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Author Topic:   Extract from Communion With God by Neale D. Walsch
ListensToTrees
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posted November 18, 2008 12:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
"We are born into a hostile world, run by a God who has things He wants us to do and things He wants us not to do, and will punish us with everlasting torture if we don't get the two right.

"Our first experience in Life is separation from our mother, the Source of our Life. This creates the context for our entire reality, which we experience as one of separation from the Source Of All Life.

"We are not only separate from all Life but from everything else in Life. Everything that exists, exists separate from us. And we are separate from everything else that exists. We do not want it this way, but this is the way it is. We wish it were otherwise, and, indeed, we strive for it to be otherwise.

"We seek to experience Oneness again with all things, and especially with each other. We may not know why, exactly, yet it seems almost instinctual. It feels like the natural thing to do. The only problem is, there does not seem to be enough of the other to satisfy us. No matter what the other thing is that we want, we cannot seem to get enough of it. We cannot get enough love, we cannot get enough time, we cannot get enough money. We cannot get enough of whatever it is we think we need in order to be happy and fulfilled. The moment we think that we have enough, we decide that we want more.

"Since there is 'not enough' of whatever it is we think we need to be happy, we must 'do stuff' to get as much as we can get. Things are required of us in exchange for everything, from God's love to the natural bounty of Life. Simply 'being alive' is not enough. Therefore we, like all of Life, are not enough.

"Because just 'being' isn't sufficient, the competition begins. If there's not enough out there, we have to compete for what's there.

"We have to compete for everything, including God.

"This competition is tough. It is about our very survival. In this contest, only the fittest survive. And to the victor go all the spoils. If we lose, we live a hell on Earth. And after we die, if we are losers in the competition for God, we experience hell again-this time forever.

"Death was actually created by God because our forebears made the wrong choices. Adam and Eve had everlasting life in the Garden of Eden. But then, Eve ate the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and she and Adam were driven from the Garden by an angry God. This God sentenced them, and all their progeny forevermore, to death as the first punishment. Henceforth, life in the body would be limited, and no longer everlasting, and so would the stuff of Life.

"Yet God will give us back our everlasting life if we never again break His rules. God's love is unconditional, it is only God's rewards which are not. God loves us even as He condemns us to everlasting damnation. It hurts Him more than it hurts us, because He really wants us to return home, but He can't do anything about it if we misbehave. The choice is ours.

"The trick is, therefore, to not misbehave. We need to live a good life. We must strive to do so. In order to do so, we have to know the truth about what God wants and does not want from us. We cannot please God, and we cannot avoid offending Him, if we do not know right from wrong. So we have to know the truth about that.

"The truth is simple to understand and easy to know. All we have to do is listen to the prophets, teachers, sages, and the source and founder of our religion. If there is more than one religion and, therefore, more than one source and founder, then we have to make sure to pick the right one. Picking the wrong one could result in us being a loser.

"When we pick the right one, we are superior, we are better than our peers, because we have the truth on our side. This state of being 'better' allows us to claim most of the prizes in the contest without actually contesting them. We get to declare ourselves the winners before the competition begins. It is out of this awareness that we give ourselves all the advantages, and write our 'Rules of Life' in such a way that certain others find it nearly impossible to win the really big prizes.


"We do not do this out of meanness but simply in order to ensure that victory is ours-as rightly it should be, since it is those of our religion, of our nationality, of our race, of our gender, of our political persuasion who know the truth, and therefore deserve to be winners.

"Because we deserve to win, we have a right to threaten others, to fight with them, even to kill them if necessary, in order to produce this result.

"There may be another way to live, another thing that God has in mind, another, larger truth, but if there is, we don't know it. In fact, it is not clear whether we are even supposed to know it. It is possible that we are not supposed to even try to know it, much less to truly know and understand God. To try is presumptuous, and to declare that you have actually done so is blasphemous.

"God is the Unknown Knower, the Unmoved Mover, the Great Unseen. Therefore, we cannot know the truth that we are required to know in order to meet the conditions that we are required to meet in order to receive the love that we are required to receive in order to avoid the condemnation that we are seeking to avoid in order to have the everlasting life that we had before any of this started.

"Our ignorance is unfortunate, but should not be problematic. All we need do is take what we think we do know-our cultural story-on faith, and proceed accordingly. This we have tried to do, each according to his or her own beliefs, and thus we have produced the life that we are now living, and the reality on Earth that we are creating."

This is how most of the human race has it constructed. You each have your minor variations, but this is, in essence, how you live your lives, justify your choices, and rationalize the outcomes.

Some of you do not accept all of this, yet all of you accept some of it. And you accept these statements as the operating reality not because they reflect your innermost wisdom but because someone else has told you that they are true.

At some level, you have had to make yourself believe them.

This is called make-believe".

None of this is real.

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ListensToTrees
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posted November 18, 2008 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000575.html

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Mannu
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posted November 18, 2008 08:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
He arrives at the right result but his talk is gibberish. Adam and eve are mythical.

And God is not a person. He or She does not exist.

But there are people who are emotional and perhaps they will like his books.

There is no right or wrong in chosing our spiritual paths.

But ignorance is bad in all paths.

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

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posted November 18, 2008 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
"True wisdom exists in knowing that you "know" nothing" ~Socrates.

For that reason, it helps to be humble.

"Assumption is the antithesis of understanding".

The truth cannot be reach through the mind.

But through the heart.

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Mannu
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posted November 18, 2008 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
Gee, I just quoted that Socrates quote today on another thread

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Mannu
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posted November 18, 2008 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
>>>Death was actually created by God


He is such an idiot. He speaks about God in the past tense.

There are much much more ... but if you enjoyed him good for you.

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Mannu
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posted November 18, 2008 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
He is suggesting getting back to God. Just with heart you cannot reach your highest experience , you have to use intelligence. Not necessarily IQ and all that stuff of our human brains but because we do have our brains it could be used for a better purpose and become wise like King Solomon. And then slowly arrive at the highest intelligence possible. Without it you cannot reach the higher peaks if you desire to reach the highest pinnacle. But if you are happy to stay at the heart level then it is fine too.

All parts of our body should be functioning properly -- Head, heart, stomach and digestive, sex center, etc etc...

Like in car how when one part fails it affects the performance of the car.


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ListensToTrees
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posted November 18, 2008 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h04I5MtuOMw

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Mannu
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posted November 18, 2008 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
u don't see darkness you are darkness

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Mannu
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posted November 18, 2008 09:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
u don't flip me really.

ur faith reminds me of my sister. once she was praying very devotedly , so I thought but then her ears were on what i was conversing with my other sister over phone

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ListensToTrees
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posted November 19, 2008 12:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Have you read any of his books, Mannu?

From start to finish?

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Mannu
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posted November 19, 2008 01:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
No, I could not even go past 2 pages.
His words didn't elevate me.

And as I mentioned his book title itself was ridiculous.

But many here swear by his books.

Good for them.

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TINK
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posted November 19, 2008 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TINK     Edit/Delete Message
Mannu, I hope you don't mind a question ...

What is the appeal of all this wishy washy New Age "feel good" nonsense? I notice how easily people dismiss the classics - The Gita, the Gospels, the Torah etc - and yet flock to people like Walsch or Marianne Williams or the like. It's akin to trading in your first edition Dostoevsky for a trashy Romance paperback. I don't get it. And I'm truly curious. Any thoughts?

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ListensToTrees
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posted November 19, 2008 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I just thought I would share what I had found with LL. Obviously I wasted my time.

If one is going to judge something, surely it is better to educate oneself on that subject first. If it doesn't resonate, then fine, but why do people feel the need to compete with their own views and beliefs?

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TINK
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posted November 19, 2008 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TINK     Edit/Delete Message
Why do you say that, LTT? It wasn't a waste of time at all - it's produced questions and comments. This forum is for sharing our thoughts on religious and spiritual matters, no? No need to take anything personally. I suppose we might limit ourselves to uncritical, unquestioning comments only, but that's not the direction we've all taken. Maybe that's not so bad after all. Might as well be honest, right?

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ListensToTrees
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posted November 19, 2008 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I've only listened to the first hour of this lecture by Nassim Haramein, I'm going to listen to more of it tonight. But, in answer to your question, it is inspiration which has come from this sort of information- that has caused me to feel that "wishy-washy" authors/ teachers such as Neale Donald Walsch could indeed be right. Of course he might not be 100% on anything, and he explains in his book that we must only take what feels right in our gut, our intuition. I myself have drawn strength from it over the past few days, but I still have a long way to go. The mind has been getting confused again, and I am going through a "dark night of the soul". I will watch more of Nassim Haramein tonight, and things might start feeling better soon.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6151699791256390335&ei=7jEUSfzB PKf22gLky9iCDQ&q=Nassim+Haramein


Also, in response to Mannu's comment about the intellect, I cannot see that this is the answer either. There are over a thousand ways to look at the world, and anyone can find whatever information he or she wishes, to support that view. It's like this endless cycle. Each person trying to prove their point. It is more like a game of life that we like to indulge ourselves in. But I don't see that it will bring us any closer to the truth, unless we are simply looking to solve a puzzle or crime case (for example). When it comes to actual spiritual truth, what other place can we find it except for within ourselves?

This world is only real because our eyes tell us it is. Our eyes are simply decoding a series of signals. But even scientists cannot prove, by this alone, that the world that appears around us, is in fact real.

"What The Bleep Do We Know" is another fascinating thing to watch.

At least these dark nights of the soul push me to search for answers. So it might not be a bad thing after all. Maybe it is a blessing in disguise?

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ListensToTrees
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posted November 19, 2008 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I too was skeptical about Neale Donald Walsch and did not feel like approaching his work, until now. My perspective of things has changed.

In his book "Happier than God", he says that God is within us, everywhere, and all around us. In a sense, we are God.

His teachings also fall into place with the near death experience story by Mellen Thomas:
http://www.mellen-thomas.com/stories.htm

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Mannu
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posted November 19, 2008 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
LTT,
i didn't know that u are going thru a dark night of the soul? do not miss this opportunity and go as deep as possible.
u will fear every step of the way but do not fear. we have been taught to fear death and chose life, but it is thru death that we find life. so keep going. even if u will die its ok. you have read so many things but it is now to keep it aside and surrender.also i said be wise not intelligent....its a different quality than intelligence... there comes a time to surrender everything to the source. Because what is yours really ? nothing. Only the ego claims knowledge and its rewards...
close your eyes if you want to ...and medidate near the gut as Walsh says. In Japan, there was a time when kids and some people used to point to their navel when asked "Which part of the body thinks?". People will laught -- but let them. You are there. You have been waiting for so many years for this moment.


no time to add more as I am really busy .... but also didn't wish to leave LL friends hanging so am typing what ever comes to mind without edits.

Tink,
I will reply to you in time.


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ListensToTrees
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posted November 20, 2008 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
You can find the answers via the intellect!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6151699791256390335&ei=7jEUSfzBPKf22gLky9iCDQ&q=Nassim+Haramein


Gonna see part 2 now

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TINK
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posted November 20, 2008 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TINK     Edit/Delete Message
That was a lovely post, LTT. I've read it several times this afternoon.

I don't think of myself as skeptical. I was immersed in New Age culture for several years and, although I'm not up to date on the latest, I feel reasonably well educated on its basic beliefs. It just didn't answer my questions satisfactorily. At the end - and this was hard to admit to myself - it felt like religion "lite". But I don't dismiss my Tarot Card reading, crystal wearing, incense burning New Age hippie days. It's all part of the journey.


A dark night of the soul is a serious business. And rare. I'm a bit jealous and a bit grateful it's you and not me, LTT. Have you read St John the Divine?

Mannu ~ I've been told you have experienced this as well. I'd love to ask you about it, but I'm guessing it's difficult to describe. I'll be waiting for your other answer though.

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Mannu
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posted November 21, 2008 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
Old is gold they say. The new agers have tried on their part to lift mankind towards God as opposed to the old ways of bringing God to Man.


Why I was saying LTT to go thru the dark night of the soul is because even Jesus said it in the scripture. Unless you are born again you shall not enter the kingdom. The church has no idea what he was talking about. And some one who claims has high IQ over here said stop preaching because she mistook me as preaching some "born again" christian doctrine. It is not that. If you continued thru the drk night of the soul without fear -- suddenly you will find that all strings to the moon is broken off (using figures of speech) and you are dead and many not having a guru by his side will not know what to do when that happens. Oh I wish I could share the mysteries of the kingdom -- I will one day hopefully Perhaps in a book form because LL is not a great place to blog. It does not have cool tools and new features that is available out there. Hope I have time off my busy schedule. I encourage traditional and mystery schools to sustain forever. Knowledge should not be lost.


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ListensToTrees
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posted November 21, 2008 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Nassim pulled me out of the darkness....he rekindled my sense of wonder again. I feel reborn.

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Mannu
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posted November 21, 2008 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
gee, you are fast.

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

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posted November 21, 2008 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
That's moon conjunct pluto for you. And of course, all that stimulating energy going on in our solar system as we approach the end of this sun cycle.

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D for Defiant
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posted November 23, 2008 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for D for Defiant     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
And God is not a person. He or She does not exist.

Certainly neither the Goddess nor the God is a "person". However, saying they do not exist is like your polar opposite- insisting there is only one true God, neither can provide proof. You said so only because Osho said so.

I have to say, though, that I am a Neale Donald Walsh unbeliever.

D

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