posted October 15, 2012 05:30 PM            

Vatican II, pffft!

Wooo! You know where I'm going! LOL!

I'm not so much aware of other religions mortal sins, but the whole concept just seems absurd anyhow... How do people deal with this?

The levels of fear and hysteria such could create is really quite unbecoming of a God.

posted October 15, 2012 06:15 PM            

I still feel the same.

Not of any fear but but because I know that Unity begins with the Creator and it ends with the creator. From S/he we came and to s/he we return.

posted October 15, 2012 06:30 PM            

What would militant Atheists like Richard Dawkins and HP Lovecraft's (who must surely be in Hell ) afterlife fate behold for them?

posted October 15, 2012 06:50 PM            

Intresting "Grave/Mortal" Matter:

quote:

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Divination, magic, and sorcery

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Thats pretty much ALL of Lindaland going to the furnaces!

posted October 16, 2012 08:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
complete rejection of God

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I'm wondering the same thing as LK. In addition, HOW does one "completely reject" God/dess?

In case it helps (I've noticed many people mistake their subjective reality for an "obvious" objective reality) I'm confused as I think of the multitude of ways one has to follow a single god even in a single religion (and even denomination), such as those ranging from the ultimate pacifist to the disturbingly homicidal (as in obligated and may feel guilt at NOT killing as their religious understanding demands, not as in "I was weak, may God/dess forgive me for having taken a life"). So it's hard for me to imagine a "complete rejection" in any tangible (as opposed to mental) way.

posted October 16, 2012 11:48 AM            

Defining "Rejecting God Completely" is between a rock and hard place, primarily because first you have to decide what ones definition of God is:

For example: If you are working from a supposition such as this;

If God is all powerful, all knowing, everywhere and in all things, then every single human act is that of "God" and therefore un-rejectable by its very nature...

That sort of situation then leans heavily into well... what about evil, is that an act of God too?

posted October 19, 2012 09:42 AM            

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First I thought about not replying to the question. Then I know you are asking in sincerity

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Well I can be very blunt, but I'm always sincere with such questions -nods-

I appreciate you standing by your beliefs and speaking your mind. It doesnt matter whether I agree with them or not, I'm simply interested in understanding the bigger picture more clearly (by that I mean the intricacy of religion(s))

I can only assume since your church/faith does accept that mortal sins exists, and that committing them (well one in your churches case) means there is a punishment for crossing that line...

quote:

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It is suicide. To reject self , created by God, is to reject God completely with no chance for redemption, grace, or forgiveness.

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If I'm reading that right and I feel I am, the result is eternal damnation without any hope of salvation

I just cannot reconcile that with a notion of a loving God as often preached by religions, it actually makes no logical sense to me...

For example: If the God in question is aware of X-amount of people in "Hell", wouldn't the ignoring of their infinite torment point towards a severe lack of empathy on his/its part. If God isn't aware of it, well then God is not all knowing, if God is not all knowing, then it isn't much of a God? See the paradox?

God is either not all knowing, or has little empathy, or both...?

What am I missing/not understanding?

posted October 19, 2012 04:58 PM            

Speaking purely hypothetically, it could work as an "as above, so below" thing (the basis of magic, and for that matter, astrology). So by destroying your body with an act of will you'd also destroy your "higher self" as well and thus be eternally destroyed.

Of course that opens a can of worms on self-sacrifice (such as dying for your country), martyrdom, and suicide when you're dead anyway you're just speeding up the process to end the pain or to prevent from bankrupting your family to pay for your life support while you exist as a vegetable.

posted October 19, 2012 07:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Speaking purely hypothetically, it could work as an "as above, so below" thing (the basis of magic, and for that matter, astrology). So by destroying your body with an act of will you'd also destroy your "higher self" as well and thus be eternally destroyed.

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Hmmmm...

Its murky business even in relation to what you are suggesting:

Its presupposes you are form of energy simply possessing a human construct, and is said energy coming from a "Higher/Different" level of reality!?

Even if that is true;

The simplest way I can show how this has a serious problem in relation to suicide (In the world of matter) is by using computer games as an analogy (**Cough** Holographic Universe Model **Cough**)

Taking an Avatar in World and Warcraft and consciously throwing it off a cliff has zero effect on real-world me while possessing it (much like the soul scenario). The effects are only felt in relation to the game world. The effects on my real world reality are ultimately non existent to that of the Avatars predicament.

In fact I could have done it for fun just to see what happens, and knowing full well in 5 mins Ill be resurrected and back in the game as per the rules of the system -nods-

The results are the same whether I done it consciously, or if I just accidentally fell of a cliff. The system simply cannot distinguish what my "Human motivations" were, nor does it care... it just simply IS. The rules of that closed system can punish the Avatar (WOW give you whats called resurrection sickness and damages your gear, and in Diablo III, it can permanently Kill your Avatar).

Yet here I am sitting pretty in "The Higher Reality" (In relation to WOW) and not giving two sh.its about it, and all is well

Anyhow... all of that is somewhat of a detour from Mortal Sins but as I was saying... murky business!

quote:

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Of course that opens a can of worms on self-sacrifice (such as dying for your country), martyrdom, and suicide when you're dead anyway you're just speeding up the process to end the pain or to prevent from bankrupting your family to pay for your life support while you exist as a vegetable.

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Yea I was going to bring this up eventually, its a serious problem in relation to the Mortal Sin issue; Its worth noting that nowhere in the Bible is it clear cut that Suicide is a Sin... not by my reckoning anyhow!

PS: Pix I saw that in the "Book of Revelations thread" you were trying to mail me, in case you didn't see my reply I did not get any mail from you if had done so. However such would have been my email-acc's fault, and Ive since corrected the problem

posted October 19, 2012 07:36 PM            

However, I COULD see one's psychic space having an effect...that is, if you're in utter despair and think even death won't solve it then you could enter into an afterlife in a plane of despair (think of it as an "astral vibration" that you'd be "attuned" to by your own emotional vibration)...doesn't mean you'd be stuck there, but it could be like trying to get out of a tar pit just as if you stayed alive to fight it (though maybe if you die there are more people who can competently help you...or hurt you, one never knows). OTOH if you were, in your last moments of lucidity as you drown in Alzheimer's, decide out of love to save your loved ones via suicide so they don't have to lose the house paying your medical bills then you could instead wind up in a plane of love. At least this scenerio makes more sense to me than suicide is a mortal sin.

And as a personal observation I've noticed that the powers that be (including religious) define things so that you're obligated to do as they say, but not for yourself (that is you belong to them not yourself). So if you die (or even rob, kill, etc) for them then you're a hero (and might even be condemned if you refuse to do these things on their behalf) and having sacrificed yourself for your shepherd you might even be made out to be a saint or have a parade in your honor, but if you do these exact same things for yourself instead of them then you're a villain (as the sticker goes, "Don't steal, the government hates competition"). Naturally I don't trust this sweet set up for the powers that be, be they political or religious.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
PS: Pix I saw that in the "Book of Revelations thread" you were trying to mail me, in case you didn't see my reply I did not get any mail from you if had done so. However such would have been my email-acc's fault, and Ive since corrected the problem

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I was going to send that Kiss Hank's Butt link to you privately but I couldn't figure out how so I posted it on the thread instead. Since I already posted it there's nothing for me to send. (I just asked for future reference.)

posted October 20, 2012 12:17 AM            

I prefer to refrain from using the more esoteric explanations in regards life after death, NDE, Suicides etc to explain how the Universe appears to operate when taking the rational approach in a Theist(s) themed thread

That being said, all I can say to you Pixie is that based on my own experience you are practically 100% correct, however such still remains almost completely indemonstrable and so I'm not sure where to go with it...

For my own piece of mind my experiences have been quite useful. I have in the past committed suicide (ofc I wasn't religious during that life either), and my reasoning for such was actually out of a combination of total Grief/Loss and Love. My beloved wife died and so I poisoned myself the same night (Much like Romeo lol). I went straight to her (My Wife) in whatever name you wish to give to the "afterlife", no damnation of any kind whatsoever... Just our Love

Ofc such did cause problems with other relationships I had established back on old Terra-Firma, but like I was saying with the Computer Game Model... Those issues are mostly just related to this semi-closed system, and the power to fix them is always in our own hands

Again I cant prove to you any of that, but in your case I sense its not necessary

Anyhow.. Mortal Sins!

Ive yet to see evidence that such exists, rationally or otherwise!