posted June 28, 2011 03:58 PM            

This post is merely raw material to feed into your minds, allowing you to view conflicting theories and come up with your own truth

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You are absolutely on target when you describe Dee and Kelly as having been "led around by their noses" by the Enochian entities. This was the best "contact" the entities had ever achieved with the human race. They intended to use Dee and Kelly to "set the stage" for their Agenda to be "played out" in the lives of humankind. In order to do that, they promised that whoever would use their language and system of magick would be rewarded beyond their wildest dreams (for Dee and Kelly this meant worldly riches and the increase of the British Empire). For the entities, it meant that THEIR POWER would be used in the world of men. This they wanted more than anything, for it meant (to their way of thinking) that their Agenda would be "brought about" even more quickly.The Agenda of the Enochian entities is to bring about "the End of the World.

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The End of The World…
Considering that ours soul have been evolving in this world, and that at this precise moment the Earth is home to at least some trillions of ( human and non human ) souls, while simultaneously providing the means for the evolution of those souls, I think that it is an appalling lack of respect and manners to even consider bringing about the End of the World.

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I'm not going to get into details about this conversation and a few others that I'd had a few months before; but I will tell you that they believe that they are "imprisoned" in some way (even though they have more "freedom" than we do, since they have greater power and influence over their environment). However, the "situation" they are in now is but a pale reflection of the life they once lived. They have been trying to "break free" from this "situation" long before they first made contact with Dee and Kelly.

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How they plan to accomplish this "Apocalypse" and bring about "the End of the World" is a subject of much debate. Some say that the entities are basically evil and that they plan to corrupt humankind and use their power to "fatally damage" our societies and cultures until God will have no choice but to "step in" and "stop the show."
Others believe that they are basically good (or neutral) and that their plans are to bring about "the End" by upsetting the "balance of nature" through the use of their power, and then God will have to bring everything to a STOP so he can fix the "delicate balance" of nature, thereby "Ending this World" in order for another to be created from the "ruins" of this one.
That's about all I'm going to say at this point. I am certain that their Agenda is to bring about "the End of the World," (which calls into question all those who practice "Apocalypse Working" rituals ) and I do have an opinion as to how they plan to accomplish this (and thus what their "nature" is), but I believe that I'll keep my opinions to myself. Those that are members of the OSDL know me and know where I stand on these things, but we're "family."

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I have a reasonably good memory…and a better yet diary...on another forum before the first hack, while you were still called Hanged Man you mentioned that you expected a mass Ascension for humanity by 2012. Is that what you mean by Ascension of mankind ? Is that what you and those angels are working for ?

Let’s look at it more closely…all of a sudden 6 billion people Ascend, without the purging of soul and character required by the normal process of Ascension.
All of a sudden the Universe would gain a few billion demons more. And that is not the main problem…The energy to do such a thing would have to come from somewhere…probably from the Earth Herself…such a massive drain of the Earth’s energy field would deplete Her and place all other living organisms in grave danger…Once again a singular breach of etiquette and lack of manners, not to mention a form of spiritual fascism…some of us may not want to ascend by 2012.

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First of all, I would like to postulate that the goal of the Great Work is in some ways, to bring about the apocalypse.
No, I do not mean, like on ghost busters, or the popular view of what the apocalypse entails.
Yes, you are correct that the all of our souls are in a constant state of evolution, may I suggest that the enochian angels play an important role in this evolution.
The way I view the apocalpse, it would be impossible for it to occur without all life acheiving a state of enlightenment.
Yes, the apocalypse is the end of the world as we know it, but in my point of view the end of the world, is the slaying of the leviathan, and the reuion with our source....
And isn't this the aim of our spiritual evolution and of the great work?
The biblical result of the apocalypse is a perfect world without sin (view sin as you will) and it is a world filled with perfected people.
Remembering the old axiom- microcosm reflects macrocosm- we should assume that there would also be individual apocalypses, the end of the world of an individual person through which that person achieves enlightenment and union with the divine. However we do better to evolve together.

Therefore, in this perspective, yes the enochian angels do bring about the apocalypse. BUT not in the way you are thinking about it. They bring about the end of the world through the evolution of both individual souls and the collective soul.
Or so is my oppinion.

Also I would imagine that this is not just humanity, but all things which are in a constant state of evolution. According to paracelcus, even the tiniest particles are striving to become gold.. and eventually they all will be. All things must complete their evolution first before a macrocosmic apocalypse can occur.

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I'm a little surprised you took that so literally. I thought people here were spiritually mature enough to understand metaphor, allegory, and mythology, all of which play an integral part of the Western Mystery Tradition. The stories of Christ are best viewed as metaphorical and allegorical, and the apocalyptic scenes in Revelation are best scene as a story that hints at deeper things. I'd also like to point out at this stage that the word Apocalypse literally translates as Revelation. Does that mean literal "fire and brimstone"? I don't think so. The apocalypse of this world is the revelation of mankind, the spiritual enlightenment of our entire species. At least, that's how I interpret it, though you are free to come to your own conclusions.

So, no, the "mission" of the O.'.S.'.D.'.L.'. (and the Enochian Angels, with or without our help) is not to invite a meteor shower or a nuclear war or anything Hollywood like that. Try to think of the Death card of the Tarot - when you get it, does it mean you're going to literally die? Do you get offended by the Tarot reader for "damning" your fate? The "End of this World" is a symbol, and it is a powerful symbol (especially proven by your zealous reaction) - as a Gnostic, I choose to interpret these symbols, and I believe I am all the better for it, because literal thinking is far too black and white to ever be real

In Gnostic mythology (which is really important if you want to get the most from Enochian, as there is a lot of Gnostic stuff there, and most Enochian scholars and magicians will point out many obvious links), humanity is seen to be imprisoned within the Cosmos ("The System" - think The Matrix if you're unfamiliar with Gnostic teaching). The single most important goal of a Gnostic is the attainment of Gnosis, which contributes to the freeing of the divine spark within each of us from this "prison" that we find ourselves in (samsara, the cycle of reincarnation, in Buddhist teaching). Humanity is seen as "sleeping", ruled by an oppressive force that thinks it is God (the Demiurge), and, there are many Archons on either side of this "cosmic battle", duelling for the fate of mankind and the entire cosmos itself (think of the Archons of the Oracle [well, she's not really an Archon - she is "Sophia"] and Seraph in The Matrix... these are part of the system, yet they try to destroy the system. Indeed, the Oracle literally says that her job is to "unbalance" things, which you'll note in one of the responses in the other thread on the Enochian angels). So, these Archons were created by the Demiurge, the "false god", and some of them want to break free from their bondage, just as we, the human race, do. I think that's an admirable and very understandable "cause", and if you've ever been concerned about dictators in the past, then I think you would too.

The Enochian angels are not the Grigori, in my opinion (and I will add the weight of my Gnosis behind that claim). It's a nice suggestion, but I think we can throw that into the same bucket with all the other arguments for these beings being demons (there's no solution to that argument - it has gone on for decades amongst magicians). Search the net and you'll find plenty of discussion and arguments on this topic if you are so inclined.

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The "End of the World" is something that has been happening since 101 A.D. People of every generartion believe that theirs is the last to live on this planet. It is an all-too-common theme that resounds throughout history. St. Augustine believed that the "City of God" would appear in his lifetime. Martin Luther believed firmly that the Pope of his day was the anticrhist and that the end would occur before his (Luther's) death. Others have named Napoleon as the antichrist, or Hitler, and seen the end of times knocking on the door of each generation. Even former vice-president Al Gore preaches his own brand of eschatological doom and gloom.

The way I used the phrase "End of the World" was as a metaphor for something dramatic that may or may not happen around 2012. The time is right for this event (the beginning of the Age of Aquarius, or the Aeon of Horus), and has been right since Frater Achad and Baphomet first predicted that event back in the early years of the last century. How much closer do you think we are NOW? What I've said here has been said by so many people in the past, I can't imagine why it has caused so much controversy.

Our work with the entities is extensive, but it isn't suicidal. No one is going to continue to work with a group of beings (or people) who continue to be dishonest and untrustworthy, and seem to have nothing but contempt for our race. That would be idiotic not to mention counter-productive in the extreme. Just like the rest of you, I am seeking only knowledge and the Great Work -- to suggest that it is my goal to gleefully bring the world to a crashing end with all of you left out in the bitter darkness gnashing your teeth, is just an INSULT. It is my fervent hope and prayer that when the dawn of the New Age comes, we will all be ready to STAND on our own two feet, without help from anyone or anything. To that end, Amen.

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All I can do is encourage folks to thoroughly do there homework before making wild speculations? I cannot believe this being discussed in the CM forum, we don't go and Fob off everyone practising the Goetia or doing work with the Necronomicon! Or other systems.. In my humble opinion they can be far more dangerous for the Ignorant practitioner, but they still can be very effective for accomplishing the "Great Work" ..Enochian as a system has created controversy ever since the days of Dee and Kelley. So has every other system of serious magickal Practice. The point is to find what works for you. We can talk and theorise about "Enochian" that is still not going to convince anyone as to its authenticity, or effectiveness I suggest you actually approach the subject with an open mind and not fear the hounds of hell coming to drag you from your Bed, or bring Jesus back and the rapture For those of us who have a passion for this system and who work with it Primarily as a framework, We can only put forth our experience with it. We are not asking for validation as an Order. We do fine just on our own thank you very much. We just offered our Interpretation and experience with Enochian... Fair enough you are entitled to your opinion, but don't try and sway it for those that want to make up there own minds.

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While I have never personally worked with the Enochian angels yet, I view them the same as I view any other entity be it planetary intellegence or Mr. Smith next door. They will do what they believe is best for them in the long run and if helping us humans, helps them then that is fine and good for us, but we should always keep in mind that they have their own agenda just as
Neshamah stated in his Enochian class. [By the way thanks for doing that class Neshamah, it's answering many questions I had.] However their agenda is not neccessarilly to our harm and like any other entity all we can do is work with them and see if they bring harm or benefit.
That said I would like to offer my current view of the enochian apocalypse. I personally believe that doomsday won't arrive till our sun expands in it's death throes, so I tend to take apocalypse to mean revealling.
Now think about this, our concensus reality is static for the most part. Time is linear; up and down are always the same; You are born, age and die; ect. Yet as magicians we know that this doesn't hold true if you can see passed the surface. Now with quantum mechanics concensus reality is starting to shift to a view much closer to what magicians have seen for ages.
Perhaps the apocalypse the enochian angels speak of is this shift. A breaking free of the prison of static reality and the opening of a reality for all mankind where almost anything is possible. As long as humanity sees reality as static, it is difficult for spirits and entities to openly walk among us, so if you were one of these entities wouldn't that seem sort of like a prison to you?
Just my current views on this thread.

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he Aethyrs are a place: They ARE a place. That place may be in my head, but it is a real place -- it has an environment ("Is that really air you are breathing?"), it has inhabitants in it with which one can interract (indeed, must interract if one wishes to complete the task in that particular Aethyr). Go read some of the late Benjamin Rowe's writings and determine whether or not he believed the Aethyrs to be a real place.

Binah is black: That is a matter of opinion or a matter of perception. The idea that Binah is black comes out of many threads of tradition. It is said to be black because it correpsonds to Saturn; it is the nearest (theoretically) Supernal to us and its Light hides rather than reveals (one fo the many traditions about Binah). Do I believe that there is a black sphere somewhere that represents Binah? No more than I believe that there are spirits that live on each planet in our Solar System.

Having never met Choronzon personally, I guess I shouldn't have said that about him. He might be perfectly delightful. But, based on what Crowley has said about him, no, I really wouldn't want to be in the same building with the beast. Was 666 speaking literally or metaphorically? I have no idea -- perhaps someone who knows the Twisted One better than I could answer that.

The Abyss is a desert: As I said originally, any place that is totally isolated from everything and everyone else, where one's thoughts feel like sandpaper in one's skull, and one's breathing begins to annoy one, and the blinking of one's eyeballs begins to make so many unpleasant noises that one wants to retch -- that place could be called a "desert," metaphorically. And, Yes, I have had experience on that particluar Path of the Tree, but this will be the last time I mention it. I should have known better in the first place and just not talk about it. Which may be my course of action from now on.

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Nice p.o.v.
Allow me to share my own. The world is a living athanor, an alchemical oven. We enter it and through different lifes and ages we are transformed. When we reach human perfection we choose another path. Some ascend ( and by ascending I mean the alchemical process by which Jesus The Christ, Mary of Nazareth, and several Taoist Masters left the world in body and soul ) some abandon the world and go to learn elsewhere and a few choose to return to the world to help others to achieve their liberation. Call it enligthment, Budahood, Christ Consciousness, Whatever…And has you should know each one of us that reaches there paves the way for others to go. Evolution becomes easier.

Angels, Demons, Gods/Goddesses, spirits, animals, plants, rocks, the Earth itself are in this with us. They’re also evolving.

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Feel free to be amused…However just in case that you may be interested in feeling sad, I’ll give you some real life examples of spiritual fascism… I think that most people in this forum will remember at least some of them…
An american exorcist that went to visit India and that tried to exorcise every God and Spirit that he felt in the temples that he visited.
A teenager that was forced to join a Christian boot camp where he had to go without food and sleep for days on end while suffering constant indoctrination, so that he stopped being homosexual and wiccan.
The baptism of the dead ancestors by the Mormon Church. The dead can’t say no, can they ?
Having to say grace and say the Lord’s prayer, on the soup kitchen to be able to eat a meal.
Spiritual fascism as you should have realized by now is when someone forces his/hers spiritual beliefs and choices over the beliefs and choices of others.

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I guess I will begin by stating that while I beleive that a great shift is approaching and approximate 2012 as being a good candidate; I am not a doomsday nut. I live both as if I were going to live to see the next century and as if each day were my last.

As to being in league with some sort of "Enochian" plot to bring about global destruction or "spiritual fascism" as was coined; I can resolutly deny any such thing. There are forces/beings out there that wish such a thing as you described. I have seen them ( the telochvovim ) massing for a confrontation and I stand against them.

By no means do I shove my paradigm down anybodys gullet. I only offer my experience and perspectives for discussion and comparison.

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posted June 29, 2011 01:02 PM            

I found the post co-relating with "The Matrix" very interesting, but then the more I sieve through the web for information, the more than trilogy hits closer home than most of our "scripture". Also the amount of New Age misinformation and floofy ideas floating around are enough to distract the average seeker.

Which is why it is said,

Let those who have eyes, see. Let those who have ears, hear.