the whole neurodivergence as Dyslexic Syndrome, and Ronald D. Davis believes that root of neurodivergent conditions is Dyslexia which he views as a perceptual talent. That's why his first book was called GIFT OF DYSLEXIA. They both believe that the neurodivergent conditions and disorientation/confusion are strongly connected. The only difference is that Dr. Levinson believes that it stems from cerebellar vestibular dysfunction,and should be treated with antimotion sickness medication. Ronald D. Davis believes that it stems from being a highly visual,picture thinker, and that it can be resolved with mind's eye focus therapy. I believe in Ronald D. Davis' theory because of my own highly visual,picture thinking. Those are the main things that I want to raise awareness as a neurodiversity advocate. http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=a lbum03&id=A_Solution_to_the_Riddle_of_Dyslexia_gif http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumNa me=album03&id=A_Solution_to_the_Riddle_of_Dyslexia_001_gif looking at my chart says it all......Neptune in 3rd house, Neptune oppose retrograde Saturn in Gemini,Mercury parallel Neptune, 3rd house ruler Pluto sextile Neptune, 3rd house ruler(Mars as traditional ruler of Scorpio) square Neptune. The cosmobiologists,uranian astrologers would notice. Mercury conjunct Sun/Neptune midpoint,Mars square Mercury/Neptune midpoint,and Neptune semisquare Mercury/Ascendant midpoint so I have strong indicators for nonlinear,visual,picture thinking and strong visualization abilities as well as confusion,distortion with language....all those things with the strengths,weakness of my neurodivergence of Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADD. My compensatory style indicators....retrograde Saturn in Gemini in 9th, Saturn opposing planets(Jupiter,Neptune) in 3rd house,Mercury contraparallel Saturn. cosmobiologists,uranian astrologers would notice my Mars oppose Mercury/Saturn midpoint Raymond
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katatonic Knowflake Posts: 1249 From: ca, usa Registered: Jan 2008
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posted March 24, 2009 02:06 PM
i have moon opp merc so i can relate. and chiron sq both in the 10th house. writing IS a great outlet, do you play music too? or paint? i find massage, or anything that engages my hands, helps me speak more effectively too.IP: Logged |
26taurus Knowflake Posts: 15988 From: * Registered: Jun 2004
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posted March 24, 2009 02:15 PM
Merc conjunct Chiron here and in the 3rd house. In Taurus too - not typically a very verbal, talkative sign. Vocal, yes. Singing is one of my favorite things to do. Interesting info Glaucus. IP: Logged |
sunshine_lion Knowflake Posts: 1916 From: ann arbor mi Registered: Apr 2008
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posted March 24, 2009 02:32 PM
that hapens to me too. the thought is clear, but the words arent there. and to try to just fumble through is not giving the thought pattern justice, becasue it wont be communicated clearly. i really hate it when that happens.IP: Logged |
Glaucus Knowflake Posts: 3327 From: Sacramento,California,USA Registered: Jul 2006
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posted March 24, 2009 02:47 PM
There is also a speech that is called cluttering. It has to do with rapid speech. One of the symptoms of mania is rapid speech. However,rapid speech can exist without mania, and it's referred to as cluttering and can be a symptom of Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD. Cluttering can exist without Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD. Here is something from American Speech Language Hearing Association. CLUTTERING UPDATED Our research has advanced the following working definition: "Cluttering is a syndrome characterized by a speech delivery rate which is either abnormally fast, irregular, or both. In cluttered speech, the person’s speech is affected by one or more of the following: (1) failure to maintain normally expected sound, syllable, phrase, and pausing patterns; (2) evidence of greater than expected incidents of disfluency, the majority of which are unlike those typical of people who stutter." An example of cluttered speech can be seen in the sidebar at the center of p. 5. This definition expands previous definitions that focused only on two components: an excessively rapid and/or irregular speaking rate, and disfluencies that are frequent but are not judged to be stuttering. Like all working definitions, this one must change as new data are gathered. Admittedly, the definition is not wholly satisfactory, partly because it is based on listener judgment. One especially frustrating problem is that people with the disorder frequently do not clutter, for example, when they speak in a short screening evaluation. In such cases, they either are not diagnosed or one must rely on subjective reports, by the client or others, that cluttering does indeed exist. Another vexing issue is the extent to which language planning and pragmatic problems are implicated in the diagnosis of cluttering. We do not currently include language difficulties in the definition because there appear to be at least a few clutterers for whom language problems are not evident. A third confusing issue is that cluttering often—but not always—coexists with stuttering, although the two are now regarded as distinct fluency disorders by most authorities. Moreover, cluttering is often noticed before the stuttering takes over during development of the disorders and after stuttering is treated successfully, but not while a person manifests significant stuttering. Further adding to this confusion, even in relatively rare cases of "pure cluttering," is that most clutterers or their families refer to their problems as "stuttering." Regardless, we are currently convinced that rate problems are somehow central to cluttering. There is the near universal impression that clutterers try to talk too fast, so fast that their speech intermittently breaks down. This explains the common clinical impression that most cluttering disfluencies result from placing excessive demands on the output capabilities of the speaker’s linguistic and other systems. Clutterers also tend to slur or omit syllables of longer words, which compromise intelligibility during spurts of rapid speech. Many other symptoms have been reported in people who clutter. These optional symptoms include: lack of awareness of the problem; family history of fluency disorders; poor handwriting; confusing, disorganized language or conversational skills; temporary improvement when asked to "slow down" or "pay attention" to speech; misarticulations; poor intelligibility; social or vocational problems; distractibility; hyperactivity; auditory perceptual difficulties; learning disabilities; and apraxia. http://www.asha.org/about/publications/leader-online/archives/2003/q4/f031118a.htm Cluttering is another problem that makes speech difficult to understand. Like stuttering, cluttering affects the fluency, or flow, of someone's speech. However, the difference is that cluttering is a language disorder, while stuttering is a speech disorder. People who stutter have trouble getting out what they want to say, and those who clutter says what they're thinking, but it becomes disorganized while they're speaking. Because of this disorganization, someone who clutters may speak in bursts or pause in unexpected places. The rhythm of cluttered speech may sound jerky, rather than smooth, and the speaker is often unaware of the problem. http://kidshealth.org/PageManager.jsp?dn=studenthealthzone&lic=180&cat _id=20357&article_set=35152&ps=604
Raymond
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Glaucus Knowflake Posts: 3327 From: Sacramento,California,USA Registered: Jul 2006
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posted March 24, 2009 03:51 PM
Katatonic,That's interesting that you said that about Chiron. It makes me wonder if Chiron in hard aspect to Mercury can indicate problems with speech, maybe the other centaurs like Pholus,Nessus,and Chariklo too. I strongly suspect the kuiper belt objects could too. My Chiron squares my Moon/Mercury midpoint with 15 minutes of arc. Both centaur group and kuiper belt group are nonconformists any way because they have highly eccentric orbits compared to the other planets including Uranus which astrologers say is the planet associated with being unusual,eccentric,unconventional. This can easily said for the kuiper belt objects and centaurs. My Mercury is aspected by quite a few kuiper belt objects. 3 degree orb for big kuiper belt objects (especially dwarf planets 1 degree orb for small kuiper belt objects.
Mercury square dwarf planet, Makemake in Leo - 2'01 Mercury square small KBO,Rhadamthus in Leo - '48 Mercury oppose small KBO,Ceto in Taurus R - '37 (T-SQUARE) My Mercury,Saturn,Sedna,Uranus are in 11th Harmonic Isosceles trapezoid (all aspects within 30 minutes of arc) with corresponding midpoint pictures of Mercury oppose Saturn/Sedna mp and Sedna oppose Mercury/Uranus mp as well as Mercury/Sedna mp conjunct Saturn/Uranus mp Astronomers discovered a big KBO slightly smaller than Sedna. It doesn't have a name yet. It's known as 2007 OR10,and it is nicknamed Cinderella. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_OR10
no minor planet number has been assigned to it yet because its orbit hasn't been clearly defined. Once an object is assigned a minoar planet number, then it is ready to be given a name. I have Mercury square 2007 OR10 in Leo within 2 degree orb, and so another KBO in hard aspect to my Mercury. If you want to know your 2007 OR10, You can calculate it here http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi
Raymond
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sunshine_lion Knowflake Posts: 1916 From: ann arbor mi Registered: Apr 2008
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posted March 24, 2009 04:28 PM
raymond, i think mine is the opposite of cluttering, i speak slowly or not at all because i can not find the right words to express my thoughts clearly. i have a pretty good grasp of words, but sometimes, i just can't for the life of me find the ones i am looking for. people don't always understand when you tell them you have to think awhile before you answer about something becasue the right words aren't there. like, i can't talk about this right now, becasue i can't find the words that corrospond with my thoughts andphrase it so you will understand what i am saying. they look at you like WTF?IP: Logged |
Glaucus Knowflake Posts: 3327 From: Sacramento,California,USA Registered: Jul 2006
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posted March 24, 2009 05:07 PM
sunshine,Interesting. I have the same issue along with cluttering. It's a word retrieval problem. Some call it Dysnomia,and it can be connected to Dyslexia. The stuff that I posted about the speech from Dr. Levinson's book included word retrieval issus. I know that my word retrieval issues are connected to my Dyslexia. I know that my language processing issues are related to the way that I think in pictures. The Veteran Affairs neuropsychologist,who tested me in 2006, wrote in my neuropsychological report " persons with strong visual skills who lack comparable verbal facility can often be frustrated because they have difficulty communicating their ideas in a highly verbal society". Dysnomia can exist without Dyslexia too. Dysnomia can be a symptom of alcohol intoxication, low blood sugar, concussion, fluid/electrolyte imbalance, nutritional deficiencies, hyperthermia, hypothermia, hypoxemia, and other conditions and illnesses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysnomia_(disorder) http://wordfinding.com/whomayhave.html
I compensate by thinking my words very carefully before I communicate in words whether it's spoken or written language as well as even visualize in my mind's eye my speaking,writing,typing the words. I visualize everything before and while I am do it. It's something that's automatic for me to do. It's my main compensatory coordination mechanism.
fish oil,cod liver oil might help with the problems. I take cod liver oil for my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD since reading about Omega 3 fatty acids,DHA is important for brain functioning and that deficiencies have been connected to Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD. I read about it in the book,LCP Solution and research articles.
Raymond
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SunChild Moderator Posts: 4460 From: Australia Registered: Jan 2004
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posted March 25, 2009 01:48 AM
Wow lots of info, thanks Raymond. I'll get through it soon. Sounds like good reading. Glad I'm not the only oddball. IP: Logged | |