posted December 15, 2011 03:39 AM            

Astrology seemingly, is based entirely on arbitrary classifications that have no proof to their credibility.

Is it really a science? Is it something to be blindly believed? Because it all seems like a bunch of theories. It's spun spiritualism. None of what is known can be proven can it? It's all based on empirical evidence aka perception.  You can't prove what it is, because you have nothing to base further evidence upon EXCEPT your perception.

For example, in the beginning a few years ago when I decided to not blindly disprove astrology, I read about Signs and their ruling planets. And I am thinking, how do we know this is real? Can it be proven? For example, Lets look at Venus. Venus in astrology is the planet of love, beauty, friendship etc. And Taurus or Libra can't remember, is ruled by Venus. How do we know any of this is a fact? As far as I'm concerned what I do know is that Venus is the second closest planet to the sun. That's pretty much it. Where did these fanatical descriptions of these planets come from? Theorists? or that the constellation Capricorns ruling planet is Saturn. How do we know this? How do we know that Saturn is the planet of karma? Or time? Theorists? Where did these description develop from? How do we know the Moon and the constellation Cancer are linked? I do know that the moon plays significance in the animal kingdom and lunar phases and has some relation to procreation. That I know

So I'm curious here. I don't know where else to post this. How, did these things come to be? Astrology is fun but I find my doubting making its way back. Skepticism I think is called for, not to believe every single thing written especially with astrology. I also couldn't understand sometimes why people differentiate horoscopes and astrology. Because with astrology and I do find this to be a little problematic - the depth, or uniqueness of such placements in ones birth chart again are all theorized, the interpretations made? can literally be applied the the entire human race. That's what alarms and reminds me to go back to taking this theoretical playbook with a grain of salt.

What do you guys think? I feel awfully silly blaming planets etc and their alignment with the stars on behaviors. For example, Uranus conjunct mars = violence? I find that to be interesting but lots of violent people most likely don't have that placement in their charts. Isn't that interesting? It reminds me to not take this stuff so seriously, it's a bit why I prefer psychology most often than not.

posted December 15, 2011 04:20 AM            

Judging by your posts on this board, you have a lot to learn about astrology before you can claim the right to be a skeptic about it.

Most common reason for not understanding things is ignorance. Not skepticism.

Second most common reason for not understanding things is resistance. Not skepticism.

Have you ever watched a documentary of one of the (valid) skeptics of astrology? Have you seen the amount of research they have done, the amount of effort they have put in persuading the viewers that they are not just ignorant, or resistant to astrology?

To claim you are a skeptic you need to be able to talk about the subject in great depth and prove wrong some pretty experienced and wise people in this field.

posted December 15, 2011 04:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anongrl10:
To be a skeptic about anything, you need to have really delved into it, know it inside out, and still not feeling that it does it for you.

Judging by your posts on this board, you have a lot to learn about astrology before you can claim the right to be a skeptic about it.

Most common reason for not understanding things is ignorance. Not skepticism.

Second most common reason for not understanding things is resistance. Not skepticism.

Have you ever watched a documentary of one of the (valid) skeptics of astrology? Have you seen the amount of research they have done, the amount of effort they have put in persuading the viewers that they are not just ignorant, or resistant to astrology?

To claim you are a skeptic you need to be able to talk about the subject in great depth and prove wrong some pretty experienced and wise people in this field.

Are you sure you are there yet?

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posted December 15, 2011 04:31 AM            

It can't be a science because science has to be repeatable and should produce the same results everytime.

I can't go out and say all virgos are frustrating thats not repetable and always true, althought it whould seem that way sometimes.

A theory is someones explanation to a problem, its accepted until proven wrong.

posted December 15, 2011 04:35 AM            

I am smart enough to do my research, I still come to the conclusion of doubts.

For example no one has been able to prove Why 12 consellations have ruling planets. why does Saturn rule Capricorn?

I am not going to accept things so blindly, Thats actual one reason why I got into astrology to see the other side. I'm still learning and I don't claim to be so profound with my knowledge like most of you here do. but I also dont accept blindly these so called positions.

Majority of these placements can be applied to anyone. They really can.

Say for example, Chiron, "wound" Chiron in the 4th house cancer "suggests" not being taken care of in the family life, one thing that did stick out to me based on my reading and what self proclaimed Astrologers agree on is that this placement indicates sexual abuse. I found that to be alarming.

And this opens up so many different fuzziness. So since Astrologers formed this up, can I now state that say, serial killers who were sexually abused they'd have this placement too right?

I'm sure lots of people have hard family lives. I'm sure the description holds true for most people. Does that mean they have this placement? And where is the evidence suggesting Houses are real?

posted December 15, 2011 04:37 AM            

Astrology itself is not as much theory but mythology applied to planetary movement. It is part of the fabric of human understanding of holistic life in a solar system of planets and other heavenly bodies as interconnected life. It is a language for expressing this experience. There can be theories within linguistics, for example, but that doesn't mean a language itself is 'theory.' We use it too much. It is practical and workable. It is a tool. We wouldn't consider a tool to be 'theory,' but those overloaded with the abstract who are unable to really use astrology for material substantive benefit could start to doubt it - not for its actuality, but for its usefulness.

Science means study. Any systematic study in which Truth is pursued is a science.

posted December 15, 2011 04:39 AM            

They are constellations. Where did all these interpretations come from? How do we know asteroids have any effect on us? Can I theorize that the carpet rules the constellation Pisces? Where did these all come from? Planetary interpretations where did they evolve from ?

posted December 15, 2011 04:42 AM            

my purpose is to find the truth. The truth is skewed with astrology, despite how fun and spiritually evolving it can be. It raises concerns. Which leads me to be doubtful.

Is astrology any more different then horoscopes?
Is one more semantically involved than the other?

posted December 15, 2011 04:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
The notion that life 'begins' at a particular moment like 'first breath' is a theory, no matter how much general consensus there may seem to be to support it. It is presumed true because it is part of the inherited common sense.

Astrology itself is not as much theory but mythology applied to planetary movement. It is part of the fabric of human understanding of holistic life in a solar system of planets and other heavenly bodies as interconnected life. It is a language for expressing this experience. There can be theories within linguistics, for example, but that doesn't mean a language itself is 'theory.' We use it too much. It is practical and workable. It is a tool. We wouldn't consider a tool to be 'theory,' but those overloaded with the abstract who are unable to really use astrology for material substantive benefit could start to doubt it - not for its actuality, but for its usefulness.

Science means study. Any systematic study in which Truth is pursued is a science.

What you are really implying is one or both of these: (a) that astrology isn't truthful; (b) that it isn't useful. The remedy is to align yourself with Truth itself and follow your heart to only spend time on what genuinely interests you and proves useful for understanding self, others and life.

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very well-said

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*I use the whole sign system*

Personal Planets:
Sun, Mercury: Libra
Venus: Scorpio
Moon: Cancer
Mars: Capricorn

posted December 15, 2011 04:49 AM            

Other Ancient Civilizations confirmed astrological observations through their own experiences.

Hermeticists confirmed the Fire, Air, Water and Earth components through their meditative practices.

Beyond this, one can only understand Astrology as much as our positive karmas allow us to understand. It is a 4th Dimensional Subject, not easy to measure in a 3D reality with 3D instrumentation.

Ideally, one should study Astrology for a couple of years, examining transits and noting the observations in writing before forming a positive or negative conclusion about Astrology. Vedic Sages have warned of terrible karmic consequences for stating that Astrology is false to others after studying it, because this is an affront to the advanced Consciousness of the Planets.
This is why skeptics were never taught in the past, to prevent their future from being miserable.

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http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

posted December 15, 2011 04:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
Vedic Sages have warned of terrible karmic consequences for stating that Astrology is false to others after studying it, because this is an affront to the advanced Consciousness of the Planets.
This is why skeptics were never taught in the past, to prevent their future from being miserable.
Wow!!

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posted December 15, 2011 05:13 AM            

Why is Mars the planet of war? How does Pluto represent death and rebirth? Where do these interpretations come from. I'm really curious do any of you know? Does anyone here know? I would like to read upon it, and if it's true.

posted December 15, 2011 05:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Capriquarius:
It's an art and powered by intuition.

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."
-Albert Einstein

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astrology is an art? On what basis?

posted December 15, 2011 05:21 AM            

quote:

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Science means study. Any systematic study in which Truth is pursued is a science.

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and science, commonly can be observerd and tested by scientific method. something astrology doesn't seem to do. or does it?

posted December 15, 2011 05:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lindisfarne:
astrology is an art? On what basis?

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It imitates life. Isn't that what art does?

quote:

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How does intuition tie into wholly placing human traits onto planets?

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posted December 15, 2011 05:38 AM            

I wouldn't go as far as to say discriminate... prejudge? Something between prejudice and discrimination.

For example in Linda Goodmans book, Love signs. It's full of stereotypes based on perception. I've read astrology books but that has to be my least favorite.

posted December 15, 2011 05:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Capriquarius:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lindisfarne:
[b] astrology is an art? On what basis?

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It imitates life. Isn't that what art does?

quote:

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How does intuition tie into wholly placing human traits onto planets?

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Yes you said it's powered by intuition.
Astrology and these interpretations of heavenly bodies, are basically humanistic traits. Just placed innocently onto planets.

You just said that it was an art powered by intuition. Are you now saying the humanasitic interpretations of planets are not astrology?

Is it intuitive to say Saturn is a karmic planet? Is that art? I'm just asking. I'm curious to where that reasoning came from. I'm not judging you either just laying that out there.