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Author Topic:   The (Three) Wise Men...
TheTruthIsTheWay11
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posted July 14, 2015 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheTruthIsTheWay11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wanted to share with everyone a post I made on this Facebook Group I'm a part of:

Who were The (Three) Wise Men in The Bible???

The purpose of this post is to find out who The (Three) Wise Men REALLY were.

To begin, we'll start with a brief summary of what happens in The Bible. In The Bible, during the supposed birth of Jesus, men travel from the east to Jerusalem. The men are described as "wise men". Upon their arrival, they begin asking the people of Jerusalem where they could find the "King of the Jews". They tell them that they have seen a star, which led them to the approximate location of Jesus (Jerusalem). King Herod heard of this and became worried. He gathered the chief priests and scribes, attempting to discover where The Messiah would be born. They all said that Bethlehem was the location, according to prophecy. King Herod then called forth these men, asking them the time in which this star appeared, and eventually sending them to Bethlehem to find Jesus. His instructions were to find Jesus and then send word back to him, so that he could "come and worship him too". The men go to Bethlehem, and follow the star until they see it above the resting place of Jesus. With joy, they enter the building (which is translated as "house", but to be fair, can also be translated as "dwelling", hence the word choice here) and bow down to Jesus, upon seeing him with his mother. They present him with gifts of Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh. Later on, they go to sleep and have a dream that they should not return to King Herod. The Bible attributes this dream to "God". Shortly after their departure, an Angel appears to Joseph in a dream, telling him to take Mary and Jesus to Egypt. The Angel claims that King Herod wants to kill Jesus. This implies that The (Three) Wise Men were to go back to their own country (The Bible actually uses the word "country" when describing this), without returning to King Herod, in order to prevent an attack on Jesus. Although there is no specific number mentioned for the number of Wise Men, the number of gifts given (three) is traditionally seen to imply that there were only three of them. *Summarized from Matthew 2:1-13*

The story is a nice little story that you would hear in Church every Christmas. But...who are The (Three) Wise Men? What makes them wise, in the first place? How could a star reveal to them the birthplace of a supposed Messiah? There are so many questions, with few answers, if you use the traditional interpretations of The Christian Church. A typical Christian answer may say, "God revealed information to them regarding The Messiah, and then used the star as an easy and visible way to guide them there". Well, that sounds like a great response, until you realize that they were sent to the wrong city! Why would they be in Jerusalem if Jesus was to be born in Bethlehem? Furthermore, these men were obviously not Jews, or else they would have already known that Bethlehem was the correct city (as the chief priests and scribes had proper knowledge of this, and would have shared this during Sabbath services). So we're in a bit of a dilemma here: Either God is a liar OR The (Three) Wise Men weren't Jews OR BOTH. Let's focus on the "OR BOTH", shall we?
The Greek word used to translate "wise men" in The Bible is "magos". If we look in a Lexicon/Concordance for this word, we can find this as the definition (taken from http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/magos.html, the definition may vary slightly based on the source you look at):
1. a magus
a. the name given by the Babylonians (Chaldeans), Medes, Persians, and others, to the wise men, teachers, priests, physicians, astrologers, seers, interpreters of dreams, augers, soothsayers, sorcerers etc.
b. the oriental wise men (astrologers) who, having discovered by the rising of a remarkable star that the Messiah had just been born, came to Jerusalem to worship him
c. a false prophet and sorcerer

So, let's get this straight....two out of the three definitions include "astrologer" in them. All three definitions include something Esoteric/Occult. The (Three) Wise Men went to Jerusalem because they followed a star. Is any of this starting to make more sense to people now?
Another important thing to mention is that The Church has hidden the truth in front of our eyes, for such a long time. Whether done intentionally or unintentionally, I do not know. But considering how obvious this information is, with just a little bit of studying, it is incredibly hard to believe that this came about by mistake. Perhaps the modern leaders of The Church are unaware of this, but leaders of the past have been known to have a desire to control the masses, and the coverup for this story would have been necessary for the survival of Christianity. What people don't realize is that Christianity has secretly revealed the true definition of "wise men" for years. It did so by referring to these men as "The Biblical Magi" ("Magi" being the plural of "Magus").

To understand more about who these men were, let's look at what a Magus/Magi actually is. According to the Oxford Dictionary, the definition of Magus is "a member of a priestly caste of ancient Persia; a sorcerer". If one were to research the history of Persia, one would find that the main Religion practiced at the time was Zoroastrianism (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/zoroastrian/history/persia_1.shtml). Therefore, a Magus would have been a Zoroastrian Priest. Other dictionary definitions for Magus include "Zoroastrian Priest" instead of just "Priest' (Dictionary.com or the Wikipedia entry for "Magi" for examples). Zoroaster, the founder of Zoroastrianism, was a Magician and an Astrologer (among other titles). He heavily influenced those areas, and became known as a legend among the Greeks (http://www.britannica.com/topic/Zoroastrianism). It would then make sense that his followers would be involved in similar practices, and further study of Persia can find that they have connections to Astrology (they were known for their discovery of the "Royal Stars"), for example. While it is still debated (and hard due to the lack of sources to review), it is possible that early Zoroastrian texts illustrate Zoroastrians and Zoroastrian Priests using Astrology, which wouldn't be surprising. Depending on the definition you use, magic can be seen as a dead giveaway.

It is because of this that King Herod slaughtered all children two and under. He used the Astrology of the Wise Men to determine that this timeframe would have been the time that Jesus would have been born. That is, if you take this as a historical record of what happened. (The Bible even admits this in Matthew 2:16, remember that the time he asked for was in regards to the star)

Yet, The Bible claims to be against Magic/Sorcery and things that are against the Hebrew/Christian God (Deuteronomy 18:10-12, Leviticus 19:31, Exodus 22:18, Galatians 5:19-21). Remember the commandment "Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me"? It's a little strange that the Christian God is teaming up with the Zoroastrian God!

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mirage29
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posted July 14, 2015 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheTruthIsTheWay11:
...Remember the commandment "Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me"? It's a little strange that the Christian God is teaming up with the Zoroastrian God!

Wonderful post, TheTruthIsTheWay11!!

There are different ways 'to Find' God... The Truly Priestly-People are those who DIRECTLY connect and Know ~*Him*~ (Spirit in ALL the different states of Manifestation of I AM!!)

People can try to understand with their little mind (the stuck-religious) or the HigherSoul Mind... Within which it is Possible to have EXPERIENCES with this Holographic Expressive Being of LOVE (*GOD*)-- which and 'Who' is intermingled in every single solitary molecule atom matrix.

GOD Is Love.... He who abides in LOVE, Abides in God, And *GOD* in him..[you-me~Us!]

When you See it, you completely can instantly-REALize God in your OWN Spirit!
*God* is a LIVING Essence Being and dwells throughout every single cosmic-thing. *God* is existing through your flesh-body's consciousness. You can experience being Intimately Tied with *HIM/God* as being In-me, In-Other, and at-all-times Omni-Present, Omniscient!. ETERNAL One Oneness.

(music) They Followed His Star (BrooklynTabChoir, lyrics) [4:40] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBObzRrZCYc

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juniperb
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posted July 14, 2015 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
moving along to Divine Diversities

------------------
Partial truth~the seeds of wisdom~can be found in many places...The seeds of wisdom are contained in all scriptures ever written… especially in art, music, and poetry and, above all, in Nature.

Linda Goodman

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the7thsphere
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posted July 14, 2015 08:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TheTruthIsTheWay11, have you seen http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/pageone.htg/pageone.htm ?

In a nutshell, the planets formed a perfect "Star of David" configuration (heliocentric chart) right around the time of Christ's birth (the beginning of the Age of Pisces) -- and this only occurs once every 40 million years or so. (I would say, at those odds, that the timing is too meaningful to have been a coincidence.)

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TheTruthIsTheWay11
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posted July 16, 2015 02:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheTruthIsTheWay11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*Removing double post*

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TheTruthIsTheWay11
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posted July 16, 2015 02:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheTruthIsTheWay11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
Wonderful post, TheTruthIsTheWay11!!

There are different ways 'to Find' God... The Truly Priestly-People are those who DIRECTLY connect and Know ~*Him*~ (Spirit in ALL the different states of Manifestation of I AM!!)

People can try to understand with their little mind (the stuck-religious) or the HigherSoul Mind... Within which it is Possible to have EXPERIENCES [b]with this Holographic Expressive Being of LOVE (*GOD*)-- which and 'Who' is intermingled in every single solitary molecule atom matrix.

GOD Is Love.... He who abides in LOVE, Abides in God, And *GOD* in him..[you-me~Us!]

When you See it, you completely can instantly-REALize God in your OWN Spirit!
*God* is a LIVING Essence Being and dwells throughout every single cosmic-thing. *God* is existing through your flesh-body's consciousness. You can experience being Intimately Tied with *HIM/God* as being In-me, In-Other, and at-all-times Omni-Present, Omniscient!. ETERNAL One Oneness.

(music) They Followed His Star (BrooklynTabChoir, lyrics) [4:40] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBObzRrZCYc [/B]


Glad you enjoyed it!

But as a Pantheist I would say that The Universe/God is more than just Love. I would say that it includes Love but that it encompasses anything and everything that you or someone else can think of. The Universe is infinite.

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TheTruthIsTheWay11
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posted July 16, 2015 02:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheTruthIsTheWay11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheTruthIsTheWay11:

*Removing a double post* (I like the second one better since I had to rephrase it...the posting system wasn't working for me so I had to re-do the whole thing).

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TheTruthIsTheWay11
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posted July 16, 2015 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheTruthIsTheWay11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*Removing another double post*

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TheTruthIsTheWay11
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posted July 16, 2015 02:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheTruthIsTheWay11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the7thsphere:
TheTruthIsTheWay11, have you seen http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/pageone.htg/pageone.htm ?

In a nutshell, the planets formed a perfect "Star of David" configuration (heliocentric chart) right around the time of Christ's birth (the beginning of the Age of Pisces) -- and this only occurs once every 40 million years or so. (I would say, at those odds, that the timing is too meaningful to have been a coincidence.)


Thanks for the link. Interesting. I haven't seen that before.

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Randall
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posted July 17, 2015 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There were more than three. It was a whole caravan.

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Eirlys
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posted July 18, 2015 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eirlys     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
There were more than three. It was a whole caravan.

It had to have been... definitely!


The expositions I've read make clear that it wasn't

the Where so much that was important, as the

Who-- that is, the public acknowledgement

of the Christ by the most respected members of society

at that time-- the Magi (the magicians, the astrologers or

'learned class'), according to Matthew Henry.

Since Herod murdered children two and under, when he learned

the Magi began traveling to see the child (when they saw

the star indicating his birth), we can assume the journey

was long, and the men were taken seriously.
---

"The true order, as given in the Revised Version,

lays the emphasis on the office, and in a

subordinate degree on the home of the strangers

- Wise Men from the East came. This translation

also hints at the full meaning of the verb (παρεγένοντο ,

of which the connotation is not of the place a

quo, but of the publicity of their appearance

at the place in quo (cf. Matthew 3:1).

Wise Men (Μάγοι ; "astromyens" (Wickliffe); "rages" (Rheims)....

These Magi spontaneously submit to the Babe."
---

Eta: forgot the link


Exp., Matt. 2:1

------------------
Pessimism leads to weakness, optimism to power. -- william james

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Randall
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posted July 19, 2015 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The journey also took a couple of years.

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Randall
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posted July 20, 2015 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, some scholars say Jesus was actually a toddler upon their arrival.

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Randall
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posted July 21, 2015 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Which sort of dispels the manger scene.

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TheTruthIsTheWay11
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posted July 21, 2015 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheTruthIsTheWay11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Which sort of dispels the manger scene.

Yeah. That's why I mentioned why people think there were three of them, and tried to write it as "(three)". It would have presumably taken a few years as well. Hence the reason why King Herod wanted all children 2 and under slaughtered. So yes, I agree with everything you said there.

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Randall
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posted July 25, 2015 02:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheTruthIsTheWay11:
Yeah. That's why I mentioned why people think there were three of them, and tried to write it as "(three)". It would have presumably taken a few years as well. Hence the reason why King Herod wanted all children 2 and under slaughtered. So yes, I agree with everything you said there.

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Randall
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posted July 26, 2015 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A lot of people don't realize it took so long to reach Bethlehem.

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mirage29
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posted July 26, 2015 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have some notes on that. I'll try to dig up the refs from my notes this week (Lord willin').

The 'Baby' was born in Bethelehem, but the 'Child' was visited a few years later.

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Randall
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posted July 27, 2015 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep!

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Randall
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posted July 28, 2015 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Like it was mentioned, Herod was looking for a toddler.

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mirage29
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posted August 07, 2015 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Found my storage bin, and notes! (from when I was in Bible School long time ago)

New Testatment Survey I - Fall 1988
Rev. Jane Austin, VIBTC

NTS:2b, pg8
'THE BIRTH OF JESUS' created a Mark in Time.
B.C. and A.D. ... Anno Domino, in the Year of the Lord.

BIRTH IN BETHLEHEM
All preparations had been made...

Galatians 4:4 (NIV) 4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.

Things were precise and ready for God's revelation, socially, economically, morally, religiously, etc.

Caesar: Conquered and united the world with roads! You could go anywhere without problems-- spread of the Gospel.

Alexander The Great: Made Greek language the #1 Language. They had to ALL speak Greek.


NTS:4a, pg3

TWO ACCOUNTS OF NATIVITY
Matthew 2: 2,11 and Luke 2:12 supplement each other.

Quote/
Matthew 2:1-12 (NIV) THE VISIT OF THE MAGI
... 1After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem 2and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."
... 3When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where The Christ was to be born. 5"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:
... ...6" 'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.' "

... 7Then Herod called The Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."

... 9After they had heard the King, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was.

10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. "On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshipped him. Then they opened their treasure and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.
/endQuote

The magi came some months AFTER birth of baby. Jesus was a "child" when they visited.

The shepherds saw the newborn "baby."

Luke 2:12 (NIV) 12 This will be a sign to you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger."


THE MAGI were a priestly class from Persia, specializing in interpreting dreams and the supernatural. They were devoted seekers after the truth.

If you are a devoted seeker of truth, you WILL Know! You will find that the day will come when you know the truth!

GIFTS (symbolic):
Gold (representing His Kingship);
Frankincense (representing His Priesthood... perfume(fragrance) used ONLY in the Temple);
Myrrh (representing His Death, embalming of the dead').

Mary and Joseph were a very poor family. ...when they SOLD these gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh, the family could flee to Egypt and be looked-after until it was safe to return. [Herod ordered the killing of all first-born males, 2 years and less.]


The scribes and chief priests, living only five miles away, knew but never bothered to seek him out to see him.

After Herod died, Aukalais reigned, and ordered 3,000 killed-- among killed were those priests and rabbis.

Nothing was done without a purpose. [Age 2 years and under were ordered kill... not Newborns.]

From a dream (given to Joseph), the family fled to Egypt for safety.

(song added, ...for humor! )
(music) We May Never Pass This Way Again (Seals & Crofts, lyrics) [4:19] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd6zYQPCgsc

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Randall
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posted December 16, 2015 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
Found my storage bin, and notes! (from when I was in Bible School long time ago)

New Testatment Survey I - Fall 1988
Rev. Jane Austin, VIBTC

NTS:2b, pg8
'THE BIRTH OF JESUS' created a Mark in Time.
B.C. and A.D. ... Anno Domino, in the Year of the Lord.

BIRTH IN BETHLEHEM
All preparations had been made...

Galatians 4:4 (NIV) 4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.

Things were precise and ready for God's revelation, socially, economically, morally, religiously, etc.

Caesar: Conquered and united the world with roads! You could go anywhere without problems-- spread of the Gospel.

Alexander The Great: Made Greek language the #1 Language. They had to ALL speak Greek.


NTS:4a, pg3

TWO ACCOUNTS OF NATIVITY
Matthew 2: 2,11 and Luke 2:12 supplement each other.

Quote/
Matthew 2:1-12 (NIV) THE VISIT OF THE MAGI
... 1After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem 2and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."
... 3When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where The Christ was to be born. 5"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:
... ...6" 'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.' "

... 7Then Herod called The Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."

... 9After they had heard the King, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was.

10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. "On coming to the [b]house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshipped him. Then they opened their treasure and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.
/endQuote

The magi came some months AFTER birth of baby. Jesus was a "child" when they visited.

The shepherds saw the newborn "baby."

Luke 2:12 (NIV) 12 This will be a sign to you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger."


THE MAGI were a priestly class from Persia, specializing in interpreting dreams and the supernatural. They were devoted seekers after the truth.

If you are a devoted seeker of truth, you WILL Know! You will find that the day will come when you know the truth!

GIFTS (symbolic):
Gold (representing His Kingship);
Frankincense (representing His Priesthood... perfume(fragrance) used ONLY in the Temple);
Myrrh (representing His Death, embalming of the dead').

Mary and Joseph were a very poor family. ...when they SOLD these gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh, the family could flee to Egypt and be looked-after until it was safe to return. [Herod ordered the killing of all first-born males, 2 years and less.]


The scribes and chief priests, living only five miles away, knew but never bothered to seek him out to see him.

After Herod died, Aukalais reigned, and ordered 3,000 killed-- among killed were those priests and rabbis.

Nothing was done without a purpose. [Age 2 years and under were ordered kill... not Newborns.]

From a dream (given to Joseph), the family fled to Egypt for safety.

(song added, ...for humor! )
(music) We May Never Pass This Way Again (Seals & Crofts, lyrics) [4:19] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd6zYQPCgsc [/B]


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Randall
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posted December 17, 2015 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for clearing that up.

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mirage29
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posted December 18, 2015 08:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Check out this vid! It has a great graphic of a triple-conjunction forming The Star that became so brilliant and bright. Led the Magi on their path... Is not the "factual" story. But the POINT is that 'this baby' was born in a kind of obscurity (if you can call Magi sent by spirit-forces on a hunt to find you, as 'obscure'), and he grew up to start one of the largest moves of Love and Peace that this Age has seen.

....

(music) The Star of Bethlehem (Benjamin Britten, a Scottish Lullaby Op. 28; lyrics) [1:15] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1vIOuklo98

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Randall
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posted December 19, 2015 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've always wondered about that "star." Thought it might have been a comet.

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