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Author
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Topic: " Jesus died from a clot"
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Yang
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: A temporary home
Registered: May 2004
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posted June 10, 2005 05:49 AM
 
An Israeli doctor, Benjamin Brenner, claims that Jesus may have died from a blood clot which reached his lungs, challenging the popular conception that he died of asphyxiation and blood loss.
The reason why the doctor publicised his theory is to raise awareness of pulmonary embolism, a potential fatal disorder which is often associated with long-distance air travel. It is caused when a blood clot travels to the lungs, causing an acute shortness of breath and chest pains.It makes me angry when people use religion to gain recognition for thier own benefit but then again maybe this is a break-through in medical science. Another thing is the main reason why Jesus died was to save our sins. IP: Logged |
maklhouf
Knowflake Posts: 1404
From:
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted June 10, 2005 09:30 AM
It gets worse. Some fellow has written a book titled "what would Jesus eat?"IP: Logged |
Philbird
Knowflake Posts: 3396
From: Here, there and everywhere.
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted June 10, 2005 10:27 AM
Mentos! That is the best explanation of his death I think I ever heard!  IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted June 10, 2005 10:43 AM
This is one area I have STRONG opinions on...but I will try to keep my mouth shut.....I just wanted to state that because I have voiced myself on the whole Jesus/Yeshua matter before...and I think I had better keep my "theories" on this to myself for the time being.....people hold to the desire of wanting, hoping and believing so much, that another can clean them and save them..and all they need to do is ask or believe...and they do not need to put any effort into it.
Ok....I will shut up for now...it is just that this subject drives me crazy!
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Saturn's Child
Knowflake Posts: 867
From: Just left of center
Registered: May 2004
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posted June 10, 2005 11:25 AM
Fayte.....I hear ya! If I can get someone else to take the fall....Jesus, the devil...then I have no responsibility! Hey, either it was God's will or the devil made me do it!!~ ~~ ~I'm with you girl!!!!!IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted June 10, 2005 12:44 PM
Saturn's Child! Hey! 
To have a person be the scapegoat for the human condition, guilt and lack of responsibilty is just downright crazy! It is akin to crucifying the martyr psychically every moment, for thousands of years! The power of thought...and the crucifiction symbol is a terrible way to depict "anyone"!
Holy Moley! That is a form of VOO DOO! Why not just go stick a pin in or write your sin on a Jesus doll/effigy!? GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRR...Ok...now I have went and done it! Opened my mouth! I just feel so sad and it pains me to see the great teacher...one of many throughout time...be depicted in such a savage manner! I do not find this a sign of love or respect! I do not think anyone would like to be depicted in that fashion...it is just plain CREEPY! IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted June 10, 2005 12:44 PM
OOOOPS! Double posted!IP: Logged |
DayDreamer
Knowflake Posts: 4841
From:
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted June 10, 2005 04:06 PM
wow soo many different theories...we'll find out one day!IP: Logged |
Ayumi
Knowflake Posts: 135
From:
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted June 11, 2005 10:37 AM
I feel ya, Fayte. But what about this - (and I don't claim to be an expert on this) Perhaps its true, and he did have to give his life for the sole purpose of reestablishing a direct connection between us and our creator (elimanating the need for sacrifice of animals and telling your sins to a preist). I bet there is a scientific explanation for it too, they seem to be coming up with those lately. Maybe it just had to be that way. In that case, I think it was pretty nice of him to go to all that trouble. Not that he was just saving our sorry butts and excusing us from all our earlier stupidity, but actually setting things right in the universe.IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted June 11, 2005 10:46 AM
Ayumi! I see you gave it some thought. I like that! However as he even said...and I know I am paraphrasing...."we do have a direct connection to God, we always have...yet they do not see, hear, etc."
I will find the exact quotes later...thanks for the thoughts!
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DayDreamer
Knowflake Posts: 4841
From:
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted June 11, 2005 05:14 PM
fayte.m I just want to say I agree with many, but not all of your views. So I give you props for that!  I like these sort of discussions, and I guess if you're offended they're on LL then maybe just not read into them...right!?!?IP: Logged |
Saturn's Child
Knowflake Posts: 867
From: Just left of center
Registered: May 2004
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posted June 11, 2005 06:39 PM
Hmmm.........So, If the Kingdom of God is within me (as the Bible says) then why would it be necessary for someone, anyone to die to make a connection between me and God.
If God is omnipotent/omniscient, why would anyone/anything need to die in order to make some sort connection/covenant.If God is love (as the Bible says)why would God have anyone/anything die in order to be satisfied/appeased/glorified/whatever??
I'm sure animal sacrific was man's idea/need, not God's. I cannot even imagine that God would say to man, "Kill this lamb and all will be well." I don't believe that God requires sacrifice. I don't think God requires anything of us. Isn't that what free will is all about?? IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted June 11, 2005 07:46 PM
DayDreamer!
Thank you! Yeah these debates are a good thing...and if it all offends...well...you are right...then do not get involved! Debates are for the bantering back and forth, not to get all pis--y faced about the subject getting discussed/debated!
There is ALOT I want to talk about on this and other things in the various versions of the Bible....But am afraid of really upsetting people! But I do not want to say things to start fights...in fact there are way too many things biblical that just do not make a bit of sense...and so much is just plain vile, nasty and downright evil!
Ever notice that only Lord, and all the other names used....supposedly for one entity...is associated with things most consider as evil? But Lucifer is not? Things like darkness, fire, burning, animal (and people too) sacrifice, torture, murders, bigotry, intolerance, jealousy, hate....and the list just goes on! And of course those evil spirits from the Lord that screw up Saul's head! Just weird! How about the ten commandments...and how at Lord's command, the "thou shalt not kill" is just tossed away as whim, so one can smite, destroy utterly, dash children to pieces and more...but do not kill.....
Ok...I am rambling!IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted June 11, 2005 08:14 PM
Saturn's Child! OOOH you said what I mean!  COOL!
Quote:
Hmmm.........So, If the Kingdom of God is within me (as the Bible says) then why would it be necessary for someone, anyone to die to make a connection between me and God.
If God is omnipotent/omniscient, why would anyone/anything need to die in order to make some sort connection/covenant.Yeah...that does sound rather odd doesn't it? The supposed creator of a cosmos and all it's many parts down beyond the sub atomic...and needs..."NEEDS" to have a sacrifice or desires as it says in the Bibles...to paraphrase...savors the smell of burning flesh....Yeah right...
Next Quote:
If God is love (as the Bible says)why would God have anyone/anything die in order to be satisfied/appeased/glorified/whatever?? That is crazy! not to forget the "NEED" for humans to go to war and kill his other creations...YES people, lord of the Bibles "needs" help!
He is also sadistic and jealous!
Next Quote:
I'm sure animal sacrific was man's idea/need, not God's. I cannot even imagine that God would say to man, "Kill this lamb and all will be well." Oh boy! I agree! It is like that whole business with Cain and Able....Cain was doing EXACTLY as he was told...Then Lord taunted him and told him he liked mutilated animals MUCH better! Geeez! That was just sick!
Next Quote:
I don't believe that God requires sacrifice. I don't think God requires anything of us. Isn't that what free will is all about?? If I just use the Bible for the answer to that...it is in there...Go to the "FIRST CREATION" in Genesis....not the EDEN ZOO of the second Psuedo creation, by another entity. In the first humans(not Adam/Eve) were created...then given dominion over the entire Earth..NO RESTRICTIONS! No TABOO tree or other nonsense...the entire world for humankind, all of them! And none of the crap of woman coming from man....or original sin! In the first creation story that would be impossible! Funny thing is that even in the second version in the Eden Zoo...Eve is not kicked out..only Adam is. Also GOD of the first creation made the serpent also....
Something very very very wrong here..... Ok...anyone want to discuss this? Or any other Biblical aspects? Now remember every version is remarkably different...so you can not pit them against each other...and leads to the next thing...so which version if any is the "one"? I would really enjoy and welcome some rational and well thought out discussions on all this...not repeated platitudes and sermons just because your clergyman told you, or because it is written down...Alot of stuff is written down, but that doesn't make it right or good or whatever.
Seriously.....anyone interested?
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted June 11, 2005 08:31 PM
Yang!  I hope I do not make you angry with me...I value your friendship, even though we do not always see eye to eye! You are an intellegent man!
Love
Fayte
IP: Logged |
sue g
Knowflake Posts: 8591
From: former land of the leprechaun
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted June 13, 2005 02:17 PM
My sister asked my mother recently why she had decided to raise us in an organised religious way (she was a Jehovas Witness), and she replied, cos I wanted to give you and Sue some guidance in life. Well that was a very interesting answer, cos both of us rebelled big time, especially me getting divorced twice, studying the occult (as they would put it), living in sin with two men etc etc. If anything this religious guidance had an adverse affect. I cannot stand religion in any shape or form and I feel no need to be "told" what to do by any minister, priest or even the holy book. I have an open mind and heart and dont need to fall back on what can at times be a confusing and misleading way of living. Ooooh wouldnt I just be sent to the ducking chair a few hundred years ago - thanks be to God for freedom of speech. I found it highly amusing that those two nuns I met said I was the "most religious person" theyd ever met, (they meant spiritual) and they had met the POPE - and there I rest my case!!! Fayte girl you are a woman again after my own heart -God bless you xxxIP: Logged |
Devilfish
Knowflake Posts: 574
From:
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted June 13, 2005 05:28 PM
sometimes we identify with GOD of the O.T.
sometimes we identify with Christ
sometimes we require sacrafice
sometimes we kill pieces of ourselves
sometimes we fall
sometimes we weep
sometimes we crawl
and then we get up
cause
we always rise
pain is good
its a teacher
recognition is divine
its a healer
revelation
ALL is relavent
all is needed
balancing is transendence
knowing is GodhoodIP: Logged |
Thorshammer
Moderator Posts: 1069
From: salt lake city, utah, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted June 15, 2005 03:16 AM
maklhouf
that was a good book...did you read it? SUE, I am right there with you..lol..with the JW thing and all the sinning...well they call it sinning.I could never let anyone or anything steer me...I follow my own path...it amazes me that people would follow a priest or anyone else for that sake instead of finding truth for themselves. I always think of it this way...If there was a line for everyone to see GOD, they would get there holy people to do that talking for him...Hell no...I wanna talk to the Creator (if there is one) Myself!!! I wonder if JWs are the same in Ireland as in the states...lol. IP: Logged |
maklhouf
Knowflake Posts: 1404
From:
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted June 15, 2005 12:24 PM
Not the book, an interview with its author. One interesting thing he said. MeaLY-Mouthed protestant types like to say JC drank a special type of no-alcohol wine, but this guy proved he liked the hard stuff!IP: Logged |
trillian
Knowflake Posts: 4050
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted June 15, 2005 01:44 PM
Whatever your definition of Jesus, as man or deity, I'm sure he has a sense of humor and doesn't give much of a damn beyond a good chuckle whether people believe he drank wine or died of an embolism. Focusing on such things misses the whole point of his alleged existence.  ------------------
The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine. -Indigo Girls IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted June 15, 2005 02:26 PM
Man..deified by people who needed a messiah, scapegoat, but a great teacher he was in those days..under his name then.....Wine? Of course he drank real wine! Virtually everyone did! Even Noah was a butt naked drunk...and Lot..and other so called "good guys".
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Lindaland
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