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Author Topic:   Karmically speaking....Law Breakers
hippichick
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posted August 14, 2010 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
I have always thought that law breakers will make their own mess, where karma is concerned.

What do yo all think? Should one turn in someone who is known to break the law, or let the universe take care of her self...

O, and I have changed my beliefs on this one.

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puppet04
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posted August 14, 2010 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for puppet04     Edit/Delete Message
depends on law they are breaking..

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hippichick
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posted August 14, 2010 02:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
providing minors with alcohol and, a different individual fraud

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hippichick
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posted August 14, 2010 02:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
dbl post

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puppet04
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From: usa
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posted August 14, 2010 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for puppet04     Edit/Delete Message
oh then def yes

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GypseeWind
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Posts: 3835
From: Dayton,Ohio USA
Registered: May 2009

posted August 14, 2010 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GypseeWind     Edit/Delete Message
That is a toughie..

Growing up Italian we have it drilled into our heads, that you NEVER snitch, they used to tell us that snitches were low, and could end up swimming with cement shoes on.

Course now that I've left that Soprano life for a different one...
It depends..

I have a co-worker who gives drinks away, or charges the wrong (lower) price for things, etc. etc.
I haven't and will not say anything, because that kind of stuff is something that usually takes care of itself.

I would turn in any child abuser in a heart beat though... Someone has to speak for them... Same thing if I knew someone who abused their pet.

The minor thing, IDK, depends on the situation.
In my state you are allowed to take your minor child into a bar, and serve them, as long as you purchase the drink, and sit right there with them. Obviously we aren't talking LITTLE kids here..
So, depends on whose kid it is, and if their parents know they drink,.. etc.. lotsa variables there. But that's just me.

The fraud... unless the fraud was comitted on a helpless person, like a child, elderly, handicap, etc.. I would probably not, I would let that person get what they deserve on their own.

Only reason I say this is because, really, you cannot predict with 100 percent accuracy what another will do.

For ex. A girl at work was let go, quite unjustly I might add, but let go none the less. So, within the next few days, we had the liquor board in the bar, going through everything with a fine tooth comb, saying they had an anonymous call that we do this and that, blah blah blah.

We have two guns in there. The owner was robbed at gunpoint and pistol whipped in Jan, so, obviously she's a little paranoid. It's not loaded, and the bullets are taped to certain spots on the wall, which only the employees know about, so the girl made it pretty obvious that she did the calling.
Turns out the owner didn't have a license to carry a concealed weapon and he is on probation for unrelated incidents.. (The ownerS are a married couple, that is why I am switching between the word HE and SHE).

He told me if he goes down because she called the liquor board she won't see her next birthday. And since he is in a big biker club, he can make it happen.

See what I mean.? Depends on the situation. Somethings aren't worth risking your life over.

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cpn_edgar_winner
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posted August 16, 2010 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpn_edgar_winner     Edit/Delete Message
minors drinking is more of a cultural thing. many italians let thier children sip red wine with meals, Germany and Japan don't even have a legal drinking age, i don't think. The morality of this one seems like a minor infraction to me. Just because I know people who abuse children in a very real physical way largely go unpunished as it is greatly under reported.

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Valus
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posted August 16, 2010 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

It depends on the danger they pose to self and others, and, also, the possible effects incarceration may have. Lately, I've been talking with Saturn, and thinking that there is, perhaps, more justice in the world than I've previously supposed. I mean, that we bring a great deal of suffering upon ourselves, as well as good things. It no longer strikes me as particularly tragic that one must make efforts to discipline oneself, if one is to be entitled to distinction, fulfillment, or self-congratulation. However, the nature and -- how shall I put it -- the "jurisdiction" of personal responsibility is still a complex matter, as I see it.

I do not believe in punishment for punishment's sake, or for "getting even". To me, that is a childish notion. Nor do I believe in reward for the sake of reward. As it is written, "The righteous have their reward." To reward someone for being good is almost to insult them. It is almost to suggest that their motive is something other than being good -- and, worse, it is to provide a motive for being good other than the pure desire to do, or be, good. Goodness is it's own reward, and rewarding a good person is a little bit like giving money to a person for having become rich. Conversely, depravity is it's own punishment. Shall we incarcerate someone for being in prison -- whether or not it is a prison of their own creation? It makes no sense.

Having said that.. I do believe that, sometimes, stiff repercussions can actually be a blessing. Prison, while hardening and corrupting some individuals, has also been known to benefit some others. It can give them time to cool down, to reflect, to take responsibility, etc. Incidentally, the same may be said of poverty. The person who has unlimited funds and liberty may be at the mercy of their desires. There is nothing to stop them from putting their lower will into action. While the poor person is often inhibited from damning him/herself; compelled to stay on the narrow path, compelled to discipline the self, etc.

The chief thing to consider, I think, when it comes to turning someone in, is the amount of harm (or good) that may result from their continued liberty, versus the harm (or good) which is likely to result from their being deprived of it. Every case is unique. Only you know the particulars. So, really, we can only speak in general terms. We cannot answer this question for you, but we can suggest ways to answer it for yourself.

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Nephthys
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From: California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 16, 2010 02:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nephthys     Edit/Delete Message
Going back and forth on how I would answer this, and after pondering, I feel that what works for me is to not even associate with someone that puts me in a position to feel so uncomfortable that I have to question my values and morals to be around them.

So I wouldn't even associate with the person at all.

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hippichick
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posted August 17, 2010 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you all for your replies!

In both cases, I have waited years, thinking these two individuals would bring themselves down. The individual who is buying alcohol for the 18 yr olds is a psycho who I have avoided for years, but when he got my 18 year old drunk enough to where she almost died from alcohol poisoning, I had it, not to mention the other things he supplies these young girls. He has also been sexually inappropriate with these young women AND I recently found out with my eldest a few years ago.

The other individual, again, has been abusing the system for 7 years, approximately. Everytime I look at my pay stub I think of these individuals that abuse the system and how we are paying for it, not to mention why hospitilization and insurance are so costly because individuals like these. There are people out there that really need help and abusers of the system should atleast be re-evaluated as to their benefits they recieve.

Gypsee, both of these men are spineless freaks and I seriously doubt either of them would retailate on me, the fraud case would be in confdence, the other he knows and I want him to know! I have never "snitched" on anybody for anything, and I sure have had the chance to! And this is Texas and I have the ways and means to protect myself.

CPN, it was not minor, as I explained.

Valus, to be sure both of these individuals have brought suffering on themselves, but the suffering they are creating for others, the frauder to the general public and the supplier to my daughter and other young girls has to stop. I an not getting even, I am trying to stop two individuals, especially the supplier from hurting any others.

Neph, I do not associate with either, however the supplier keeps poking his ugly energy into my life over and over and over again.

~~~

Since I have given this up to God and let the universe do what she will, (for so long) I do wonder if these wonderings of mine are not enough to tell me that it is time for me to do something. Since I do have the knowledge, to set in motion in this 3d world we live in where we are bound to justice and laws, a wake up call for both of them. I just dont want anything negative to come back to me for sending out "negative" energy, albeit for a positive cause.

thank you, blessings

t~~~

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Nephthys
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From: California
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posted August 17, 2010 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nephthys     Edit/Delete Message
T,

Now that you have provided more information, what you have said, I would report him in a heartbeat. No one messes with me or mine.

I pray he stays away from you all

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hippichick
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posted August 18, 2010 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
I got stuck waiting for my daughter on a job interview in a hot little black car yesterday, temps 102 and rising, so I went looking in my trunk for something to read.

I found a Chopra book so I automatically, not by chance, turned to the chapter on Karma.

Dr. Chopra says, when making decisions, (as all our decisions have Karmic implications) consider how the decision makes one feel and if the decision would make you and everybody else happy.

Surely my decision to rat on these individuals will not make them happy, but I have to defer to Utilitarianism, "the greatest good for the greatest number of people..."

I feel my decision was the correct one, I have no regrets and I had no hesitations while acting on my decisions.

Chopra also addresses in this little book "The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success", the three ways to deal with Karma, paying debts, transmuting the Karmic experience into a learning experience or getting into the gap where Karma does not apply, via meditation, getting off the wheel as Lexx puts it in her thread!

Thanks again and blessings!!!

t~~~

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