posted February 02, 2013 08:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
The other thing you guys may consider is this. Why are the Bible threads so popular? People KNOW Jesus is the way, but it is down deep. That is where all the hostility comes from

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posted February 02, 2013 08:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Even people saying, "Jesus Christ" as a swear. Do they ever say "Buddha"

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And stop crucifying in effigies the loving teacher every day in voodoo like fashion.
He has endured that torture of soul far too long.
That is not loving.
What a terrible thing to do to another.
How would you like to be nailed down and tortured in effigies for thousands of years?
And have millions of people whining at you?
And even begging you to help destroy others who do not believe as you do?
It just makes no sense and is just evil.

posted February 02, 2013 08:57 AM            

quote:

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just because some ancient drunken self proclaimed prophet claimed to talk to God.

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Just to say, Mystics, as many were who wrote the Holy Texts, use "drunken" to mean filled fith the Spirit of God. It is one of the mulittudes of literalism errors of Bible thumping folks and debunkers .

posted February 02, 2013 09:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Just to say, Mystics, as many were who wrote the Holy Texts, use "drunken" to mean filled fith the Spirit of God. It is one of the mulittudes of literalism errors of Bible thumping folks and debunkers .

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Lol about drunken

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 02, 2013 09:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Even people saying, "Jesus Christ" as a swear. Do they ever say "Buddha"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lexxigramer:
Well that certainly is not very nice or respectful is it?
People use God to swear too, and damn things.
More respect it seems is for Buddha.

And stop crucifying in effigies the loving teacher every day in voodoo like fashion.
He has endured that torture of soul far too long.
That is not loving.
What a terrible thing to do to another.
How would you like to be nailed down and tortured in effigies for thousands of years?
And have millions of people whining at you?
And even begging you to help destroy others who do not believe as you do?
It just makes no sense and is just evil.

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Lexx
Your thinking is really distorted.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 03, 2013 06:48 PM            

I have an honest question for you because although I don't contribute overly much to the Divine Diversities threads, I do read them occasionally. I'm trying to understand where you are coming from Christianity-wise.

I know that you believe that your beliefs are the correct ones and that those who do not believe what the bible says are in error or just plain wrong. I also get the impression that you think that sects of Christianity different from your own are also misinformed. Again, that's an impression, not a fact. You'll have to tell me if that observation is correct or not.

So my question to you is this: If you and another Christian woman (all things being more or less equal) believed the same things about the bible being 100% truth but you disagreed about the interpretation of, say, the prophecy of the end times (ie - when it would happen or maybe the way it would happen), which one of you would be right and which one would be wrong?

And if you believe you are the one who is right, how do you come to this conclusion?

posted February 03, 2013 07:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Lexx
Your thinking is really distorted.

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posted February 03, 2013 07:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Just to say, Mystics, as many were who wrote the Holy Texts, use "drunken" to mean filled fith the Spirit of God. It is one of the mulittudes of literalism errors of Bible thumping folks and debunkers .

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If it pleases you;
I shall endeavor to say they were possibly drunken or insane or delusional
but not for certain.

No way to really know is there?

Also much of the things in the so called holy texts are nasty and not what I can see as messages coming from a loving god.

posted February 04, 2013 07:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:
Ami Anne,

I have an honest question for you because although I don't contribute overly much to the Divine Diversities threads, I do read them occasionally. I'm trying to understand where you are coming from Christianity-wise.

I know that you believe that your beliefs are the correct ones and that those who do not believe what the bible says are in error or just plain wrong. I also get the impression that you think that sects of Christianity different from your own are also misinformed. Again, that's an impression, not a fact. You'll have to tell me if that observation is correct or not.

So my question to you is this: If you and another Christian woman (all things being more or less equal) believed the same things about the bible being 100% truth but you disagreed about the interpretation of, say, the prophecy of the end times (ie - when it would happen or maybe the way it would happen), which one of you would be right and which one would be wrong?

And if you believe you are the one who is right, how do you come to this conclusion?

I am trying to get a handle on some of your comments on the board.

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Sure. I have studied Bible Prophecy for over 20 years. Most things are self evident. Israel is Israel. The Jews are the Jews. Syria is Syria. Damascus is Damascus etc etc. For people to go way out on crazy tangents and say it is Damascus, Arkansas is just plain dumb and I won't bother with that conversation, but I am here for legitimate questions, like yours.

I will say that with the Double Fufillment Prophecies, I would need to really study to teach about those but for the SINGLE Fufillment ones like Damascus will be rubble, I can tell you with 100% certainty it will happen. The Bible is, always, 100% true.

As to people who differ, true Christians do not differ that much. Where people get way out is if they want to throw out the Jews or Israel and BE the Jews. Many cults want to do this, as does Replacement Theology which is in many of the denominations. You have to deal with what the Bible says as if it is saying it straight out and not try to make it say what your agenda wants, which is usually hatred of Israel and the Jews. Some think the Rapture will come at different times or things like that but the general road map of prophecy is agreed by all true Bible believing Christians in it's basic tenets.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 04, 2013 08:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Just to say, Mystics, as many were who wrote the Holy Texts, use "drunken" to mean filled fith the Spirit of God. It is one of the mulittudes of literalism errors of Bible thumping folks and debunkers .

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lexxigramer:
Yes it can mean that.
However there are references to some being actually drunken.
Additionally with the popularity of wine;
I seriously feel many were indeed drunk with wine even if possibly drunken spiritually.

If it pleases you;
I shall endeavor to say they were possibly drunken or insane or delusional
but not for certain.

No way to really know is there?

Also much of the things in the so called holy texts are nasty and not what I can see as messages coming from a loving god.

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It delights me to find your mind open to the mysteries in metaphors of Mysticism in the Holy Texts.

The Sufi metaphor of intoxication as a spiritual state is partly figurative but partly literal. Intoxication is a metaphor for madness, and madness is a metaphor for the spirit's condition, or transformation, or unfolding into reality, in the presence of the Divine. But amazingly, where poetry and music are involved, intoxication is not only a poetic figure, but is also a literal condition of the body as well as the mind. Poetry's music and imagery affect the body and the mind -- the exterior and interior -- alike, as if they were the same thing.

This is exactly what Sufism, and indeed all the mystical traditions (or all that are not strictly gnostic, let's say), seek to reveal: that the cosmos is a unified whole, one, or One. The music of poetry and the images and metaphors of poetry intoxicate the body and mind -- together they change the state of outer and inner awareness of the hearer. Poetry affects the whole human being. It's not surprising that Sufis place so much emphasis on music and poetry in their Way to reunion with the Divine.

Therefore, wine is : Intoxication: Ecstasy, Teachings

posted February 04, 2013 09:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
It delights me to find your mind open to the mysteries in metaphors of Mysticism in the Holy Texts.

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quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:

The Sufi metaphor of intoxication as a spiritual state is partly figurative but partly literal. Intoxication is a metaphor for madness, and madness is a metaphor for the spirit's condition, or transformation, or unfolding into reality, in the presence of the Divine. But amazingly, where poetry and music are involved, intoxication is not only a poetic figure, but is also a literal condition of the body as well as the mind. Poetry's music and imagery affect the body and the mind -- the exterior and interior -- alike, as if they were the same thing.

This is exactly what Sufism, and indeed all the mystical traditions (or all that are not strictly gnostic, let's say), seek to reveal: that the cosmos is a unified whole, one, or One. The music of poetry and the images and metaphors of poetry intoxicate the body and mind -- together they change the state of outer and inner awareness of the hearer. Poetry affects the whole human being. It's not surprising that Sufis place so much emphasis on music and poetry in their Way to reunion with the Divine.

Therefore, wine is : Intoxication: Ecstasy, Teachings

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posted February 04, 2013 02:34 PM            

If there were more open minds and hearts , extremeism/fundamentalism would be dead and buried.

posted February 04, 2013 02:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:

If there were more open minds and hearts , extremeism/fundamentalism would be dead and buried.

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posted February 04, 2013 03:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

Sure. I have studied Bible Prophecy for over 20 years. Most things are self evident. Israel is Israel. The Jews are the Jews. Syria is Syria. Damascus is Damascus etc etc. For people to go way out on crazy tangents and say it is Damascus, Arkansas is just plain dumb and I won't bother with that conversation, but I am here for legitimate questions, like yours.

I will say that with the Double Fufillment Prophecies, I would need to really study to teach about those but for the SINGLE Fufillment ones like Damascus will be rubble, I can tell you with 100% certainty it will happen. The Bible is, always, 100% true.

As to people who differ, true Christians do not differ that much. Where people get way out is if they want to throw out the Jews or Israel and BE the Jews. Many cults want to do this, as does Replacement Theology which is in many of the denominations. You have to deal with what the Bible says as if it is saying it straight out and not try to make it say what your agenda wants, which is usually hatred of Israel and the Jews. Some think the Rapture will come at different times or things like that but the general road map of prophecy is agreed by all true Bible believing Christians in it's basic tenets.

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Thanks for your reply Ami, although I don't feel that I got an answer to my question. Let me rephrase. Take out the specifics (Damascus, Israel, Jews) for a moment.

You and another person both believe that the bible is 100% true, you go to the same church, etc. But there are a few points that you interpret differently. My question is simply this: who is right and who is wrong? And why? Who is the 'true Christian' as you put it?

posted February 04, 2013 03:43 PM            

However, a true Christian will believe in certain things, without fail. Jesus is the propitiation for one's sins. You accept His gift to you of salvation for your sins. Then, you are reconciled to God, as you are no longer a "sinner". You are "clean" and can go into God's presence. This is all you really need to be a "true Christian". Men can and do argue about other things.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 04, 2013 03:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:

If there were more open minds and hearts , extremeism/fundamentalism would be dead and buried.

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Here I disagree, fundamentalism SHOULD mean an open heart and mind, however it does not also mean being a speed bump and believing nothing at all.

Somehow, (suspect it is personal power gathering) Compassion and Christianity are now seen as mutually exclusive states of existance.

This, imo, is a corruption of Christ's vision for mankind.

To my view, and in my studies, a fundamentalist can utterly disagree with someone, and yet still offer the very shirt off their back if the person they disagree with needs a shirt.

That sort of spirit has been lost in a tide of "end of the world/ya gonna burn in hell/I will preach at you" mindsets.

posted February 04, 2013 04:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
padre do note I tied extremism and basic fundalmentalist together. This does not count for the shirt off their back types. Using both words ( I thought) would get the picture across.

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I apologize for not understanding your thoughts on that juniperb.

For me, I've quietly listened to more end of the world/prophecy teaching then I'd care to recount.

IMO, Christians would do well to take to heart the Buddhist teaching of being in the moment first and foremost

posted February 04, 2013 04:38 PM            

quote:

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For me, I've quietly listened to more end of the world/prophecy teaching then I'd care to recount.

IMO, Christians would do well to take to heart the Buddhist teaching of being in the moment first and foremost

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Amen Brother!!

I

posted February 04, 2013 05:20 PM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 04, 2013 05:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Amen Brother!!

I

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And to you Sister!

"..4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

posted February 04, 2013 05:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Ok, on little things, there are differences and both are the "true Christians" By little things, I will give an example. Most Christians believe in the Rapture. Some believe it will be at one point in time. Others think it will be at another. A third think it will be at another.

However, a true Christian will believe in certain things, without fail. Jesus is the propitiation for one's sins. You accept His gift to you of salvation for your sins. Then, you are reconciled to God, as you are no longer a "sinner". You are "clean" and can go into God's presence. This is all you really need to be a "true Christian". Men can and do argue about other things.

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posted February 04, 2013 05:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:
Ok, close enough. Thanks for answering

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My pleasure!

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 04, 2013 10:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:

For me, I've quietly listened to more end of the world/prophecy teaching then I'd care to recount.

IMO, Christians would do well to take to heart the Buddhist teaching of being in the moment first and foremost

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posted February 04, 2013 10:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:

For me, I've quietly listened to more end of the world/prophecy teaching then I'd care to recount.

IMO, Christians would do well to take to heart the Buddhist teaching of being in the moment first and foremost

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lexxigramer:
I hear you.
Love is the key;
not wishing for an apocalypse.

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Same here, an Apocalypse..or an unveiling shall come..Heaven and Mankind are aligned for it..

I'd prefer it not come, however as you well know "Maranatha"