posted September 17, 2012 08:58 AM            

I don't mind the other thread being derailed. Maybe we can make *peace* about old issues there.

But considering how important this topic is...I'm totally fine with there being two threads on it, yeah.

Exposure.

posted September 17, 2012 09:47 AM            

Honestly. I WISH I had your poise, your consideration for others, your phenomenal writing ability.

My big wish is for you to be able to see it, and be comfortable and happy with it.

Edited to add: One thing I'm learning, getting to be old like I am...it doesn't matter so much how other people react to you, it's just about checking in with yourself and making sure your intentions were good. If so, you can give yourself a break no matter what people say or do in response.

IMO

posted September 17, 2012 09:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I am always baffled that you don't seem to understand how incredible you are, Platero.

Honestly. I WISH I had your poise, your consideration for others, your phenomenal writing ability.

My big wish is for you to be able to see it, and be comfortable and happy with it.

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Thanks, Faith. That means a lot.

posted September 17, 2012 10:43 AM            

quote:

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Hitler's speech before the passing of the Enabling Act

In his speech before the Reichstag on March 23, 1933, just before the Enabling Act is passed, Adolf Hitler speaks out:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values. The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State. The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.[4]

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quote:

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The German word for an enabling act is Ermächtigungsgesetz. It usually refers to the enabling act of March 23, 1933, which became a cornerstone of Adolf Hitler's seizure of power.

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posted September 17, 2012 10:45 AM            

quote:

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The Reichskonkordat is the most controversial of several concordats agreed between various states and the Vatican during the reign of Pope Pius XI and is frequently discussed in works that deal with the rise of Hitler in the early 1930s and the Holocaust. The concordat has been described as giving moral legitimacy to the Nazi regime soon after Hitler had acquired dictatorial powers, and placing constraints on Catholic critics of the regime, leading to a muted response by the Church to Nazi policies.

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posted September 17, 2012 11:27 AM            

I'm not going to turn a blind eye to anyone threatening the annihilation of my people and the Holy Land. My Messiah was a Jew. I stand with the Jewish people, and there is absolutely no way anyone is going to convince me otherwise. If taking up arms is necessary, so be it.

Matthew 27:11 NIV

posted September 17, 2012 12:02 PM            

The whole Neocon sales pitch deserves closer scrutiny than that, especially if you are a Christian.

I wish you'd read the sermon.

Christianity has become synonymous with intellectual complacency and hard heartedness...why don't you prove them all wrong?

As usual...from one Cap Rabbit to another.

posted September 17, 2012 12:06 PM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 17, 2012 12:08 PM            

I'm not a Christian, but I've very much enjoyed Thomas Merton's essays on Christian contemplative living and pacifism.

It seems to have been scrubbed from the internet now (copyright issues?), but I highly recommend tracking down A Devout Meditation in Memory of Adolf Eichmann. It was the first essay of his that I read.

Edited to add: It ends thus:

quote:

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Even Christians can shake off their sentimental prejudices about charity, and become sane like Eichmann. They can even cling to a certain set of Christian formulas, and fit them into a Totalist Ideology. Let them talk about justice, charity, love, and the rest. These words have not stopped some sane men from acting very sanely and cleverly in the past.... No, Eichmann was sane. The generals and fighters on both sides, in World War II, the ones who carried out the total destruction of entire cities, these were the sane ones. Those who have invented and developed atomic bombs, thermonuclear bombs, missiles; who have planned the strategy of the next war; who have evaluated the various possibilities of using bacterial and chemical agents: these are not the crazy people, they are the sane people. The ones who coolly estimate how many millions of victims can he considered expendable in a nuclear war, I presume they do all right with the Rorschach ink blots too. On the other hand, you will probably find that the pacifists and the ban-the-bomb people are, quite seriously, just as we read in Time, a little crazy. I am beginning to realize that "sanity" is no longer a value or an end in itself. The "sanity" of modern man is about as useful to him as the huge bulk and muscles of the dinosaur. If he were a little less sane, a little more doubtful, a little more aware of his absurdities and contradictions, perhaps there might be a possibility of his survival. But if he is sane, too sane ... perhaps we must say that in a society like ours the worst insanity is to be totally without anxiety, totally "sane."

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posted September 17, 2012 01:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Ian,

The whole Neocon sales pitch deserves closer scrutiny than that, especially if you are a Christian.

I wish you'd read the sermon.

Christianity has become synonymous with intellectual complacency and hard heartedness...why don't you prove them all wrong?

As usual...from one Cap Rabbit to another.

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Faith,

I'm not a Neocon. I'm an old school Conservative, not some George HW Bush/George Bush/Mitt Romney/John McCain/John Boehner SOB lily-livered liberal. I'm not some gun toting NRA bozo either. Neither am I some blathering misguided Tea Party idiot. Like the Jamestown and Plymouth settlers, all I want is a peaceful, quiet existence where I am free to honor God and lead an honorable life in peaceful harmony in pursuit of happiness.

There are just 66 Books that govern what I follow, 39 of which are shared with my Jewish cousins. Other sermons are food for thought, and I never follow the teachings of any particular man. I only follow my Messiah. That is covered well in John 14:6 NIV. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Simple and to the point.

I don't care to prove any bozo preaching from the pulpit wrong. I am guided by my Messiah and only my Messiah.

I live in peace. Don't talk about killing my religion and my loved ones, and you are cool in my book. Talk about killing me and I'll put three rounds between your eyes. The code of the warrior is peaceful and respectful. True warriors adore peace, as well as wisdom, courage, benevolence, respect, honesty, diligence, filial piety and loyalty.

posted September 17, 2012 03:11 PM            

However does one go about killing a religion, I wonder? Please do inform me as it would be better for us all if whatever god forsaken excuse for a religion you're selling be wiped off the face of the planet.

"My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting, that I might not be delivered up to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

Simple and to the point. Fight for your earthly kingdoms if you must. Do so in the name of the Prince of Peace, and I will know what god you truly follow.

posted September 17, 2012 04:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by shura:
What a prickly little pear you are, YoursTruly. There's no honor to be found in your manifesto, much less wisdom. All I hear are frightened, self serving excuses for past behavior. Blood doesn't wash away so easily, my friend.

However does one go about killing a religion, I wonder? Please do inform me as it would be better for us all if whatever god forsaken excuse for a religion you're selling be wiped off the face of the planet.

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I'm no pear. I'm a cactus.

For the record.

posted September 17, 2012 04:25 PM            

I really hate to keep doing this, but this is exactly why guidelines are necessary.

I would also like for people to tone down their language towards those with whom they disagree, especially when it involves killing metaphors/violent metaphors. I understand people get passionate, and that's not always meant literally, and that almost everyone slips up and does it now and again when very angered, but please tone it down and bring the volume down a notch. Again, this is more of how something is said vs. what is said, and I would prefer that passion be expressed with different words from now on.

I will make you a deal: I will give people a chance to edit and fix these issues; if they are fixed, if people apologized, or if a respectful tone is resumed from here, I will leave this open. If not, I will think about closing.

posted September 17, 2012 04:50 PM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 17, 2012 04:54 PM            

Platero,

That is not name calling. That is extremism in a thread about not being an extremist.

posted September 17, 2012 05:11 PM            

Randall is right--neither viewpoint is really OK.