posted March 29, 2014 04:58 AM            

Do you think that the true meaning of the Divine Creative Name is reached and achieved when the two sexes become One?

Or even when we reach that Androgynous state that is both and neither sexes?

I mean, when you look to the meaning of the Name that is used in the first chapter of the Bible, (the Creative Name) you see that it is both Male and Female combined, it is the Unity in Plural.

I always think of Lightning, when the Lightning Strikes, it is Creative.

The Earth becomes fertile by this action, that is but one form of the Positive/Negative Creative Action.

It is also the meaning of the Athame/Chalice Union, the Penetrative Creative Act.

It's really too bad that the stinkin' Churches have left out the Creative Feminine for the most part.

Stupid Churches.

posted March 30, 2014 03:01 AM            

I've always wanted to take part in the Great Rite in the literal sense, even after I pretty much stopped being Wiccan. I doubt I ever will now (and certainly wouldn't do it if I had a partner who'd be offended).

I was originally brought into Wicca through Dianics, and they're great (or most of them were), I have nothing against them, but I just couldn't adhere to the separation of the masculine for myself, to me the witches cauldron (womb) is incomplete without its stick (phallus) to stir it with and create (which is also destruction). The pentagram is the 4 elements (which double as male & female intertwined) with spirit transcending them. While a slight emphasis on the Goddess makes sense (as we come from the womb and return to the womb of the Earth/darkness) the God/dess manifests in both male & female forms. To deny the male is to deny half of who the God/dess is.

Again, I'm not saying the Dianics are actually misled, especially as they (unlike many other religions that have a god without a goddess, unless it's an inferior one like say the Virgin Mary of Catholics) recognize the God, they just want to separate them rather than unite them. I can even understand their reasons for why that works for them, and if men want their man cave to worship Pan or Dionysus in male only covens or whatever, that doesn't bother me either...especially when both types can meet and help each other with mutual respect at pagan gatherings as they've been known to do.

posted March 30, 2014 10:19 PM            

Maybe that's why the 5 pointed star represents the feminine, the womb to create another.

posted March 31, 2014 05:16 AM            

Interesting.

Sacred Geometry!

posted March 31, 2014 06:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ellynlvx:
So the Dianic is the flip-side of the coin

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posted April 01, 2014 09:28 PM            

http://unurthed.com/2010/09/30/the-double-triadic-hexagram/

posted April 01, 2014 11:08 PM            

Look at the symbols:

posted April 08, 2014 04:53 PM            

LOVED your Lightning video, Ellyn....

I've been thinking and mulling over all the light and dark, the joy and the fright about the Feminine...

I'm feeling as though "we" don't truly know and understand what the "product" of the merging of masculine with feminine ENERGY will be. What I "observe" is that the males seem truly terrified of it, and try to terrorize women into a pre-set default conditioning of "submittance"....

I feel that (in my own life) "men" or male-genders (personally) have made ME to feel "afraid" of my 'own' Power. I've lived my life on a level of being "stifled" and Silenced over and over again....

Have seen trailers for the coming of "Rosemary's Baby"..... Is "this" the representation of the psychic "baby" that males and females are afraid of?

It's as though we think that the feminine (DIFFERENT FROM GENDER!!!) is going to be SO angry that she will be a Monster who will in great FURY exact 'vengeance' on the world of Males and Females alike.

I really wonder how much of a "projection" that Males have injected INTO the waiting Female psyche? Like "Gaslighting" her? Making the Female Gender "think" that she will be "Evil" if she comes out of her tiny limits and out into the open. Both genders are terrified of the steps "she" takes INTO her own rightful place, in equality. A place that was stolen from her. That has had MUCH blood shed for it (women's vote???).

This is Fear.... Its repressed energies are coming so close to the surface now. The things that feel so Unknown to us feel 'wild'-- anxiety and fear has escalated.

Men/males subconsciously REALIZE the tremendous amount of guilt and collective DEBT they owe to women in this recent Age. They think that their only recourse is to slay and try to re-conquer.... They "understand" how there is simply no way they can adequately repay---in the earthen realms.

I feel that the Higher Road could be Forgiveness, but NOT to Forget! No one 'conquers' the other, but they EQUALLY "submit" TO one another.... so that a MERGING of aspects of BOTH COULD become the game-changing resolution.

That would take Cooperation. And therein lies the fantasy and utopia. Tremendous-tremendous power! It takes FORMIDABLE power to 'not act out against' but to be wrestling energies.... like a quasar, like the boiling Sun.

NO, no I don't think that the Baby will be a Monster..... I think that this Birth of New Born Equality would have to be a Miracle. Inside first.

posted April 08, 2014 10:17 PM            

"Let there be light"

Masculinity is that light. The Sun is considered Masculine while the Moon is considered Feminine.

Darkness is chaos but also where all power stems. This is why Lilith can also be seen as the wild woman, the untamed and furious female.

Look at Kali:
http://www.goddess.ws/kali.html

Misunderstood is the first word that sticks out.

We're all afraid of chaos and without the structure or masculine or light, we wouldn't have focus, direction.

posted April 09, 2014 02:46 AM            

MsPrism, that sounded very like the difference between Ama and Aima (Darkness and Sterility; the Bright and Fertile Mother) being the Yod.

Wow, Pixie.

Cool.

You girls are on it.

posted April 09, 2014 05:18 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MsPrism:
Thank you, Pixie. I really appreciate the link and any others you might have!

Posting your quibbles would be cool to read too.

---

Quibbles off the top of my head (I should be in bed...):

quote:

---

The Dianic tradition stands in accord with the Wiccan Rede which states, "An Harm None, Do What You Will, " honoring free will, and with the intention that our magical actions be for the greater good of all.

This Wiccan guidepost supports full consciousness with regards to the use of power in magickal workings and in daily life. This is not a rule accompanied with threats of retribution, but supports true ethical understanding of one's actions or inaction.

---

While technically true it's also misleading...at least if it were said by many of the Dianics I know to others not of their tradition which said the witch was also a protector of the community (especially of women) and that the "inaction" includes failing to punish, say, rapists and abusers, typically male abusers of females. and may include both curses as well as illegal (or at least frowned upon) actions if they feel the law failed to mete out justice or even that the law is incapable of meting out justice in this case. The argument is that by allowing such a person to get away with it that it will allow other victims in the future, and therefore you must act to stop this person or you share in part in his future crimes against women and girls which will add to the problems of the world in general. (IMPORTANT: the words spoken IS true to THEM, the Dianics I knew, but they know very well how many others would not see it that way which is why I say it's misleading. Arguably it's just skipping over some nuances that could easily be misunderstood, yet this reasoning would not be accepted by most other Wiccans in general.)

quote:

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Being a Women's Mysteries tradition, Dianic religion is for women, not against men. We support the right of males to their exclusive celebrations of Men's Mysteries in recognition of their unique rites of passage and spiritual journey to the Goddess. Many Dianic circles welcome male infants and toddlers with their mothers providing that the ritual itself is age-appropriate for a child to attend.

---

Generally speaking, very true. However, in the "confederation" of Dianics (that included both individuals and covens in Jefferson who worked both by themselves and sometimes came together to form a larger group) there was a lot of variety. A few did call on gods (as a lesser aspect and child of the Goddess) and may work with men on their own (separate from the Dianics) while others thought male and female were spiritually alienated, even destined to be enemies. Most fell in between. A few got REALLY extreme, one group completely barred all males--including infants--from their land (and many women with both a place women could visit that was still not full access), and while this isn't necessarily bad (this, which certainly reminds me of some of the Dianics I knew, seems benign to me) I heard terrible rumors of what was done. I won't repeat them (and will ignore any requests for me to do so) but I had a tendency to believe them because one of them gave me a copy of the SCUM Manifesto and was upset when I mistook it for a satire of patriarchy (that is if feminism were to mix everything from the Malleus Maleficarum to the Final Solution of the Nazis into one package), and after I laughed at it and then rejected the message when I found it was intended to be taken serious so then I wasn't allowed on their land at all.

I've mentioned before how a song made me feel Sisterhood and the Goddess within that united us all and to nature...what I usually skip is that the song is propaganda and manipulative (as that's irrelevant to how it made me feel). It was more powerful because we sang and danced to it together.

I hope you're familiar with how propaganda works as I think it's too close to my bedtime to explain it. Suffice to say if you've at least heard of The Birth of a Nation, and The Eternal Jew, and even Battleship Potemkin then you should be familiar with the evil enemy that has tormented society that now needs heroes to rise up against the feared foe before they destroy us all, even your children, and then justice can finally prevail with a return to the golden age of peace and harmony. The song works on that, only it's patriarchy that has tormented women, including the Earth herself (note lyrics like "the Earth is a mother, and the men still burn her..."). You can hear it here, and I've chosen this one as it's also informative by the guy who posted it even when it contradicts the song (the comments can be worth reading, too):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9PJvy-LmYA

What plenty said is that it would end in an apocalyptic battle in which women would have to save the Earth from the men (typically by matriarchy, though there were anarcha-feminists and eco-anarchists among them, too) before we were all raped to death and our children dead and dying. And I was made to see The Goddess Trilogy to expand on that (which was supported by the more "men friendly" members--and it's not all bad). Parts 1, 2, and 3 reflect the 3 verses of the song perfectly. And there's good stuff to it but a lot is exaggerated or glossed over to create an image, though usually artfully so that it easily misleads emotionally (which is thus remembered more than the rebuttals) it has a slippery way out of being called deceptive. For example, they describe the terrifying tortures and executions of women during the Burning Times in extreme, and unnecessary, detail (leaving out the men who burned with them, and that the worst punishments were for priests who helped women escape the Inquisition as some priests were more loyal to their communities than the church, plus exaggerating the number of women killed by citing a real yet discredited source) and it was with sad music and background of women crying and begging (sometimes with men as angry, to sound as if hurting the sobbing women) along with the most infuriating quotes by men of the time that they could find. If you want, you can see it for free:

Goddess Remembered

and

The Burning Times

and

Whoops, can't find Full Circle online, and too bad, it had the part about how women needed to rise up with a slant. I tried a search on YT for Goddess Remembered (ETA: should've been "Full Circle" but I got the same results when I tried that) and someone really wants to be sure the Burning Times is seen, yow:

REMOVED THE LINK, LL can't code it right. I'd done a YT search for women and spirituality goddess remembered and I'd gotten several copies of The Burning Times under various user names, they really want to get that out there. Unfortunately, I didn't see Goddess Remembered. Moving on...

Btw, I don't mean to put it down, there's A LOT of good stuff in it, only one needs to take it with a grain of salt because of the parts meant to manipulate more than inform.

And perhaps it's also worth noting that many of these had came of age in the 70s or earlier and women had it harder then. Even my Granny who thinks Dianic Wicca is silly can share infuriating stories of being a woman back then (even on a hippie commune) and I must say had I come of age back then I'd have probably burned some bras, too! But more importantly, when your spirit is beaten down, especially for rape victims who were often not helped by the law, it could be incredibly healing to be allowed that rage and that sense of power. I found it therapeutic myself. And the injustices they describe do happen (sometimes).

It's just a few got REALLY toxic about it, and came to hate men, and told me how testosterone was a brain damaging poison that turned people evil (citing that female hyenas are born with testosterone and are born with maws snapping--found out that was true despite I didn't believe it) and that the Y-chromosome was a genetic defect, even claiming that a few women doctors were working to find a "cure" as well as promoting ideas such as female sperm Btw, going back to the SCUM Manifesto I linked to above, it says, It is now technically feasible to reproduce without the aid of males (or, for that matter, females) and to produce only females. We must begin immediately to do so. Retaining the mail has not even the dubious purpose of reproduction. The male is a biological accident: the Y (male) gene is an incomplete X (female) gene, that is, it has an incomplete set of chromosomes. In other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples."

The article also cites Mary Daly, as did some of the Dianics I knew, and some of what she said was really disturbing and made me think of some how to try to paint all blacks as vile. It's late and my memory is too fuzzy on that, and I don't want to repeat what might not be true because I'm confusing her with someone else, but I do know she's infamous even among moderate feminists (her views on men).

posted April 09, 2014 05:36 AM            

I have heard about the Merkaba and seen a few pictures, if there aren't differing uses for the word.

It looks exactly like the star of David but in 3D, the Feminine merging with the Masculine.

The first time I heard it I was listening to a woman describing experiences with aliens and it all went over my head. I don't like people saying to me "Just believe me, don't question it."

I do love to gather information though so please tell me more about the Merkaba if you have more knowledge of it than I.
---------------------------------
I should have said this up there, the posy about darkness, I don't know or believe that what I said is true, it's just me putting together certain pieces. I have a wonky brain that doesn't like putting puzzle pieces together mentally, I have to actually be thinking about it and saying or writing it down.

So far, I've had people tell me about their experiences with spirits, even having an entity attach onto them. They allow the entity to attach and this particular person was a lonely girl. Anyway, she said this entity looked grey, just a human shape but a smokey looking grey filling the shape.

I guess the darkness being at one end and the light being at the other, we could assume that grey is all the shades in between and maybe the dimensions closest to us contain grey looking beings?

posted April 09, 2014 06:11 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ellynlvx:
Do you know the Merkabah?

---

I've generally avoided the Kabbalah (though I've been exposed to it).

posted April 09, 2014 06:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MsPrism:
Could you please explain more about the Ama and Aima, Ellyn?

I have heard about the Merkaba and seen a few pictures, if there aren't differing uses for the word.

It looks exactly like the star of David but in 3D, the Feminine merging with the Masculine.

The first time I heard it I was listening to a woman describing experiences with aliens and it all went over my head. I don't like people saying to me "Just believe me, don't question it."

I do love to gather information though so please tell me more about the Merkaba if you have more knowledge of it than I.

---

This link is okay:
http://gnosticlessons.com/life/3.html

I sometimes think of the High Priestess and The Empress as defining Images of the two.

The Chariot would be the Image for the Merkabah, although I sometimes see it as two cones whirling in different directions and coming together to form one.

As Above.

It is a Vision of Manifestation.

posted April 09, 2014 06:30 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
I've generally avoided the Kabbalah (though I've been exposed to it).

---

Dion Fortune wrote a very good book on it.

posted April 09, 2014 09:09 PM            

PixieJane Your work was eye-opening and AMAZING. Rich, like a college-level Women's Study class. You're a born scholar, and do beautiful work! -- AND Hey, "it's okay" to NOT do it 'perfectly'...??? PLEASE don't do that to yourself! It could take 'the joy' out of *the love of* communications!

I have so much to learn here... Seems that I've already run across pieces of these areas and types of thinking in my life's journey. Glad to have it all try to coalesce for me now.

Ms Prism, I've 'seen' you around. You have a PRODIGIOUS, yes biggie-word, store of knowledge with the ability to process it all! I've appreciated your urls, and questions.

Ellyn? You really think I sound like "Linda" a bit?? wow, what a compliment! Thankyou, means a lot to me. When I first became loosely interested in astrology, I had picked up her book on Love Relationships. I barely had knowledge about 'signs of the zodiac'... But it was the essence-energy found in her writing that attracted me most-- Her pathos! her lovingly screwy sarcasm and humor, mixed with politics and her depths! I loved how she could fantastically wrap her words and her life around imagination, and the Truth.... She touched, amused, and crushed my feeling soul.

Today is the anniversary of her birth day. So Ellyn, what you said has extra meaning to me today.... Thankyou so much again for the comment, and for starting this thread.

posted April 09, 2014 09:33 PM            

So you're right on the money with her beliefs. And very integral to her philosophies as well.

posted April 09, 2014 10:10 PM            

The merging that you're talking about, I've read something before that reminds me of that idea. It's more about sustaining our lives through shared resource rather than violent opposition. I guess it could be the Aries/Libra poles. One side fighting and the other creating harmony or basically justice is being had, reaping what you sow, etc.

I wonder if it could be possible to sustain ourselves through some sort of sacred sexual practice?
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/apr1/ankhing.htm

Ellyn, thank you for the link. I've read about the tree of life before, in the book "The Spiritual Essence of Man". Which actually had one specific reference that matches with an experience of mine. It states that often times you will dream of your higher self as a person with blue skin, like the deity Krishna.

I've actually had a dream where these men had blue skin and were soldiers for me. It's odd because I've had many dreams of being a man and fighting in war. Interesting.

Maybe there is something in it that will connect for you too.
http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Essence-Man-Chakras-Inverted/dp/9719110694

Anyways, it's always great to receive more information on it!

Pixie:

Wow, bad luck last night! Gotta get to bed earlier girl!

Thank you very much for all the links! The Chalice and the Blade is available on Audible so I'll be listening to it today and I'll tell you if I do enjoy it.

I cannot believe the SCUM manifesto. I just can't even begin to understand it. I agree about being allowed to rage at injustice in a healthy way but wow, I never knew people went that far with it.

I listened to the song, it gave me major chills.