posted June 03, 2013 03:58 AM            

1. We start with Genesis.

GE 1:3-5: On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19: The Sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day

The above proves that the Bible was written by people who were not aware of the Sun's Light affecting Plant life through Photosynthesis, nor capable of understanding that the Sun has to form first before Planetary Bodies are formed. These are people who thought of the Sun as a mere lamp or decoration in the Sky.

2. The Biblical God is not Omniscient despite the claim of knowing everything.

GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

3. Psychopathic Characteristics:
GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God deals with death.

4. The Nephilim are not clearly explained.
GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.

5. Incest not condemned by Biblical God.
=====================================
GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."

The above verses are the inspiration for many otherwise religious Christian people who succumb to child sexual abuse, and especially the hundreds of abusive Christian Catholic Priests who consider the boys in their care as their own children.

6. Origin of Evil: Biblical God assumes responsibility.
EX 34:6-7, JS 24:19, 1CH 16:34 God is faithful, holy and good.
IS 45:6-7, AM 3:6 God is responsible for evil.

7. Is Satan the Biblical God? According to these verses the answer is yes.
a)
2SA 24:1 The Lord inspired David to take the census.
1CH 21:1 Satan inspired the census.

b)1CO 8:4 There is only one God.
2CO 4:4 Satan is God of this world (therefore there are at least two gods).

As far as Philosophy/Metaphysics goes, the Creator God of the Universe cannot be ignorant of science, wicked, evil, psychopathic and certainly not Satanic.

Therefore, the Biblical God [of the Old Testament] is not "God". WHo is He then? Could it just be a collection of very smart Hebrew Priests who were putting together a psychological campaign of fear for establishing a Hebrew Empire? To get more political space, they needed motivated warriors and the cooked up legends of a terrible God better than Pagan gods was the best motivational technique possible. It got results and they were very successful for hundreds of years.

There is also evidence of heart rending atrocities against humanity in the Old Testament, this will be listed in another thread to discuss how a Universal, Loving God as claimed by Evangelists could command gruesome human rights abuses which would have led to International Criminal Cases in the modern age.

posted June 03, 2013 04:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by iQ:
Thanks Lexx. It has been a few years since I left this topic, but I feel inspired now to re-look. The Tree of Spiritual Thinking must be replenished regularly by the expose of fundamentalist religions. If we stay complacent, the "Invading Dark Consciousness" can program minions to sabotage years of good work. We, the Humans, we are Divine. We must assert our Divinity by exposing the lies and fabrications that try to enslave our Mind and try to impart fear of some judgmental tribal entity in our Souls.

---

posted June 15, 2013 12:56 PM            

Proverbs 28:26
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool;.....

Ok here is the one I think I was thinking of.
Psalms 118:8
It is better to put trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

I was quoting from the King James version.

posted June 15, 2013 04:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ShyVirgo1979:
But how am I supposed to believe everything written in the bible if man is the one who put it all together? God isn't hateful but he is described as vengeful throughout the entire bible. So which parts are whole truth and which are man-made fabrications of what they view as holy? Ugh this irks me. Please come back and talk more. I hope I'm not offending anyone by posting this. I'm not judging anyone here, I just wish to understand what exactly I'm putting my faith into.

---

The Bible was written by bloodthirsty savages so even if it was divinely inspired then some things are bound to get "lost in translation" and thus seem weird to us today. Some people realize this and take the Bible with a grain of salt, even if a depressing number don't (though many of these function by treating the Bible as a cafeteria taking what they want and leaving the rest, so might overlook the Bible supporting slavery & stoning but not the Golden Rule or say where "Jesus defined" marriage between a man and a woman while ignoring how divorce was practically forbidden by him just a few verses earlier in getting their own divorces, though of course they say they're 100% Biblical).

Personally, I think you ought embrace a more modern religion without all this baggage so that you don't have to wrestle with the values of a more barbaric age that would get people who held them today (at least if they acted on them) in prison, and rightly so in many cases.

However, if you "must" include the Bible in your beliefs then you should look up apophatic theology, here's an intro:
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apophatic_theology

posted June 15, 2013 05:04 PM            

The Harlot by the Side of the Road: Forbidden Tales of the Bible

It was written by a Christian who decided to read the Bible from front to back to his son and quickly realized how inappropriate it was for children. As a Christian he wrestled with it and managed to come to terms with it while remaining a Christian (and writing this book).

posted June 16, 2013 08:50 AM            

quote:

---

The Biblical Inconsistencies merely make us take a pragmatic view of the political compulsions of the Hebrew people rather than accept a Hypnotic Trance version.

---

The OT is a wonderful history of geneology, wars, love affairs, culture, politics and rules for societal living.

posted June 16, 2013 01:30 PM            

Thank you for your responses. I hafta admit, you made me sit down and think about something. I had to ask myself if I really needed to include the bible in my beliefs. And the answer I got was I was programmed to include it. Not by malicious intent or anything. My mother made me go to a baptist church for a few yrs in elementary school. That's where I got my first bible which I still have. I remember the kids in my bible school class singled me out bc I was shy and would sit away from everyone. They would make fun of me bc I refused to take my winter coat off. I was freezing my butt off when I took it off so id leave it on lol I also remember once when I was leaving, I passed by the pastor and this girl who probably 16 or 17 and I briefly overheard their conversation. Basically she had made plans to go to prom and they were having a special program the same night and he wanted her to sing. She was part of the church choir and she had a really good voice. The pastor was trying to convince her that this program was more important than going to prom. She tried to explain she already made plans to go before she knew about the special church service. And that was all I heard. I eventually begged and pleaded with my mother to stay home and not attend church anymore and she gave in and I stopped going.

posted June 16, 2013 01:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:

Personally, I think you ought embrace a more modern religion without all this baggage so that you don't have to wrestle with the values of a more barbaric age that would get people who held them today (at least if they acted on them) in prison, and rightly so in many cases.

---

You may be right. I'm not posting so I can pick the bible apart and state which things I choose to believe and which ones I'm going to ignore. But I'd like to share something that resonates with your statement. And this is an experience that I will never forget for the rest of my life.

When I was 18 and I had my oldest son, I had a woman in my neighborhood babysit for about 6 months for me while I was working. This woman was in her mid 30's and I had babysat her daughter one summer when I was in high school. So I trusted her. I went to pay her on my day off and we were sitting in her living rm and I had seen this stick which I had thought was for her 4 dogs. I mentioned something of the fact that I saw she had it put up which assumed was to keep her dogs from chewing it up all the time. Um no it wasn't for her dogs, it was for her 4 yr old daughter! She was a devote christian and regularly attended church services with her husband. She explained a bible verse to me. This is where I first heard the phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child." She basically spanked her 4 yr old with a stick from one of the trees outside in her yard and told me it was bc that's what the bible instructed her to do. She said the tree stick was the rod. Thank goodness she didn't babysit for me very long. I got tired of her always giving me unsolicted parenting advice and I eventually found another sitter. I never witnessed her actually doing it. She had this stick put up high so her daughter wouldn't take it and hide it or break it.

Here are the verses she was telling me about.

Proverbs 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

22:15
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

23:13
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

I don't talk to this woman anymore. I was young and naive and at that time I had not learned how to assert myself and instead avoided her after she stopped babysitting for me lol She was bossy with me and I had known her for about 3 to 4 yrs so I automatically trusted her.

So for the sake of discussion here, I was told I had 2 choices. I'm paraphrasing here bc I can't remember her exact words. Basically I either can beat my child when they disobey bc that's how God wants us to raise our children (and potentially end up in jail bc its considered abuse here in the US if you leave marks or use an object to spank your children with) or NOT follow God's rules and possibly spend all eternity in the fires of hell.

I don't think all christians think this way and I don't wish to put them all in this catogory bc that's not in any way fair. This was just my experience with what someone told me about a few bible verses. You know they didn't have such thing as children's services when they put the bible in print ya know? Lol I think the problem is it was written in a different time and also there may be translation issues somewhere from 300 AD to now. Just wanted to share my personal experience.

posted June 16, 2013 02:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by juniperb:
The OT is a wonderful history of geneology, wars, love affairs, culture, politics and rules for societal living.

Documented for a specific culture and era. How it relates to the New Testament is a question mark that adds on to the inconsistencies. Jesus the Christ , IMHO, is very unrelated to the stories we read in the OT.

---

posted June 16, 2013 11:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ShyVirgo1979:
You know they didn't have such thing as children's services when they put the bible in print ya know?

---

There have been Christians convicted of severe abuse and even murder for doing things like that, and so far every time I looked into a story of the Christian Right saying they're being persecuted for a harmless spanking ended up being one of severe abuse, or even manslaughter, instead.

A friend of mine was ritually abused by his Pentecostal mom and her church. His little sister got an exorcism as her "boobs grew too fast" and they literally tied her up and a man sat on top of her with his hands on her breasts casting the demons out on the name of Jesus (I think she was 12). The mother was a real idiot who couldn't understand why her children were traumatized and just assumed Satan was attacking her family, the kids ran away from home or got in trouble as they were so warped by the abuse that she'd call her church for more exorcisms.

Africa is still in the dark ages and sometimes they'll even torture their own children to death for witchcraft.

But the Bible is much worse than using a rod on children (presumably not meant to inflict injury, just pain), such as advocating slavery, stoning of adulterers, rape under certain circumstances, and the NT even has a creepy story of how someone who joined their cult didn't give them all the money after selling their belongings so the Holy Spirit struck them dead (thus justifying killing, after all, God reveals morality, God is Christ, and Christians are to be Christ-like) and the cult buried them. And see "Heroes of the Faith" given for good Christians to follow as well as these gems about children.

And here are 6 moral deal breakers of Christianity though it's actually aimed more at the god as described in the Bible (note that since last night a few of these YT vids, including this one, take a minute or so to actually get started and then they work normally):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsgeXubzhf4

Btw, that reminds me, I once took a break from reading the Old Testament to read a fantasy book that included an evil goddess, and she was unquestionably vile and yet even the evil goddess of evil demons was actually nicer than Jehovah! Which makes me think that the only way people can't tell the god is evil (assuming they actually read it as opposed to heard a few sugar coated and carefully selected passages in Sunday School and from the pulpit) is because they were raised not to and/or are easily manipulated by peer pressure. I expect had Hitler (who, btw, used Lutheranism to get Germany behind him and was likely a Christian himself citing the Bible and Christian tradition for everything he did, including in going after the Jews, look up his speeches) won WW2 we'd all be saying what a wonderful man (and Christian) he was today (as we were raised to believe it), too.

posted June 18, 2013 08:53 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by iQ:
Yet, it contains several logical inconsistencies and even contradictions which prove plenty of Human tampering while transcribing the works.

GE 1:3-5: On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19: The Sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day

The above proves that the Bible was written by people who were not aware of the Sun's Light affecting Plant life through Photosynthesis... These are people who thought of the Sun as a mere lamp or decoration in the Sky.

2. The Biblical God is not Omniscient despite the claim of knowing everything.

GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

5. Incest not condemned by Biblical God.
=====================================
GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."

---

Not commenting otherwise, but from what I recall from years back, Lot's daughters were chastised or "condemned" for their move as an abomination or something and Lot "absolved" because it was the daughters pulling it, not him. Hence possibility of Lot not having "blame" per se.

That there are whatever level of inconsistencies in texts written by many people over whatever periods hardly seems that particularly remarkable. Picking things from here and there is likely to lead to differing things.

posted June 18, 2013 08:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
Not commenting otherwise, but from what I recall from years back, Lot's daughters were chastised or "condemned" for their move as an abomination or something and Lot "absolved" because it was the daughters pulling it, not him. Hence possibility of Lot not having "blame" per se.

---

Just out of curiosity, do you agree with God that Lot was righteous even after he offered his own virgin daughters to the city to gang rape instead of the 2 strangers?

Oh, and btw, if he were that drunk then it's extremely unlikely he could've impregnated them (and "perceived it not") and the entire story would be ripped to shreds in a court of law today, and rightly so (and wow they took a lot of wine with them after fleeing the city in a rush...). There is a condition in which men have perpetual erections (so that his daughters could ride him while he was passed out), but they find sex painful and shows that his not taking part in the hijinks of the rest of the town were for reasons other than righteousness (though just for the record I don't believe that story either, a mob may have sought to sexually abuse strangers, but not an entire city, and I doubt they'd have turned down free virgins either unless the offered virgins had shark teeth in all their bodily openings). Of course using Occam's razor I'd say that the entire myth of Lot is so completely BS that to say it was very loosely based on actual (and greatly exaggerated) events is to compliment it (and similarly insane stories from other mythologies would be rejected out of hand by people who believe the Lot myth).