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Author Topic:   Some Chilling Strategies of Neo-Atheists
rajji
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posted July 01, 2014 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...What do you think about the cliams of neo-atheism? Share your thoughts

“One outcome of this—the greatest psychological survey in the whole of history—was to demonstrate conclusively that the chief danger to civilization was not merely religious extremism but religions themselves.” (Arthur C. Clarke, writer and futurist)

AN OLD PLOY
A new wave of atheism is sweeping over the cultural landscape. At the vanguard are Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Sam Harris whose anti-God polemics can be found in The God Delusion, God is Not Great, and The End of Faith. Judging from book sales and bestseller lists, these pitchmen have definitely hit a harmonic with anyone who has ever had an ax to grind against religion; especially, Christianity.

The ploy is an old one: Point to some negative consequence, single out a belief system or people group that you don’t particularly like, make a connection—no matter how tenuous—and suggest a solution. In ancient times, it resulted in the scourge, the rack and the Roman coliseum; in modern times, the gulag, crematoria, and mass graves.

Through the patristic period, Christianity was blamed for nearly every malady that beset society, from famines and plagues to the fall of Rome. Modern detractors gain traction by ignoring the inconvenient truth that Western civilization was built on the pillars of Christian ideals.

The creation of hospitals, orphanages, and universities; the advancement of abolition, suffrage, labor laws and science; and the Western rule of law, including the separation of church and state and the separation of powers, were the products of a Christian worldview that today is called “toxic” because of acts by misguided or unprincipled Christians.

But notice how easily that tactic is turned around.

Forget the world-changing discoveries of Isaac Newton, Jonas Salk, and Louis Pasteur. Single out the heinous experiments of Joseph Mengele or the fraudulent research of Hwang Woo-Suk, and you’ve got an open-and-shut case for science as the “root of all evil.”

Don’t like doctors or hospitals? Overlook all the good medical care that has helped untold millions to health, focus on the instances of malpractice and quackery, and you’ve found a new scapegoat for human misery: the medical industry.

Unfazed by such logic, Dawkins & Co. argue that religious belief is an imminent danger that society can ill afford. Recognizing the failure of 300 years of enlightenment to accomplish the task, the atheistas are calling for new measures to dislodge the malevolent shadow clouding rational thinking.

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rajji
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posted July 01, 2014 12:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TARGETING THE YOUNG
In God is Not Great, Christopher Hitchens writes, “If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in a quite different world.” Mr. Hitchens will find no argument here. Neglect religious instruction at mother’s knee and I suspect the world would be a much different place indeed.

Daniel Dennett adds, “[Parents] ought to be held accountable by outsiders for their guardianship [of children], which does imply that outsiders have a right to interfere.”

What Dennett suggests is that educators, not parents, are best equipped to impart knowledge to kids. And the knowledge he is most intent on imparting is that religious belief is a phenomenon of our evolutionary development and, hence, not true. Never mind that the same line of reasoning would make Mr. Dennett’s belief in Darwinism a product of evolutionary development and, hence, not true.

The attack on parental responsibility reaches breathtaking proportions with psychologist Nicholas Humphrey. As cited by Dinesh D’Souza, Humphrey insists: “Parents have no god-given license to enculturate their children in whatever ways they personally choose: no right to limit the horizons of their children’s knowledge, to bring them up in an atmosphere of dogma and superstition, or to insist they follow the straight and narrow paths of their own faith.”

And yet impersonal institutions like the National Education Association and National Science Foundation should be allowed to limit children’s exposure to the “straight and narrow paths of their own faith (in scientific materialism)”? Preposterous!

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rajji
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posted July 01, 2014 12:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MAKING YOUNG CLONES
D’Souza goes on to quote postmodern philosopher Richard Rorty: “Secular professors in the universities ought ‘to arrange things so that students who enter as bigoted, homophobic religious fundamentalists will leave college with views more like our own’ . . . students are fortunate to find themselves under the control ‘of people like me, and to have escaped the grip of their frightening, vicious, dangerous parents.’”

Imagine, a whole generation of young people cloned by the one-man Ministry of (De-constructed) Truth himself. Our concern ought to be that they could fall into the grip of such frighteningly dangerous man-molders.

What’s more, Rorty continues, “we are going to go right on trying to discredit you in the eyes of your children, trying to strip your fundamentalist religious community of dignity, trying to make your views seem silly rather than discussable.’”

Can you believe it? Religious belief is so dangerous, it must be stamped out, even if it means disgracing parents. The hubris is stunning.

It’s hard to ponder these things without thinking of Joseph Kony, the self-appointed leader of a Ugandan terrorist group that ravages villages, killing parents and kidnapping children. While Rorty is not advocating murder and child abduction, his intention to discredit parents so that their children will fall under his spell, sounds alarmingly Kony-esque.

Just a few decades ago, the idea that anyone, much less the socio-technological establishment, had the right, over parents, to shape the religious beliefs of the next generation, would have been unthinkable. Today, it is brazenly proposed.

But the most bracing vision comes from sci-fi writer, Arthur C. Clarke.

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rajji
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posted July 01, 2014 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DISSOLVING INTO A "SUPERMIND"
From a futuristic perspective in 2500 AD, Clarke looks back at 2010 as the year the human race averted its gravest danger. No, it wasn’t thermonuclear war, global warming, or an earth-bound asteroid; it was the “mental virus” of organized religion.

The “good” news is that before our worst fears were realized, science came to the rescue. The wonders of technology enabled minds across the globe to be linked into a “supermind” causing religion, and all other divisive ideas, to meld in cosmic oneness. Once the distinctions of thought and personality dissolved into the universal, impersonal entity, the utopian promise of peace and prosperity was fulfilled.

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rajji
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posted July 01, 2014 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ANSWERING THE CRITICS
Belief in God is irrational. Religion is virus that threatens mankind’s survival. How do we answer these and other such statements?

Without God, there is no Archimedean point outside our experience to discern truth from falsehood or fact from fantasy. In a Godless cosmos, truth and reality are not objective descriptions of how the world works; they’re products of human perception or invention. And that goes for moral truth as well.

When an atheist fumes over the evils of religion, he has made a judgment for which he has no standard, save his own opinion. To make it “true,” he must persuade 51 percent of the community to his way of thinking. And he must do so, paradoxically, by appealing to the theistic presupposition that distinctions between good and evil exist, which reasonable people everywhere acknowledge.

Then there’s the charge that religious instruction is child abuse. A recent survey by Ellison Research reports that 74 percent of all adults consider their childhood church attendance as having a positive influence on their lives. If you include those who felt it had “no influence,” the percentage jumps to 92 percent. Even among people who no longer attend church, 86 percent believe their early religious exposure caused them no harm.

As to the claim that religion is a social danger tantamount to viral pandemic, the research indicates otherwise.

The conclusion of numerous studies complied by the Heritage Foundation, is that deep religious commitment is strongly associated with stable marriages and families, well-adjusted and better educated children, and lower incidences of domestic violence, divorce, crime, addictive behaviors and ex-offender recidivism. Summarizing the large body of research conducted over the last decade, former Deputy Assistant Health and Human Services Secretary, Patrick Fagan states:

A steadily increasing body of evidence from the social sciences demonstrates that regular religious practice benefits individuals, families, and communities, and thus the nation as a whole. The practice of religion improves health, academic achievement, and economic well-being and fosters self-control, self-esteem, empathy, and compassion.

What’s more, these conclusions confirm what our Founding Fathers observed over two centuries ago.

Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.” (George Washington, in his farewell address to the nation)

Article by-Regis Nicoll

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Catalina
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posted July 15, 2014 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Catalina
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posted July 15, 2014 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The creation of hospitals, orphanages, and universities; the advancement of abolition, suffrage, labor laws and science; and the Western rule of law, including the separation of church and state and the separation of powers, were the products of a Christian worldview

Once upon a time it was the Muslims who cultivated most of these...kept education and tolerance going in the Middle Ages when Christians were choosing ignorant faith as the rule to live by...

I find it "chilling" that you think not only one needs Religion to embrace common human decency but Christian Religion at that. Or am I misreading you?

I don't think the absence of A God means people won't do the "right" thing. Quite the opposite. The absence of adherence to a particular religion removes one of the prime motives used to push people into being soldiers.

My God is the Only God thinking is the root of much Ungodly behavior, ie murder, discrimination, subjugation of others...etc

By the way, I have read none of your "neo-atheists" work...not interested in turning nonreligion into a religion.

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Lexxigramer
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posted July 15, 2014 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lexxigramer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Catalina

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PixieJane
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posted July 15, 2014 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, Catalina, you barely scratched the surface of what was wrong with all the above. There are so many things wrong with it that I don't see a point of even trying to list every thinking error and inaccuracy that exists. It's like how clothes are often worth cleaning but sometimes they're just so soaked and stained through and through that it's best to toss them rather than wash them over and over again.

Just one tidbit for you though (not just about Mengele but also about Creationist authors that the OP obviously subscribes to):
http://users.adam.com.au/bstett/ReligMengele136.html

And I could also comment a lot on the part you quoted but to do so I'd have to explain the history which is not understood by the writer, and how ironic the statement "product of a Christian worldview" is (even when true it's not as the writer would have you think). And I'm just feeling too lazy for that.

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Catalina
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posted July 15, 2014 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Catalina
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posted July 15, 2014 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lexx

Too true PJ... I really don't have the time to debunk it all. The simple fact that what is attributed to "Christian world view" was actually practiced by the Moors when Christians were into subjugating the masses and the Inquisition...is enough really, IMO.

Narrowmindedness comes in all religious casts too, it's not reserved for Christians.

I know many wonderful Christians, churchgoers and NON...but they don't fool themselves that there are no other paths to enlightened living and God.

George Washington was very clear that Christian Principles were not the guiding light in establishing the United States and its Constitution. Christianity, after all, sentences non believers to Hell - often on Earth as well as the beyond. As do other religions when poorly perceived. Hardly jibes with equal rights for all..

In the early days of America Irish slaves were common and multitudinous...one justification given by Good Christians was that they were Catholic (not Protestant) and therefore no better than monkeys in the scheme of things...

I do however have issues with people making a religion out of atheism ... I don't believe reason is a complete tool for understanding the universe either. Knowledge being eternally growing and changing takes the absolute out of most everything!

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Lei_Kuei
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posted July 15, 2014 05:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Catalina:

George Washington was very clear that Christian Principles were not the guiding light in establishing the United States and its Constitution. Christianity, after all, sentences non believers to Hell - often on Earth as well as the beyond. As do other religions when poorly perceived. Hardly jibes with equal rights for all..


Hear hear

Ive wanted to post in this thread, but I was already knee deep in an atheist versus theist debate in my Tomb of Jesus thread where I was busy entombing Religion :\

------------------
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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rajji
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posted July 16, 2014 05:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

quote:
Once upon a time it was the Muslims who cultivated most of these...kept education and tolerance going in the Middle Ages when Christians were choosing ignorant faith as the rule to live by...

I wonder if that answer required blind belief that God does not exist which is dogmatic because there is no proof.If you dont want it to be called a religion then it seems like it is a cult with its own dogmatic beliefs. If people get touchy, offended or angry about an opposing view in these atheism/God debates, then there is usually a strongly held belief system in there somewhere - on either side.Is atheism a belief system? Of course it is. In fact it has become just as dogmatic as the thing it seeks to oppose.

Im so glad you pointed out about Muslims
To tell you the truth I found it equally shocking
to know that it was not only christians, but also Muslims and Jews who increasingly feel they are no longer free to express any belief, no matter how deeply felt, that runs counter to the prevailing fashions for superficial “tolerance” and “equality”.
I believe that religious liberty is meaningless if religious subcultures do not have the right to practise and preach according to their beliefs.

quote:
find it "chilling" that you think not only one needs Religion to embrace common human decency but Christian Religion at that. Or am I misreading you

Well, that is for you to decide.When I come across Images like this
Im not angered the least bit as it only seemd to emphasize the fact that their exists a sect of people who are devout unbelievers.
It dosent bother me anymore than being myself. I simply consider myself a human being. That said, if people want to call me an atheist christian(for my habit of not attending sermons, Not praying five times everyday like orthodox muslims do, nor denouncing god) I don't lose sleep over it, better than saying I'm delusional. The term atheist depends on religion, if religions didn't exist neither would the term atheist.

quote:
don't think the absence of A God means people won't do the "right" thing. Quite the opposite. The absence of adherence to a particular religion removes one of the prime motives used to push people into being soldiers.
My God is the Only God thinking is the root of much Ungodly behavior, ie murder, discrimination, subjugation of others...et .

These views – for example, on abortion, adoption, divorce, marriage, promiscuity and euthanasia – may be unfashionable to the discerning eye of an atheist.
But that is not the point.
Adherents of these beliefs should not face life-ruining disadvantages. They should not have to close their businesses, as happened to the Christian couple who said only married heterosexual couples could stay at their bed and breakfast. They should not lose their jobs, which was the case of the registrar who refused to marry gays. When Britain was fighting for its life in the Second World War, it never forced pacifists to bear arms. So why force the closure of a Catholic adoption agency that for almost 150 years has placed some of society’s most vulnerable children with loving parents?
I see no difference, whatsoever between overtly zealous Atheists or Religious Fanatics for that matter.

quote:

By the way, I have read none of your "neo-atheists" work...not interested in turning nonreligion into a religion .

Worship is a broadly defined term I think.
These atheist organizations have their tools to propagate hate, confusion, and conflict
They aim to destroy all religious beliefs and set the world straight. They are just as powerful as a mob organization (criminal) and will stop at nothing to achieve their goals. I am just like you in this one response. I don't get into the whole battle of faith and non-faith discussions. not atleast in dd But I do like to read others opinion on the matter. .


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Catalina
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posted July 16, 2014 08:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes atheists can be as narrow minded as religious folk. I was addressing your belief that tolerance and other rights enshrined in America are Christian inspired.

In the middle ages I repeat while catholics were murdering all heretics and forbade booklearning lest people make up their own minds the muslim moors encouraged education...math,' science, medicine...what happened? Do you think that western interference, colonization and missionaries...and carving the middle east up arbitrarily to suit our power agendas...had anything to do with the vehement muslim fundie movement? Ever hear osama bin laden on the topic of WHY?

I havent said I dont believe in god...but my idea of what religions including atheists call god is not made in man's image like theirs. It plays no favourites and bestows no favours or punishments. We do those things to ourselves and others. God is not so petty nor personlike

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rajji
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posted July 16, 2014 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like that!

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Randall
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posted July 17, 2014 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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rajji
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posted July 18, 2014 05:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The greatest judgment God can send on His people is letting them have their own way. - Warren Wiersbe

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Randall
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posted July 19, 2014 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good quote.

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Catalina
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posted July 23, 2014 07:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I put that poorly. To personify god is to diminish IT, the creative force that enables everything that is/happens, of which we are part and product. Judgement is a human concept. "HE" is a human concept, so is "His"...capital letters notwithstanding. I have never been able to understand why people would take something so infinite and visualize it as the all-powerful schoolmaster, judge or king, with all the human frailties and vices, appeasable by worship.

But they do, and then insist everybody must worship THEIR petty old tyrant and punish those who don't even if they are "better" people just for the sake of it - for love not from fear.

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Randall
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posted July 23, 2014 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A positive spin on that would be God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.

quote:
Originally posted by rajji:
The greatest judgment God can send on His people is letting them have their own way. - Warren Wiersbe

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Ellynlvx
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posted July 24, 2014 12:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ellynlvx     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
A positive spin on that would be God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.


I have found this to be True so many times, that I did a complete turn-around on things that I asked for.

Well-Spoken.

(Ask for Happiness, and you can't go wrong!)

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Randall
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posted July 27, 2014 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Garth Brooks has a song about it.

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Ellynlvx
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posted July 27, 2014 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ellynlvx     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All I remember was something Awesome, Rolling Thunder, was it?

There was a movie we used to watch.

I think my Son cavaged on it a few months ago.

It was on right after Gallagher and that early Schwarzenegger flick (Commando?)

Think it was called "Mr. Destiny."

Could have been an extended episode of that Rod Serling show.

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Randall
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posted July 28, 2014 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's one of his.

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Randall
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posted July 29, 2014 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Twilight Zone?

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