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Author Topic:   What Did Pope Francis Say?
juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted May 26, 2013 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are some religious sites in an uproar over Pope Francis`s homily.


Pope Francis has sparked a religious debate with comments made earlier this week confirming atheists can indeed go to heaven.

Christian teaching generally holds that belief in Jesus, and not good deeds, grants eternal life


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/24/pope-francis-suggests-atheists-good-deeds-gets-the/#ixzz2UOxSVnYz

To clarify his message, lets look at the homily and see for our selves (and Church`s response).

Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics


The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

with this understanding by the Church:

Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html

Two articles and others on the web to read.

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

This is 100% against the Bible. It is quite amazing in light of him being the "black pope"

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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Furthermore, the church of the last days will have no strictures. Everyone, doing everything and anything, is welcome.

There will not be the "rules" and "laws" of the traditional Bible believing churches or even the Catholic Church, which is considered to be the biggest cult but that is another story for another day. I can only slay so many dragons at a time

However, the point I was trying to make is that the last days church will include everyone with no rules. This is it!

I know people will say it is great but it is classic Bible Prophecy, Friends( just like Syria)

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Padre35
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posted May 26, 2013 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I tend to agree AA, can understand why he'd say this, the basis however is non existent.

The Bible does speak of knowing their master's will and not doing it, and not knowing it and the results, however that is a massive stretch.

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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:

I tend to agree AA, can understand why he'd say this, the basis however is non existent.

The Bible does speak of knowing their master's will and not doing it, and not knowing it and the results, however that is a massive stretch.



Massive, Padre

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jellyfishtry
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posted May 26, 2013 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jellyfishtry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you JuniperB and sorry such a loving message and thing you shared is already being trashed by very hateful 'theologists' 'thoughts' lol...

Thank God someone like Pope Francisco has the guts to say some 'facts of life' without caring about future hecklers hehe....

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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jellyfishtry:
Thank you JuniperB and sorry such a loving message and thing you shared is already being trashed by very hateful 'theologists' 'thoughts' lol...

Thank God someone like Pope Francisco has the guts to say some 'facts of life' without caring about future hecklers hehe....


I wonder which church YOU are gonna be in. Three guess. First two don't count

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juniperb
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posted May 26, 2013 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree Christ "died" for all of humanity.
In that sense, all can be redeemed.

But Christianity teachs us we must accept the Christ as our personal Saviour. There in lies the rub imo.

Rom m 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


To bypass this is to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I see the Pontiffs attempt at Unity and attempting to heal the divisions in humanity but Christians are going to have a difficult time with this.

An atheist can do good works, live a humble relatively sinless life . I say sinless because atheists simply have no belief in God and that does not break the Mosaic Law.

You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Read more: http://www.bible-knowledge.com/10-commandments/#ixzz2UPNJiMez

No God no Christ. Christianity does not allow that for Salvation.

Are the good folks ,like the mentioned atheists, living as if the Christ Spirit dwells in them rather they accepted him or not heaven bound along with the believers in Christ ...

Or they not sinless in the strictest Christian sense.

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jellyfishtry
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posted May 26, 2013 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jellyfishtry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
I agree Christ "died" for all of humanity.
In that sense, [b]all
can be redeemed.

But Christianity teachs us we must accept the Christ as our personal Saviour. There in lies the rub imo.

Rom m 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


To bypass this is to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I see the Pontiffs attempt at Unity and attempting to heal the divisions in humanity but Christians are going to have a difficult time with this.

An atheist can do good works, live a humble relatively sinless life . I say sinless because atheists simply have no belief in God and that does not break the Mosaic Law.

You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Read more: http://www.bible-knowledge.com/10-commandments/#ixzz2UPNJiMez

No God no Christ. Christianity does not allow that for Salvation.

Are the good folks ,like the mentioned atheists, living as if the Christ Spirit dwells in them rather they accepted him or not heaven bound along with the believers in Christ ...

Or they not sinless in the strictest Christian sense.

[/B]



True, but i think he's a very smart man who knows what he's doing...usually pointing fingers will cause more fingers pointed back, or someone to walk away in the best case scenario.....

opening one's arms, will cause the other to come near as they know there is a place for them, and then they can really start to talk.

lol it's good he said what he did

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PixieJane
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posted May 26, 2013 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's nice and all, but I'm certain that the vast majority of atheists would rather he tackle the problems of the church (like pedophile priests) and respecting secular government (no antigay laws and amendments for example) than saying, "You'll be in heaven with the rest of us." Those of us who aren't Catholic (atheist and otherwise) couldn't care less what a pope says & does beyond that, and contrary to popular misconception by the religious, most atheists also don't concern themselves with the afterlife.

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Lexxigramer
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posted May 26, 2013 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lexxigramer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many atheists do believe in, or theorize an afterlife but not with heaven and deities and all that other crap.

It was just kind of nice to see a Pope not preach hellfire and damnation for non Christians;
and to see him not say crap like Christians are allowed to murder and do horrible things and still have lily white souls....unlike one person here who preaches such evil yet insults a pope for trying to be kind.

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Padre35
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posted May 26, 2013 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
That's nice and all, but I'm certain that the vast majority of atheists would rather he tackle the problems of the church (like pedophile priests) and respecting secular government (no antigay laws and amendments for example) than saying, "You'll be in heaven with the rest of us." Those of us who aren't Catholic (atheist and otherwise) couldn't care less what a pope says & does beyond that, and contrary to popular misconception by the religious, most atheists also don't concern themselves with the afterlife.

Exactly, which is why he shouldn't have bothered, now his own Church will be unhappy with him, and those who did not like the RC to begin with won't be mollified.

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PixieJane
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posted May 26, 2013 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lexxigramer:
Many atheists do believe in, or theorize an afterlife but not with heaven and deities and all that other crap.

So if I went to an atheist convention and asked them what I think happens after we die, what would many of them say?

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Lexxigramer
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posted May 26, 2013 05:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lexxigramer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Furthermore, the church of the last days will have no strictures. Everyone, doing everything and anything, is welcome.

There will not be the "rules" and "laws" of the traditional Bible believing churches or even the Catholic Church, which is considered to be the biggest cult but that is another story for another day. I can only slay so many dragons at a time

However, the point I was trying to make is that the last days church will include everyone with no rules. This is it!

I know people will say it is great but it is classic Bible Prophecy, Friends( just like Syria)


Oh like the you can do whatever you want crap you preach?
That kind of free for all?
Sounds like a perfect world for you to get your jollies so you can do all the bad things you say is A-OK for you with your pure lily white soul to do.
The teachings of your self proclaimed lily white soul and its message of total
lack of limits/anything is allowed no matter how horrible.
quote:
Originally posted by Ami:
a person who has accepted Jesus as personal savior and lord can do ANYTHING and not break the law. That person can kill, steal, do terrorism, hate, rape etc and still have God’s grace. Your eyebrows raise. You want to throw tomatoes at me but let me explain. In the NT Dispensation, Jesus has borne all our sins. That means that anything I do is forgiven by God. I can kill a hundred people with a machine gun and still be forgiven. I can hate and act like Hitler and still be forgiven. In fact, God will never cast me out for my actions. Man will punish me. However, Jesus sacrifice made me clean, holy and pure in God’s eyes.
So the end times world you speak of with no rules is a perfect world governed clearly by your teaching quoted here. And I see you are still acting like you will die of extreme thrilling ecstasy if Syria and other places get destroyed. You are practically drooling over the concept of such horrors. Your desire and love for death and destruction and statements that you can do as you wish no matter how evil, is truly disturbing and hateful thinking.

To love and peace for all humanity not the world of Ami's preaching and desires.


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Lexxigramer
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posted May 26, 2013 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lexxigramer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
So if I went to an atheist convention and asked them what I think happens after we die, what would many of them say?


I have no idea. I am basically an atheist, and known/know many.....some say when you're dead you're dead;
others say maybe something some energy goes on...but key here is no god or religious crap
involved, just theory of a possible science based thing.

PS.
If the atheists were at an atheists convention, by that token they would be like a church meeting, like a religious gathering and therefore be very "fundie" lol; type of atheists, with very much a strict concept of when you die you go poof.

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shura
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posted May 26, 2013 06:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
Exactly, which is why he shouldn't have bothered, now his own Church will be unhappy with him, and those who did not like the RC to begin with won't be mollified.


is it better to play politics or to speak truth?

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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the last days, there will be a church where everything will go. There will be all sects, all faiths and atheists. It seems like Pope Francis will be the head of it

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Padre35
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posted May 26, 2013 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shura:
is it better to play politics or to speak truth?

The church that claims Christ founded really should not then toss him overboard later on.

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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
The church that claims Christ founded really should not then toss him overboard later on.


The Catholic Church is not a Bible based church. The Catholic Bible is a different Bible. Peter and the "rock" meant Jesus and not the Catholic church


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Padre35
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posted May 26, 2013 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
The catholic Church is not a Bible based church. The Catholic Bible is a different Bible. Peter and the "rock" meant Jesus and not the Catholic church



Oh sure, I prefer the Douay Rheims to the KJV as a point of fact, it has the Apocrapha and is put together in a more readable fashion.

However, that is the RC's claim, disputed by the Orthodox of course.

Either way, will be interesting to monitor how all of this plays out, I personally like his history.

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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I told you guys Francis was the False Prophet. Was I right or what?

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Padre35
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posted May 26, 2013 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I told you guys Francis was the False Prophet. Was I right or what?


The "or what" portion AA, the false prophet is going to work for the anti christ and magnify him/it.

Pope Francis is hinting at universalism, and he is far from the firs to do so.

This is where one's fetish for Revelations leads one astray imo.

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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 08:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
The "or what" portion AA, the false prophet is going to work for the anti christ and magnify him/it.

Pope Francis is hinting at universalism, and he is far from the firs to do so.

This is where one's fetish for Revelations leads one astray imo.



Well, you have to look at the Church of Laodecia .It is rich beyond measure and is dressed in purple and red. God tells people to come out of her. It is clearly the catholic Church.

Then one must study the ***** of Revelation.She is identified by the city which sits on 7 hills. That is Rome. the False Prophet will be the head of this universal church. Putting all this together, the head of the universal church will be a pope.

Have you ever studied Prophecy, Padre?

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Padre35
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posted May 26, 2013 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Missing a few things there AA, like the Temple being rebuilt, the fact Constantinople is also on 7 hills, one world currency etc etc.

He also said it is impossible to know Jesus apart from the RC etc.

So let me pose the question to you AA, have you studied prophecy? Things such as Ezekiel or the last Chapters of Isaiah?

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Ami Anne
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posted May 26, 2013 09:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He also said it is impossible to know Jesus apart from the RC etc.

The Rock is Jesus, not the Catholic Church.

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