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Author Topic:   Terminator Trinity
Lei_Kuei
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posted October 27, 2017 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is just a little... Speculative Theological Thought Experiment that I cooked up recently while pondering the Original Time Line of the Terminator Franchise and aspects of whatís known as the Predestination Paradox...

And for this to even work as a Theory you have to be willing to Entertain a few Spiritual like possibilities such as Reincarnation & Strange Journeys of The Soul!

[Also Adding Here : Relevent Links/Info (Possible Required Reading)]

http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Predestination_paradox
http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Kyle_Reese
http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Sarah_Connor


[Spoilers for Terminator 1, 2 & 3 present in this post]

However... come with me if you want to see something crazy!

............What IF the Kyle Reese who travels back in time to 1984 from 2029 was actually a Future Incarnation of Sarah Connor... A Sarah Connor who either during or shortly after the Nuclear Apocalypse of 1997 was killed (or died beforehand according to T3)...

In this scenario, with Kyle being born around 2003-2008 (depending on which Timeline you want to use) this leave plenty of space available for the Dead Sarah of this Timeline to be reborn (whether knowingly or unknowingly) as the Baby who would eventually become Kyle Reese...! The same Kyle who will not ONLY travel back to essentially save HERSELF in 1984, but who also falls in love with Sarah via a Narrative and Picture that John Connor shared with Kyle during the Resistance War.

In fact Kyle explains to Sarah that his whole motivation for even volunteering to travel back to 1984 is because he was so in-love with her!

But in MY scenario itís deeper than THAT... Kyle is actually in-love with his Past Self (Female Version of Himself) and perhaps itís this connection that was truly driving him all along (even unknowingly)...

So now our Kyle/Sarah-Soul from 2029 is back in 1984... (Terminator 1) Manages to indeed protect Sarah from the Terminator Assassin (as of the Predestination Paradox) though dies in the process... BUT... not BEFORE impregnating Sarah via the first time he has Sex with her (and was previously a Virgin)... leading to the other Terminator Paradox of Kyle actually being the Father of the same John Connor who sends him back in time in the first place!

You think thatís crazy... get this! What IF... while dead in the 1984 timeline... The Soul of Dead Kyle Reese is either pulled into (via the Predestination Paradox) or a choice of his own Awareness to become the John Connor unborn-child gestating in the Body of Sarah (His Past Female Self)...

In that Scenario you now have what I would class as a Science Fiction Version of a Perfect Theological Trinity (3 Entities in One)! Sarah, Kyle, & John are ALL the same Singular Soul which is caught in a Predestination Paradox of the Self!

Is perhaps what we think of the Immaculate Conception in a Religious sense, actually an Analogy for a Time Travelling God/Jesus also caught in a Predestination Paradox?

-=-=-=-

^^..... I wonder what Skynet would make of that Image and itís Own Predicament given the Paradox


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mirage29
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posted October 27, 2017 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Delightful, Lei_Kuei!!

I'm going to have to do the *ahem* Required Reading first...

I like your God/Jesus Trinity graphic.

STORY .....
Reminded me of a time when I was 7 or 8 years old.
Our family was visiting extendeds who had rented a large vacation cabin on the shores of a lake up north.

I was in the placid waters, up to my neck/chin. My little feet traveled and felt the silt-y sandy bottom, objects explored with foot/feet along the way... Not seeing what I felt, but imagination conjured the familiar.

As I slowly cruised along in shoulder-deep waters, my left foot discovered a slim metal pipe. My foot explored it for a bit. Forwards, back, surrounds. My mind could picture how it lay, and connected up to the cabin-area.

Suddenly.... I spontaneously started thinking about the Holy Trinity.

"The 3-God in ONE".

.... And in a cosmically weird and strange moment, I "Got" it. I "Understood" without needing the words to be present for it. And that Moment hung with me in a virtual-cloud-way... no words. Just "presence" of what had been Downloaded.

I spent the rest of the weekend (and days) IN that nice wordless Cloud Reveal/revelation.

So... Time-wise...
Either, the school year had already BEGUN, or, this had been a weekend away DURING the start of school? (US Labor Day weekend?)

I was enrolled in a catholic elementary parochial school.
The classroom was thick with kids.
I sat all the way over on the Teacher's right, row next to the windows/bookshelves, first or second seat.
The nun walked back and forth in front of us, in her full habit, acting so nunly~nice.

She asked the boys and girls,
"WHO can explain The Trinity to me?"

Well!!!!!, like, o.m.g. *lightbulb full-on*
"Just happened" that I had personally been cogitating this VERY thing, steeped deeply in this WHOLE concept for days it seems!!!

My little arm and hand very Happily shot straight-up in the air, soooo glad to be able to divulge, to Deliver what I had inside me. Ready to start the big conversation about 'what was IN me', about what had been sparked/revealed/downloaded and Clear to my excited soul?????

She looks at me.
Countenance changed.
She changed.
She got realll MEAN!!!!!!!
Her voice snapped in an awful-coarse tone, and she harshly retorts to me -- (and all in the class, to my humiliation!!)--, that NOBODY KNOWS THE MYSTERY behind THE TRINITY.

End of convo.
Shut-downnnn... wounded!!!

My mind had been shocked.. and it drifted on to other topics a while, as she resumed her paces, trying to 'explain' that (permanently?) unknown mystery.

Sometimes??? I wonder what could have happened had I had a spiritually aware and enlightened Knowing Teacher when I was at vulnerable tender moments of age. ....

I would have been interested in whether or not I COULD perhaps have been able to put words to it--- words for 'what' I captured in that mystical coveted moment'.


1 Corinthians 13:13
And now these 'three' things remain:
Faith, Hope, and Love.
And the Greatest of these is LOVE.

(music) The Greatest of These (symphonic band, soloists, and children's choir; lyrics based on 1 Corinthians "Love" chapter) [5:43] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giou1idPFN0

Found above song.
The scripture they're presenting has been coming before me all week, in small sudden ways.... like people seeing angel numbers, looping numbers.

Thing is.... The kids in the choir? ..
When I was THEIR age, my mind was engaged in thoughts about God a lot... (Little Saggi Ascendant??)

Nature made SUCH an impression on me. The tops of rows of pine trees against the golds and ultramarine blues of a sunset.... These things got etched in my memory, and thrill me in the DEEPEST way, wordlessly.

The VERY FIRST "true" revelation I'd ever caught, where I had WORDS to match virtual-download to... was that sudden moment of release/relief that "God Is Love" ....
I was in my (latter?) tween years.
Still gets my eyes a bit watery thinking of it.

So REAL.... and Surreal.

- http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13&version=NIV

"1 Corinthians 13" {The Love Chapter}
New International Version (NIV)

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels,
but do not have love,
I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

2†If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have a faith that can move mountains,
but do not have love,
I am nothing.

3†If I give all I possess to the poor
and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,
but do not have love,
I gain nothing.

4†Love is patient,
love is kind.
It does not envy,
it does not boast,
it is not proud.

5†It does not dishonor others,
it is not self-seeking,
it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs.

6†Love does not delight in evil
but rejoices with the truth.

7†It always protects,
always trusts,
always hopes,
always perseveres.

8†Love never fails.
But where there are prophecies, they will cease;
where there are tongues, they will be stilled;
where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

9†For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10†but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

11†When I was a child,
I talked like a child,
I thought like a child,
I reasoned like a child.
When I became a man,
I put the ways of childhood behind me.

12†[b]For now we see only a reflection
as in a mirror;
then we shall see face to face.
Now I know in part;
then I shall know fully,
even as I am fully known.

13†And now these three remain:
faith, hope and love.
But
the greatest of these is LOVE.

So.... Didn't mean to pull things TOO off-topic! LOL.

There IS a TRINITY .... even in Terminator....
it all distills down to Love
and
Acts of Love.

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PixieJane
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posted October 28, 2017 02:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
My little arm and hand very Happily shot straight-up in the air, soooo glad to be able to divulge, to Deliver what I had inside me. Ready to start the big conversation about 'what was IN me', about what had been sparked/revealed/downloaded and Clear to my excited soul?????

She looks at me.
Countenance changed.
She changed.
She got realll MEAN!!!!!!!
Her voice snapped in an awful-coarse tone, and she [b]harshly
retorts to me -- (and all in the class, to my humiliation!!)--, that NOBODY KNOWS THE MYSTERY behind THE TRINITY.

End of convo.
Shut-downnnn... wounded!!!

My mind had been shocked.. and it drifted on to other topics a while, as she resumed her paces, trying to 'explain' that (permanently?) unknown mystery.

Sometimes??? I wonder what could have happened had I had a spiritually aware and enlightened Knowing Teacher when I was at vulnerable tender moments of age. ....

I would have been interested in whether or not I COULD perhaps have been able to put words to it--- words for 'what' I captured in that mystical coveted moment'.[/B]


And people wonder kids hate school. Teachers like that are reason # 39

I suspect an enlightened and spiritually aware teacher would not have been allowed, because they would try to make improvements which would upset the school and community.

But yeah, it would be interesting.

And that said, I'm reminded of an apocryphal story, officially a joke (but sounds like something that could really happen):

A kindergarten teacher was observing her classroom of children while they drew pictures. Occasionally, she would walk around the room to see each childís work.

"What are you drawing?" she asked one little girl who was working diligently at her desk.

The girl replied, "Iím drawing God."

The teacher paused and said, "But no one knows what God looks like."

The little girl replied, "They will in a minute."

If a true story, I'd LOVE to see what she drew.

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PixieJane
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posted October 28, 2017 02:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So Sarah = Mother of God (and Mary seems at least as worshiped as Jesus, perhaps because a need for a feminine divinity is as important to the human psyche as a masculine one--and interesting, btw, how the sun and moon tend to be both siblings and lovers of the opposite sex in myths across the world, but the in some the sun is male, in others female, but I don't want to digress too far here).

Kyle Reese then becomes God to impregnate the virgin Sarah/Mary to give birth to himself in the form of Jesus that saves the world. Yeah, that actually works. And yet it's Reese that dies for our sins, so to speak. But as they're flowing into each other, 3 in one, it can still work, and we are talking about paradox. Jesus/God isn't really supposed to be seen as separate even though Jesus does pray to his Father.

I looked up some name meanings. Sarah means lady/princess/noblewoman (and was the name of the wife of Abraham, and thus "matriarch of the Jewish people," and also Abraham's sister!). For what it's worth, Sarah is also the protagonist of Labyrinth. (And cut her hair, age her a few years, dress her in tight leather, and she looks like Trinity, with a similar power to bring Neo back as she did the creatures of the Labyrinth in her own room! And come to think of it both Sarah and Trinity seem to switch back and forth between two worlds, one presumed imaginary. ).

John Connor...JC (Jesus Christ!). We also have the prophet John, the forerunner of Jesus.

Connor is Irish, Kyle is Scottish.

And Reese is surreal. Gods, LK, Behind the Names has a section for RWBY! Since I don't think anyone else here is into that I'll send it privately. For everyone else, RWBY is rich in mythic and perhaps even Jungian imagery. (And Ozpin has just become a boy named Oscar, though they're also distinct for the time being.)

Anyway, getting late, those are just some immediate thoughts.

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mirage29
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posted October 28, 2017 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
P.J. ... EXACTLY!! Touche

I like your breakdown and analysis too...
JC John Connor??? omg. You're right!!

Sara.... she kicks ass!!!

I loved terminator...
Thought that people should watch Terminator #2 FIRST,
then watch #1, and #2.
Makes MUCH clearer sense.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted October 28, 2017 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Growing up, and having to attend a Very Roman Catholic School(s) I can somewhat empathize with what you experienced Mirage, though thankfully mine were not run by Nuns or Brothers... even still, the Religion Aspects were Very regimented along with having to Pray several times per day for some 8 years... Gods, that was a heck of a lot of Praying for a soon to be Atheist (back then).

And questioning any of the Religious Texts Books we were to use as our handbooks was heavily frowned upon, pretty much a case of Sit Down, Shut Up and Pray...

-=-=-=-=-=-=

That Trinity Image I posted was one I saw during a search and was hosted on the Vatican Radio Site (official), and yet when I went to post such yesterday they had since removed the link... how strange!

Indeed, as PJ said, the missing Feminine Aspect has been assigned to Mary in the Christian Mythology given the Importance of the Female Archetype... (Yet REMOVED, from the Trinity Graphic where Spirit is placed instead)... Though Iíd have to look deeper into whether Christian Mythology has designated Spirit as Feminine...?

The parallels that you mentioned are Really Awesome, as they were not at the forefront of my mind when I was thinking of the Terminator Trinity, but seeing someone else being able to point to the Mythic Similarities makes it all the more interesting!

And such has me thinking about a number of other connections related to the names you mentioned (Pixie), as in say firstly... Connor from Buffy also being a Variant Hero of a Different Universe... and raised in a type of Hellscape which you could say Parallels the Resistance War of John Connor in the Terminator Series?
http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Connor

Though sticking closer to Terminator, I canít help but feel you could place SkyNet in the Centre Position of the Trinity Graphic and it would very much work given posted scenario scenario...

Anyhow, more later... on some other Connections I see in the mix based upon what you shared! Also, cool about Rwby!


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You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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Randall
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posted October 29, 2017 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting parallels.

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Randall
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posted October 30, 2017 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Especially, JC.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted November 08, 2017 03:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:

^^..... I wonder what Skynet would make of that Image and itís Own Predicament given the Paradox


I wonder indeed....


Interestingly, I also noticed that the Logo for Cyberdyne Systems (The Fictional Company Responsible for Creating Skynet (and subsequently the Terminators)... uses a Trinity-type Design in it's Logo....

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You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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Randall
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posted November 10, 2017 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Coincidence?

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Randall
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posted November 18, 2017 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Subconscious!

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Randall
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posted February 01, 2018 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Randall
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posted February 17, 2018 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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Randall
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posted August 21, 2018 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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Randall
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posted August 22, 2018 07:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They are rebooting the first movie, and Linda Hamilton is in it!

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Randall
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posted September 24, 2018 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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