posted December 17, 2012 01:09 AM            

What is Evil?

Objective, or Subjective, what is the nature of Evil and how do you know it, and would "you" call evil..well..evil?

Not a difference of opinion, or some background stuff, or bad environment etc

posted December 17, 2012 03:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:

This has my mind moving a bit after a discussion with a younger female friend about the killer in Connecticut:

What is Evil?

Objective, or Subjective, what is the nature of Evil and how do you know it, and would "you" call evil..well..evil?

Not a difference of opinion, or some background stuff, or bad environment etc

What actions or thoughts constitute evil?

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"ἁμαρτία is the Greek word translated as "sin" in the New Testament. The word means "to miss the mark" or "to miss the target".

Sin is an English/Germanic word which is thought to mean "to be proven guilty".

Evil is another English word, which had a huge range of meanings from uppity, to unskillful, to exceeding boundaries, to extreme moral wickedness (the latter of these examples became the popular meaning only in modern English).

If one associates sin with evil, then I think it is important to consider the meaning of ἁμαρτία. In biblical terms, evil is the destructive result of repeatedly missing the point. When someone wrongs us and we react in the same spirit we have committed evil, because we have missed the point of the experience.

There seems to be a suggestion that living in a non evil way requires effort, concentration, practice, and care. It requires stopping before we act and like an archer, considering all the factors/conditions so we can act deliberately."

I feel evil is bread out of missing the point and when people are aware of the world around them, they reduce the risk of harming others. When two people endeavor to be aware, they further reduce that risk.

When it comes down to it, "bad" and "good" are relative and circumstantial. Whenever disconnection arises, hurt, misunderstanding, miscommunication, anger, etc.. all has the opportunity to follow.

In the case of the recent shooting, I don't think we have all the details, so I'm not sure I can make a good assumption about what caused that guy to rampage. I am willing to wager that his concept of "environment" and "others" missed the mark though.

posted December 17, 2012 03:26 AM            

There are many shades of gray between those, and I'd guess about 10% of the population are mostly Good and another 10 mostly Evil, and the vast majority more just selfish (which isn't necessarily evil) though they may have inclinations one way or another. Such selfish acts may result in deeds either Good or Evil but they're not actually motivated to do any such deeds beyond selfishness or convenience. For example, many don't lie because they want to be trusted and don't steal because they don't want to go to jail rather than any concern for strangers beyond that, while others may treat others badly (that is, act Evil) because it's expected and perhaps out of fear of being treated badly themselves if they don't join in with hurting others. But in both cases they're neither Good nor Evil because they're not driven to help or harm, they're just looking out for their own benefits and that of their loved ones.

In Nazi Germany the Good would risk a horrible fate by hiding Jews and others targeted by the state (however, this only counts for strangers, not loved ones) whereas the Evil would delight in such persecution and also wouldn't hesitate to falsely report others he didn't like (or was just in his way) as a Jew or hiding Jews ("that'll teach her to not go out with me!"), while the selfish majority would try to ignore what's going on and not aid in the persecution unless pressed by authorities (or otherwise the payoff was good enough, but even then they'd likely wrestle with what they did) but neither would they dare help those being persecuted either (and they'd pay lip service to the regime and its rhetoric, of course, but not because they actually believe in it in any passionate sense, but rather their own advancement and even survival depended on it).

I also have another category, btw, called "survival." The normal rules break down at this point. For example, a city plagued by rioting after a natural disaster. A Good person would try to give others seeking to join them in their shelter a benefit of a doubt (but much less of one than normal) and still sympathize with others even if he were to send strangers on their way as the risks of accepting them (perhaps to children) were too great, whereas a selfish person would have no problems sending them on their way but not feel inclined to actually harm strangers if they didn't have to (if nothing else, it might mean a waste of ammo to do so, and also possibly inspiring vengeance or legal action later) while someone Evil would delight in the opportunity to rob, rape, and pillage (which means the Good, to protect the innocent, has to be ready to kill, and while regrettable it's still preferable to the alternative, much like it's regrettable to amputate a gangrenous limb but better than the alternative). On a lesser scale, a Good person who is starving (or knows others who are starving) with no alternative may resort to theft (ditto for lifesaving medications), but a Good person would only contemplate such an act when it's about survival AND would take pains to avoid harming those who had helped him or her, choosing who they stole from carefully.

There's also such a thing as insanity, and I mean true insanity, for example the mother who drowns her kids because she's having a psychotic episode and has lost the ability to understand what she's doing or to feel empathy and sincerely believes this is the only way to save them (as opposed to a mother who kills her kids to collect insurance or get her man, as has been known to happen).

Perhaps Adam Lanza was insane, I don't know. If he wasn't psychotic then I'd have to go with Evil, and a particularly toxic Evil at that, with a desire to hurt as many people as possible (not just those he killed, but in an attempt to harm everyone who heard of it, to feel fear every time they sent their kids to school, etc, that is his target wasn't just those kids, it was everyone in the USA).

posted December 17, 2012 03:45 AM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted December 17, 2012 11:33 AM            

So from that perspective you have a choice, eradicate all Evil/Duality and return to nothingness, or accept it as part of the dualistic nature of the Universe and just do our best to view Evil as not how it has harmed you, but what it has taught you. In that way... even the most vile Evil has some good in it.

As you said yourself...

quote:

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This has my mind moving a bit after a discussion with a younger female friend about the killer in Connecticut:

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Too bad that as humans we often need the most unbelievable sh!t to happen before we even think about trying to make things better.

posted December 17, 2012 06:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
What actions or thoughts constitute evil?

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Those which drastically go against the benefit of other humans and/or their environment.

The rest has been said already really well in prior posts.

Oh and I love this ...

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Tao, the First Principle. Contrast is needed to create a distinguishable reality, without which we would experience nothingness.

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Also, FWIW I don't think the Connecticut killer was evil per se. I think he was his own victim ... most likely because of a genetic mutation.

All humans have a genetic pre-disposition toward goodness which has been found to be inherent in children as young as 4 years of age (age group tested). Presumably there are genes that correspond to this behavior.

For example, there's been a gene found to be responsible for charity and philanthropy in humans. It follows that a mutation in such a gene (even in one copy of it ... as every gene has two copies) would cause an individual to act in ways that are not charitable toward others.

The more I think about people who are perpetrating these killings, the more I think that mutations in their DNA are responsible. It goes beyond psychology (which is merely an outward symptom), or their environment and upbringing ... it goes to the level of their genetics.

And although I'm in favor of gun control as a general way to curb gun-related violence, I do not think gun control will help in these types of killings. Because the killers will find another way to perpetrate the same extent of violence on others, without using guns.

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~ I have a DO NOT DISTURB sign on my imagination ... because I want to frustrate the twins ... Convention and Dogma

~ The moment I cease to seek the truth, or settle for the truth in the moment ... that is the moment I cease to be a seeker, and become a fundamentalist instead.

~ The truest acts of charity are never disclosed ... they remain a secret between Man, the doer and God.
Because Man knows that each charitable act is an opportunity for him to revel in God just as God avails of His chance to revel in Man through every act of charity.
For them both to continue to rejoice in each other, Man knows he cannot allow worldly accolades to distract him. So he continues to act in kindness ... secretly.

posted December 17, 2012 08:33 PM            

quote:

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I think he was his own victim

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I was reading something on another forum earlier today where someone went to the trouble of listing all of the recent shootings of a similar nature, and in 90% of the case the shooter(s) were on various meds, that almost all have psychotic/suicidal effects.

I do not know all of the details of this incident but I'm willing to bet he was on similar meds, which were used to mask physiological problems that need to be dealt with in healthier ways... Often these quick fix solutions leads to these dire situations.

Gun Control would be nothing but a band-aid on a wound that has Gangrene. Its the mental welfare component that needs to be looked at more closely, and getting these kids off of psychotic meds.

posted December 18, 2012 01:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Also, FWIW I don't think the Connecticut killer was evil per se. I think he was his own victim ... most likely because of a genetic mutation.

All humans have a genetic pre-disposition toward goodness which has been found to be inherent in children as young as 4 years of age (age group tested). Presumably there are genes that correspond to this behavior.

For example, there's been a gene found to be responsible for charity and philanthropy in humans. It follows that a mutation in such a gene (even in one copy of it ... as every gene has two copies) would cause an individual to act in ways that are not charitable toward others.

The more I think about people who are perpetrating these killings, the more I think that mutations in their DNA are responsible. It goes beyond psychology (which is merely an outward symptom), or their environment and upbringing ... it goes to the level of their genetics.

And although I'm in favor of gun control as a general way to curb gun-related violence, I do not think gun control will help in these types of killings. Because the killers will find another way to perpetrate the same extent of violence on others, without using guns.

.

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I tend to agree with LJ here and need to modify my statement in LLC2 re the face of evil.

What Lanza did was evil but that does not make him evil.

Evil exists yet how it`s defined is a perception of each individual. The Reality of evil is something, I believe, is beyond the human capacity to understand or...
too horrifying to comprehend.

Shura said much the same thing about the DNA mutating (she expanded greatly on it and was very informative)and since pondering it, it sounds likely and plausable.

Also, I am in favor of a gun control as well. Yet sadly, this will not stop the psychotic break downs and resulting deeds

Unrelated, what the heck is "FWIW"?

posted December 18, 2012 02:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Unrelated, what the heck is "FWIW"?

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LOL Juni! It stands for ...For What It's Worth.

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------------------
~ I have a DO NOT DISTURB sign on my imagination ... because I want to frustrate the twins ... Convention and Dogma

~ The moment I cease to seek the truth, or settle for the truth in the moment ... that is the moment I cease to be a seeker, and become a fundamentalist instead.

~ The truest acts of charity are never disclosed ... they remain a secret between Man, the doer and God.
Because Man knows that each charitable act is an opportunity for him to revel in God just as God avails of His chance to revel in Man through every act of charity.
For them both to continue to rejoice in each other, Man knows he cannot allow worldly accolades to distract him. So he continues to act in kindness ... secretly.

posted December 18, 2012 03:23 PM            

But if it's an old thread and you'll need to spend time hunting it down, then don't worry about it, ok? It's not worth spending too much time on.

.

.

------------------
~ I have a DO NOT DISTURB sign on my imagination ... because I want to frustrate the twins ... Convention and Dogma

~ The moment I cease to seek the truth, or settle for the truth in the moment ... that is the moment I cease to be a seeker, and become a fundamentalist instead.

~ The truest acts of charity are never disclosed ... they remain a secret between Man, the doer and God.
Because Man knows that each charitable act is an opportunity for him to revel in God just as God avails of His chance to revel in Man through every act of charity.
For them both to continue to rejoice in each other, Man knows he cannot allow worldly accolades to distract him. So he continues to act in kindness ... secretly.

posted December 18, 2012 03:49 PM            

I think I would say that at its core, evil is simply the lack of empathy. Empathy is such a crucial component of what makes us human and it allows us to relate to others. When empathy vanishes, or in the case of psychopathy has never existed, then I suppose I would call that the energy people associate with the word 'evil'.

posted December 18, 2012 04:25 PM            

oh! and duh re FWIW

posted December 23, 2012 02:31 PM            

Yes. Our culture is a petri dish, evil flourishes within and without.

"Shura said much the same thing about the DNA mutating (she expanded greatly on it and was very informative)and since pondering it, it sounds likely and plausable."

I love it when you sweet talk me behind my back.