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Author Topic:   What if it it isn't an original "sin"?
ListensToTrees
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posted April 09, 2008 06:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message
A while ago I was so impressed with this quote, I posted it here under the title of "The True Source Of Original Sin":

"Ego is no more than this: identification with form, which primarily means thought forms. If evil has any reality - and it has a relative, not absolute, reality - this is also it's definition: complete identification with form - physical forms, thought forms, emotional forms. This results in a total unawareness of my connectedness with the whole, my intrinsic oneness with every "other" as well as with the Source. This forgetfulness is original sin, suffering, delusion. When this delusion of utter separateness underlies and governs whatever I think, say and do, what kind of world do I create? To find the answer to this, observe how humans relate to each other, read a history book, or watch the news on television tonight".

~Ekhart Tolle, A New Earth


On further reflection......

What if this isn't a "sin"?

Descartes wrote "I think, therefore I am".
But I often wonder if it is "I desire, therefore I am". For without desire, there would be no movement....just never ending static existence.

So, maybe out of this static BLOB of existence, came forth vibration, the word, the pattern of life....and creation in all its forms and all its art.
Thought is just a part of the music of creation.

This is the world of creation....not the world of illusion....illusion is just one way of putting it.

And in my kingdom, there are many mansions. (= dimensions?)


So maybe in the beginning was the first word...the movement of infinite consciousness into vibration, into matter.....Why, one may ask? To know itself, perhaps?


Perhaps the movement of infinity into form was never a sin, but simply the source of all of creation, all of beauty, all that is?

Sure, life is tough here.....
but perhaps this school is the most difficult stage of our experience, or evolution

Perhaps there are more harmonious dimensions

Perhaps we need to go through all these levels in order to evolve into our Higher Selves, which we can still access at any Time, as there is a place that is beyond Time, and maybe that place beyond Time there for the purpose of us being able to access it?

Perhaps, all we need to really do, is learn how to bring Heaven down to Earth?
http://www.consciousone.com/wisdomflash/WFProduct/wisdomflashes/journey.swf

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 09, 2008 06:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/009983.html

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 09, 2008 06:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ-pM9qIrHM

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 09, 2008 06:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message
dp

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Mannu
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posted April 09, 2008 09:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
God is not omniscient and omnipotent at the same time.

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 10, 2008 03:24 AM           Edit/Delete Message
"The most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish your feelings - words shrink things that seem timeless when they are in your head to no more than living size when they are brought out."

~Stephen King

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 10, 2008 03:26 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Did we fall from grace?
Or is there a plan?

- because we are a part of God, a part of everything?
Because we are a part of God, in his/her finite forms?

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 10, 2008 03:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message


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venusdeindia
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posted April 10, 2008 12:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message

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Obe
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posted April 10, 2008 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Obe     Edit/Delete Message
All is Love, Love is All

not only what we think it is, not just a thing, not just a feeling, not something to be kept in a box...but what we search for is when Love loves itself, and realizes that it Is what it searches for, goes within instead of searching for infinity withOut

the Universe is speedily expanding scientists so say, and they believe there will be an implosion at the 'end'

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 10, 2008 05:08 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Why can't I be more like "Amelie" and amuse myself with more of the simpler questions in life?

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Unmoved
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posted April 11, 2008 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
LTT, my question for you is: If say you did find an answer, would it change anything about your life, perception of life or the quality of your life?

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 11, 2008 03:25 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I suppose that would depend on the answer.

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Unmoved
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posted April 11, 2008 03:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
I suppose. It's just that, in my life, nothing would change. Even if hell is proved scientifically, I think I would still go there. If I was born a sinner, I would still be me. If I was born perfect, nothing would change in my immediate life. If God came to me with a booming voice and told me to repent, I'd probably be freaked out, but I doubt it would make a difference in my life. I'd still be afraid of what I am afraid of now etc.

I would probably lie and say I will repent, or I would repent, but from fear, not because of truth...

Whether God is exists, or not... I would still be like this.

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 11, 2008 03:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I think what would really make a difference to me, would be to know for sure whether life does have a meaning or not, whether any of this matters, whether we are ascending towards something through our experiences here and on other plains, and if not, whether this life, this creation, is part of some greater picture...some divine plan of sorts....

I think this is what I'm trying to figure out through my musings and meditations.

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Unmoved
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posted April 11, 2008 04:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
I see...

Have you considered what you'd be, what you'd do, for both scenario?

Say there was no purpose, what would you change about your life?

...and if we are part of a divine plan, how would your life change?

...and now, being at a place where you don't know what the deal is, like currently, how is that affecting you?

Sorry to grind you with questions, but I am curious, that's all. I'm just interested.

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 11, 2008 04:20 AM           Edit/Delete Message
To be honest...I think being in the state of mind currently, not knowing anything for absolute sure- makes me feel sort of prone to periodic bouts of apathy/ melancholia; a sort of vulnerability. When I person learns to be a "Master", surely this can be overcome? You see, I feel to be "enlightened" is one thing, and to be a "Master" is another.

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Unmoved
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posted April 11, 2008 04:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Unmoved     Edit/Delete Message
I totally get the "Enlightened/Master" thing. It's not really the same thing. One is knowledgeable and the other is wise, respectively.

I am not going to prod you any further, but I will leave you with this: I hope you find comfort in vulnerability because I have a feeling that this is the most probable way to find peace.

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ListensToTrees
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posted April 11, 2008 04:54 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Thank you....for sharing your thoughts.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
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posted April 11, 2008 12:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Whether or not the universe exists to fulfill some higher purpose, and whether or not we are born to assist in that great undertaking, the individual may still give a creative meaning to his or her existence, independent of the (conscious or unconscious) intentions of the whole. Even at our present level of consciousness, we are privy to moments of meaningfulness; deep feelings of connectedness, wholeness, and community with all of life. These instances may be fleeting, but they are frequently enough to infuse the whole of life with a sense of hope and faith, if not in some ultimate, comprehensive solution to the intrinsic problems of existence, yet, in the experience of a moment which surpasses and eclipses all former sense of longing and separateness (if only for the moment). That meaning is accomplished in such moments is as undeniable as the fact that meaninglessness is realized in the absence of such moments, and in the desperate futility of clinging to them. The experience of connectedness may be prolonged only by the suspension of thought, and, for this end, it is necessary to discipline the mind. When we understand that the nature of mind is divisive, and that the mind, like a sharp sword, cannot act without creating ever greater separateness and division among the objects of thought, it becomes apparent that the only way to foster wholeness, or, to observe the wholeness as it presents itself, at all times, to the mind, is to withdraw the mind into the emptiness of the Self, like a sword into its scabbard. Then, wholeness is not something which may be pondered at all, since, the very act of contemplation is a violent and divisive act. However, it may be worth considering that the play of the mind is not entirely negative, but, is itself an act of affirmation and creation, which proceeds directly from the void of wholeness. I believe it is possible to use the mind in such a way, provided one is conscious of doing so.


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ListensToTrees
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posted April 11, 2008 03:27 PM           Edit/Delete Message
My thought for the day:

Finding happiness within and without are equally important.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
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posted April 11, 2008 03:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message

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deuxantares
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posted May 02, 2008 06:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for deuxantares     Edit/Delete Message
i found the answer by reading about quantum physics.

then i merged it with what i have learned in the area of spirituality.

and they fit perfectly.

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listenstotrees
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posted May 09, 2010 04:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh9YbCGEYmk

Evidence that consciousness creates DNA, not the other way around.
(about 10 minutes into link)

I don't agree with everything he says (in other presentations and such), but the information in the above link is very interesting.

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