posted July 15, 2013 06:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
^I believe that God created everything, but I also believe that God has allowed us freewill to do as we please. Starving children throughout the world is an act of humans, not God, and God doesn't interfere because of our freewill.....

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quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
I agree with somethingexcellent!

Sorry for a bit of mild sarcasm.... but I want to say that as I look at those emaciated children in the photos above, I wonder about the masses of people, the human species on this planet... Where IS the "freewill" here?

Looks to me like 'Freewill' has been stolen or swindled from these people... People who are starving, people who are hungry, depend on people with uber-abundance to practice the personal "test" of freedom... Will the poor be "free" to die, or not-die. Those who are well able and look onto such photos may feel the pull on their heart... but it TAKES an applying of "FREEwill" to ACT upon that which their heart, and their mind, knows they can do.

Some people translate it all into terms of money and coins.... (and the big charity orgs prefer it that way-- it's easier).

But sometimes that FREE will action can be turned to organizing others to help, too.

If there are elderly in your community who are poor, sometimes just helping them paint or clean their steps, or do yardwork is immensely helpful! Pick up loose trash and throw it out for them. No money involved there, necessarily.

Lexxigramer, you've posted words for this song before....

(music) [b]What If God Were One Of US? (Alanis Morissette) [5:19] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90P0n5AlSlA

The world is free-- free to let them die, or not-die. We have that liberty, to CHOOSE to do Justice for them, which our own good hearts and freewill know on their behalf; or we can just numb-out for another round of time, or doze-off, from the overwhelm, ignorance, or apathy.

We can pray that ALL of us are supplied with grace and power to "do". May these be strengthened until "God" shows up in their yard... [/b]

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posted July 15, 2013 06:48 PM            

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Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

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quote:

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Genesis 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Genesis 1:30
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

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Then this LORD guy tells folks throughout the OT what to do or die die die or be tortured or wtf whatever if they do not do as he decrees.
No free will there.

posted July 16, 2013 11:35 AM            

It was a test. The same KIND of test was given to the devil but he fell. He fell because of his vanity, humans ”fell” too, but because of not trusting God. That's why now we have no certainty, and almost no proof of Him. We have to learn to believe without seeing him.
Just like Eros and Psyche's legend. Psyche's sisters convinced her that she needed look at her lover face during the night when he slept. She lifted the candle but wax dripped upon his cheek waking him up. This, when he clearly told her that he wanted to keep his face hidden. Not because he wasn't there with her or because he was ugly..but because it was matter of love and therefore trust. After that, Eros fled. Psyche then, went to a lot of trouble and tests to regain his trust and getting him back. The story gets told over and over again..

Yours is mere speculation, just like 90% of our human beliefs. Can you prove that GOD is NOT real? Science should not deny divinity, it should explain its manifestation in the material plane. But, people don't search the truth, they search COMFORT.
God doesn't owe us anything. And freewill is COMPLETE.
It's not like, ”daddy, i need my space to do whatever pleases me” and when the time comes for you to pay the bills, ”daddy,help!..you were suppose to take care of ME!” doesn't work this way, because in ”His eyes” we're not human A, human B, etc etc, we are one, and we pay as one. Do you understand?
We are filthy creatures that need to wake up and stop whining like babies. We blame society but we are society, we created it. Change starts from within.

Read this again:

quote:

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
^I believe that God created everything, but I also believe that God has allowed us freewill to do as we please. Starving children throughout the world is an act of humans, not God, and God doesn't interfere because of our freewill. To ask what kind of God would allow suffering is wrong. God allows us to live and experience whatever life offers. You can't ask why God allows people to suffer, you have to ask why people allow people to suffer.

I believe that God is beyond us, our universe, dimension, whatever you wish to call it. God is undefinable. I believe that God is beyond the laws of our existence - he is beyond having to have a start or an end, he is eternal but he is also beyond eternal because the word eternal isn't enough to capture God's grace. Even calling him a he is trying to understand something that can't be understood - God is beyond just he or she or both or neither because words are limiting and God is limitless.

Until we can discover answers to questions such as when and why existence began, I will believe in God, not only because it feels right, but because it's the only answer we have right now. That said, do not really subscribe to any religion.

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@SE you don't have to subscribe to a religion.
Maybe in US is different, they have gatherings and stuff idk, but imo is something personal. I didn't change my lifestyle that much, everything i do, prayer and spiritual stuff i do it in my privacy and when i go to church. And I pretend it's empty. Not easy to do this nowadays because people inside the church will look funny at you, because you actually went there to pray. Now most of them go there because that's ..tradition and they get to socialise lol.
But if they label me as a jesus freak, not my problem honestly.

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Starting to understand divinity is a spiritual experience, unique for every individual, so it's only logical and fair in my opinion, that the book called Bible, would be a mere sketch of how God really is. I speak from experience, something similar cannot be explained and contained in a simple book; The bible gives you instructions of how we can reach God (christian OT is more history than spiritual teaching imo)
For me that's proof that God is real..how can a skull contained brain could possibly explain to me who/what ”He” is??
Those who come and say ”you now, i's like this, and then happened this and that and we are in fact evolved monkeys” are quite funny. But, no. There is scientific research that denies Darwin's theory.
God does not exist: not like Khali, Shiva, Aphrodite, Hekate etc...these are individual entities, they were created and bore many names through time, but they cannot be that one creator.
God didn't pull Adam and Eve out of the earth like a magician, but hazard is not the answer either....there is order in the smallest atom....how can this universe be the result of chaos?

posted July 16, 2013 04:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by geea:
^
You fail to understand.
”Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

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quote:

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Originally posted by geea:

It was a test. The same KIND of test was given to the devil but he fell. He fell because of his vanity, humans ”fell” too, but because of not trusting God. That's why now we have no certainty, and almost no proof of Him. We have to learn to believe without seeing him.

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quote:

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Originally posted by geea:

Yours is mere speculation, just like 90% of our human beliefs. [/quote} Well your views are not even theory or speculstion but blind belief in a mythos or a twisted sick evil LORD. [QUOTE]Originally posted by geea:
Can you prove that GOD is NOT real?

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quote:

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Originally posted by geea:
Science should not deny divinity, it should explain its manifestation in the material plane. But, people don't search the truth, they search COMFORT.

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quote:

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Originally posted by geea:

God doesn't owe us anything. And freewill is COMPLETE.

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quote:

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Originally posted by geea:

It's not like, ”daddy, i need my space to do whatever pleases me” and when the time comes for you to pay the bills, ”daddy,help!..you were suppose to take care of ME!” doesn't work this way, because in ”His eyes” we're not human A, human B, etc etc, we are one, and we pay as one. Do you understand?

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quote:

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Originally posted by geea:

We are filthy creatures that need to wake up and stop whining like babies. We blame society but we are society, we created it. Change starts from within.

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quote:

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]Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

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quote:

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Originally posted by geea:

Read this again:
@SE you don't have to subscribe to a religion.
Maybe in US is different, they have gatherings and stuff idk, but imo is something personal. I didn't change my lifestyle that much, everything i do, prayer and spiritual stuff i do it in my privacy and when i go to church. And I pretend it's empty. Not easy to do this nowadays because people inside the church will look funny at you, because you actually went there to pray. Now most of them go there because that's ..tradition and they get to socialise lol.
But if they label me as a jesus freak, not my problem honestly.

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Anyhow thanks for contributing even though I do not buy your thinking.

posted July 16, 2013 04:20 PM            

quote:

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Starting to understand divinity is a spiritual experience, unique for every individual,

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Yes And starting from that premise, we can state our opinions without being rude or overly opinionated.

We believe differently and still converse in a kind and responsible manner.

I believe in God, self labled a Christian and I Know my Faith and stand strong on it. What another believes is their right and it doesn`t effect me at all. Unless they try to bully or put me down as an idiot or heathen. I think that is behind us here so may we share in kindness.

posted July 17, 2013 07:26 AM            

I do not call this anything, i was explaining the biblical concept, and my faith. Take it or leave it, it's not MY problem if you believe it or not.

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”edit”
CAN YOU PROVE HE ISN'T?
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”edit”

Trolling again, religion/faith/spiritual lifestyle if you wish, is a ----------Choice------------- ; Do you think you are smarter and religious people are all stupid who cannot see the ”truth”?
Here is a link, in case you are interested in more than trolling:
http://dcmcd2.blogspot.ro/2011/01/father-savas-story.html

(This guy over here, is an american monk who gave up his position in the greatest bank of US, now lives in a romanian orthodox monastery, in a place that is not even on the map, washing bathrooms, cleaning horse stables and praying. Maybe you try to accept that highly intelligent people can become very religious)

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”edit”

lol yeah an advanced being goes shopping all day long and it's too busy to notice other inferior beings in the universe! lol! That thing, you call ”advanced being” is what i call God, the creator, the one who made us and the universe and His concern would be precisely his creations. You describe everything through your human MIND, that's why I say that reason takes you somewhere, but not to the destination.

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”edit”

It is twisted, but not the real christian view. You ARE forgiven if you truly repent before God(and Of Course it would be ideal if people didn't sin in the first place). There is some stuff in the Bible i dont agree with, and i put this to bad interepretation of those who wrote/copied it. The Bible says bad things will happen to non-believers(even those who are good people) but imo, ”all i know is that i know nothing” -Socrates. And period, i go on with my life without concerning too much with it.

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”edit”

Yes WE ARE, comparing to our original state we are NOW filthy. DO NOT interpretate my words when you know exactly what i mean(or maybe you don't and i over-estimated you)
Weren't YOU the one posting those images earlier? Please...just because i believe in god doesn't mean i see everything through rose-coloured glasses.

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”edit”

THIS is what's rude and the comment juniperb made should be directed to this not me.
I wasn't ”selling” anything, it's just the way i express myself(towards SE btw,the last part, not you) blame it to my packed 3rd house. People think it's directed to them personally..Sorry for that.

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I am sorry that you hate this, but then again..why would you hate so much someone/thing that doesn't exist?
I end it here because yours is not a matter of not understanding the concept, it's a matter of non-belief and trolling which is your choice and i don't really care.
God Bless You

posted July 17, 2013 07:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Yes And starting from that premise, we can state our opinions without being rude or overly opinionated.

We believe differently and still converse in a kind and responsible manner.

I believe in God, self labled a Christian and I Know my Faith and stand strong on it. What another believes is their right and it doesn`t effect me at all. Unless they try to bully or put me down as an idiot or heathen. I think that is behind us here so may we share in kindness.

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you got the wrong person.
She quoted something from the Bible, i explained it. If I say that Buddha was actually a cow, you will come forth and corect me, right? because Buddha was a person.

posted July 17, 2013 08:15 AM            

I liked your comment and saw the opportunity to build a bridge here.

In general,
as a Christian, I am often reminded of the Christ`s wise words... He could have been speaking to his followers or Athiests.

" whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house[Lindaland) or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

'"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

We all agree to disagree and maybe the Christ was aware of future debates and the rancor they could create.

posted July 17, 2013 09:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
geea,
I wasn`t necessarily directing my post at any one particular person.

I liked your comment and saw the opportunity to build a bridge here.

In general,
as a Christian, I am often reminded of the Christ`s wise words... He could have been speaking to his followers or Athiests.

" whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house[Lindaland) or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

'"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

We all agree to disagree and maybe the Christ was aware of future debates and the rancor they could create.

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yes
@mirage, thank you

posted July 17, 2013 10:13 AM            

KINDLY STOP QUOTING ME
SINCE YOU DO NOT PUT QUOTES IN THE RIGHT PLACES.

And I am trying to have discussions here and yes;
am even open minded enough to say maybe there is a god out there or gods.....
but your rehashing your views as proof makes trying to have a discussion impossible.

posted July 17, 2013 10:38 AM            

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'"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

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"holy" beliefs;
a dog.
Yes vicious stupid dog.
And a pig, a dirty stupid pig.

It also helps me to make a point as to why I object to rabid unbending unquestioning religious belief;
that only their beliefs are good and valid (as in holy)
And they love calling we who do believe as they do; dogs, pigs, and lol...now trolls.
ONLY THEIR VIEWS COUNT;
they spit on the rest of us. They act all superior.
How can there be real discussions of what ifs,
when believers will not let go just to explore the what ifs?
How can they when I and others are naught but dirty stupid dogs and pigs, and trolls, and worse?
I am becoming quite bored with trying to talk theory and what ifs, and explore possibilities...........
What century is this again?

posted July 17, 2013 06:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Lexxigramer:

Your mind is closed and you are 100% right about everything so no point in wasting time trying to have intelligent discussions with you, and talk of what ifs and theories.
If you could prove things or keep an open mind, that would be great.
But you are stuck in bronze age sheepherder mentality.
I wonder if you would implode if aliens came here?
I am quite confident that they would not agree with your beliefs.

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1. if my mind was indeed closed, i would have remained a true agnostic.
”Only the fools and the dead never change”
2. ”stuck in bronze age sheepherder mentality”.... i hope you didnt mean what i think you meant because thats just low
3. if aliens came i would just say ”god bless you” but i think theyd run away

(((((((HUGS))))))) Lexxi