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Author Topic:   The Bible teaches Plurality of Gods, not Monotheism
Prince
Newflake

Posts: 6
From: Utah
Registered: Oct 2010

posted January 21, 2011 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Prince     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The ministers and pastors of most Christian traditions teach that the Father and the Son are one and the same God. This is probably due to the fact that Jesus told the people on several occasions that He and the Father are one, and perhaps also to a misunderstanding of such New Testament verses as John 1:1, which says:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This phrase, the Word was God (the term ‘Word’ referring to Jesus Christ) certainly could be misinterpreted to lead someone to believe that they were the same God. But then if you look at verse 2, it emphasizes the fact that the Word was with God, which could mean that they were two distinct entities:

2The same was in the beginning with God.

The fact is, that is what it does mean, which you will see in some verses that will follow. In fact some translations of the Bible have corrected that verse, the Word was God to read ‘the Word was a God’.

Since we can be mislead us into believing that the Father and the Son are the same God by the fact that several times in the Gospels Jesus says that He and the Father are one, let us look in other places where He reveals exactly what He means. For example, take a look at His words found in John17:11, 21-22

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Clearly these verses show that the ‘oneness’ that exists between the Father and the Son is no ‘mystery’ as many Christians are taught. It does not mean that they are the same person, being partly in Heaven and pertly on earth at the same time. If so, that would imply that He expects all of His disciples to become the same individual, as He prays, ‘that they may be one, even as we are one’, On the contrary, He is merely praying that they might become united in their minds and spirits, that they might arrive at the same understanding and purposes, etc.

Just a little bit of study of the Scriptures reveals that God the Father and God the Son are two distinct individuals, but they are united in understanding and purpose.

But now take a look at what else we were told in verses 1 and 2 of John, quoted above. John said that Jesus Christ was with God from the beginning! That must mean that the Saviour was working with the Father even during the Old Testament times! So where do we find Him mentioned in the Old Testament?

As I explained in a previous post, in the Old Testament the Hebrew word for the Most High God was El, and it specifically referred to God the Father. The Hebrew words Elahh, Eloahh and Chochmah are words that were used when speaking of the Goddess-consort of the Most High God, and specifically referring to our Heavenly Mother. Also we have the Hebrew word Elohiym, which is an unusual Hebrew grammatical construct combining the word for our Heavenly Mother, Eloah with the masculine plural suffix, ‘iym’ to form the combined plural term Elohiym, meaning ‘Heavenly Parents’ (Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother together).

But if the Son was also there in the beginning, and participated in the creation, as John said, where does the Son appear in the Old Testament? Many Bible scholars believe that the Hebrew words ‘Elohiym’ (translated into English ‘God’) and ‘YHWH’ (translated into English ‘LORD’ or Jehovah) both refer to the same God, but there are several occasions where it is shown that this is not the case.

For example, in Deuteronomy 32:8-9 we read:
8: When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
9:But the LORD’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

Here in verse 8 is mentioned the Most High God dividing the nations according to their inheritances, and setting their bounds based upon population. Then in verse 9 is mentioned Jehovah (LORD), and saying that He has received Jacob (the people of Israel) for an inheritance from the Most High God. These verses clearly demonstrate that El – the Most High God, and Jehovah – the LORD are two distinct personages. Thus we see here that YHWH became the God of Israel, having inherited the tribes of Jacob’s descendants.
Another scripture which demonstrates the distinction between the God - El and the LORD - YHWH if found in chapters 1:6 and 2:1 of the Book of Job.
1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God (Elohiym)came to present themselves before the LORD (YHWH), and Satan came also among them.
2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God (Elohiym)came to present themselves before the LORD (YHWH), and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

HERE in both verses we see that there are described two meetings that take place in the heavens in which the sons of God have come to present themselves before the LORD.
Again we can see that God and the LORD are two distinct personages with two different titles.
Now remember that the words of Jesus Himself, in the New Testament, make it obvious that He and His Father are two distinct individuals. But there is also other evidence given there that Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament, and not God the Father.
For example, first look back in Deuteronomy 32 again, at verses 4, 15, 18, 30, 31 and in many other places throughout the Old Testament Jehovah is referred to as the Rock of Israel:
4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just.

15 …They abandoned the God who made them and rejected the Rock their Savior.

18 You deserted the Rock, who fathered you;

30 How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?

31 For their rock is not like our Rock…

Yet in the New Testament Paul tells the Corinthians that Rock of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ. You can read it in 1 Cor. Chapter 10:2-4 :
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
But now, look at what Paul told the Hebrews about Jesus Christ. In Hebrews 5:8-9 he tells them:
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
This says that sometime before He became that God YHWH of the Old Testament, He had to go through the process of learning obedience and suffering from His mistakes until He became perfect. But the surprising thing is that He told us that we need to go through that same process! He said in Matthew 5:48, as follows:
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Does this mean that we are, or can become gods, as Jesus Christ did? Again quoting the apostle Paul as he spoke to the men of Athens, he said we are the offspring of God in Acts 17:28-29:
28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
And John tells us what will happen to us when we learn to follow the path that Jesus Christ has shown us, saying in 1John 3:2 as follows:
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
So now to recapitulate, the Bible tells us we have a Father in Heaven, a Mother in Heaven, an older Brother in Heaven who has saved us, and that we also have the destiny to become Gods like they are!
But the Bible also tells us how God the Father also came to be who He is. Consider the following words of Jesus in John 5:19-20:

19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Here He tells us some very revealing things…for example:
He tells us that He has never done anything until he saw the Father do it first, and then He will do the things that he saw the Father do! And then He says that the Father showed Him all the things that He (the Father) had previously done. Lets analyze exactly what that implies.
First it means that God the Father at some previous time had gone through all the same processes of learning obedience and suffering by His mistakes as Jesus Christ had done (Hebrews 5:8-9, until He became perfect.
Next it means that God the Father had at some previous time been born into mortality on some planet, and lived the life of a mortal man.
And thirdly it means that God the Father must have answered to, prayed to and obeyed a Heavenly Father of His own.
Fourth it implies that each Heavenly Father had a Father/God that preceded Him, to whom he answered, to whom he prayed, and in whose steps he followed.
When you stop to consider the vast endless size of the universe, with countless galaxies and solar systems and planets, it seems logical that there might be countless Gods creating them for their own offspring, so that they might have a place where their children could grow and learn and progress and become gods themselves, to continue the process on into endless space.
Of course for now we only need to know and learn to obey the specific Gods that created us. When Genesis says, “In the beginning…” I assume they are referring to the beginning of the creation of our own sphere of existence. Perhaps this creation of our own Heavenly Parents is limited to what we call the Milky Way Galaxy, or perhaps they have created several galaxies and populated them, as have the Gods that came before them. What portion of these creative spheres belongs to them and to Jesus Christ, we can only speculate, but they have promised many times that they will share all that they have with us when we learn to live as they have taught us.

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Randall
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Posts: 6270
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 22, 2011 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting.

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"Cooking is like love. It should be entered into with abandon or not at all." Harriet Van Horne

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luckyluva
Newflake

Posts: 10
From: Jupiter by way of Saturn.
Registered: Feb 2011

posted March 01, 2011 11:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for luckyluva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
very enlightening.

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 6270
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 02, 2011 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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